kab21

Let's hope that Lewis doesn't have night blindness then. Garbe played well in the daytime GCL league and then had to start playing night games. But really it is a pointless argument since rk ball stats don't mean anything unless you completely flop.

It is just one of those things where 2B is a deep position and the typical teams that would trade for a veteran have decent or better 2B. If you go back 2-3 years then there would be a larger market or in a couple of years there would be a larger market. This is just the reality that anyone that suggests 'we need to trade Dozier' has to accept. If you trade him now then you most likely won't get a decent value for him.

This is a bit extreme. Dozier's trade value problem is that nobody needs a 2B so they won't pay what would be a fair price. Average (or better) 2B (with track record and HR's) with no injury concerns on a friendly contract are worth more than Littell/Enns.

I think Kintzler and Escobar (possibly Gimenez) get dealt

I think the more difficult question is 'If a MI isn't dealt then what'? Right now the Twins have a great problem to have. They have too many good MI's although Polanco hasn't necessarily played well this year. Escobar and Adrianza are almost elite at the backup level and I don't think many would have a problem with either starting especially if MI became more of a rotation between the 3 players (and eventually Gordon). I think if Dozier is dealt (unfortunately the 2B trade market is poor) then you sign Escobar to an extension (like 3/25 starting in 2018) to stabilize the MI for a few years. He can either be a great backup or he (or Adrianza) can start if Polanco/Gordon struggles. lol - What do you expect when a power hitter is hitting leadoff? The thing with Dozier is that he has always been notoriously streaky. He hasn't had his hot streak yet.

Exactly. His ERA is phenomenal but the rest of the stats are merely good. His FB also barely tops 90. He certainly could have MLB success though. And I think it is almost guaranteed that he gets 5 starts with the Twins this year. I am interested in seeing what he can do. Enns wasn't just included because of possible 40 man roster issues this offseason. He was probably included because they had take somebody off the 40 man right now by trading for Garcia.

So you ignore the other picks made? Those are draft picks also.

Why only exclude 2017? Are you expecting the other picks to have already produced a league average starter (your measuring stick above)? Like I said before, your expectations seem to high.

Yes, this is the odd thing and what gives me pause about Littell (still a fantastic trade). The numbers and the age indicate that he should be higher but something is holding back rankers (not real scouts).

This seems like an extraordinary deal. Especially considering what the Twins gave up. Huascar Ynoa has upside but he is looking like a longshot right now. I feel like I should temper my expectations a little though. Littell's numbers suggest that he should be better than a 20-ish prospect but perhaps that is due to the strength of the Yankees system. And it is possible that Enns becomes the better of the two. The best reason to like this trade is that Enns is an option this year and Littell could be up sometime next year. The Twins just acquired two legit prospects that likely get rotation tryouts at some point. This is brilliant. And here is what made that happen. The Twins are picking up the cash in the deal and getting better prospects in the end. Who would have thought that was possible?

Very few teams can fill both their lineup and rotation just from the draft even if drafting high. They made some mistakes but every team does. I think your expectations for draft success are a little too high.

Lets move one of those guys up to AAA. Probably not. Enns is 26 and has done good but not great yet. Littell is doing great in AA at 21. Enns could be better than most of the #4/5 pitchers that the Twins have cycled through this year though and I expect to see him up within the next month.

He signed for 100K so that really isn't the case here.

So you have two complaints but don't take into account the other successes? Getting Berrios in supplemental round has been awesome. Hitting on a few lower round picks makes up for the two misses that you are focused on. I wouldn't rate their drafts as A+ but I think they are still in the very good range.

Nobody is going to have a 100% hit rate even in the top six. They missed with Stewart but pick Gonsalves in the 4th (and Garver/Granite later). It could have been better but I am not unhappy about that draft.

This would be a nice trade since I think he is a better prospect than the one traded away. He signed for 100K (max without affecting the signing cap). This shows us that they are selling on this season but I am not so sure that they will sell on next season. Maybe Kintzler is on the move. Maybe Escobar (versatile and a surplus position).

Okay, a 34 yr old with poor peripherals is going to get a haul. Oh, wait you didn't say a haul of prospects. I didn't say bottom prospects either. Ervin's value is a decent prospect or two but nothing that significantly changes anything. Why continue to use this terrible comparison? The Yankees traded top tier players that were actually going to be FA's for actual top prospects (multiple top 25 and top 50 prospects). The Twins don't have those possibilities. Their trade candidates are signed for next year and they are fetching borderline top 100 prospects that may not be up in 2018. If Twins had players like the Yankees did last year then I would fully support a trade. If Ervin was getting some of these fantasy packages that some on this site think he will get while at the same time expecting him to be awful next year then I am on board.

So you are saying he isn't untouchable? That is exactly what I would trade him for. If you are set on keeping Nick Gordon to play SS then Lewis is the one big trade chip that you have to make it happen. At some point the Twins will need to make a choice on how to acquire starting pitching. They will either need to commit BIG money to a 30 year old FA or trade a really good prospect to make it happen. Neither is easy to do but this team will go nowhere without adding pitching. Make a choice. Or do both since more than 1 pitcher is likely needed.

No, Lewis isn't tradeable according to the rules. Untouchable means something else. At least to me. I think if you lurked on other team message boards then they wouldn't put nearly as high of a value on Ervin Santana as this site does. And most likely the prospects discussed are probably where his value is close to.

This thread (and rumors if you believe them) should tell us that many are greatly overestimating the return for Ervin Santana. That has been my sticking point all along with an Ervin trade. We likely aren't getting a top 50-ish prospect for him. The Twins shouldn't be trading him for a top 100-ish prospect. Just keep him. Why is there talk of trading Buxton for Sonny Gray when most on the board are shooting down Gordon+ for Gray? That makes no sense. If anyone promoting a Buxton/Gray trade now were against a Gordon+/Gray trade then you have some explaining to do. Why is Royce Lewis untouchable? I think that is the better move (patience) than trading Gordon now for a good starting pitcher. The Twins window is opening now. Bring up Gordon next year and trade the player that is probably 4+ years away for a very good SP.

Tell that to everyone that makes an argument to trade him and then says he has already fallen off the cliff based on 2+ months of stats.

But he is a fringe 5th starter according to many on here.

I sure would feel silly if I had insisted that 'he is better than Dozier right now'. No doubt the Twins stick with Polanco. The question will be whether or not he is a starter or not. Make him earn his starting spot back if he is being outplayed. It should be noted but Nick Gordon has cooled off considerably and he still has a fairly high K rate for a non power hitter. I didn't say Gordon doesn't have power but he isn't a slugger and a 22% K rate is pretty high.

But reverse the tables. Who is making that trade in the other direction? This is something that needs to be done every time a trade is proposed. Would I accept this trade as the other team? FWIW - Justus Sheffield (a mentioned player) is in the top 100 prospects while Romero and Gonsalves are outside of the top 100. That could change in the new offseason rankings but it looks like Sheffield is a better prospect.

The problem is that every GM in baseball knows that Ervin isn't great and they have known all season. I see top 100 prospect names dropped on here (Sheffield for example). If the positions were reversed, would anyone be trading a pitching prospect better than Gonsalves or Romero with 2nd players included (high upside low level guys)? I think everyone would say no and then point out all the reasons that people say the Twins must trade him now. The market is limited with Dozier since nobody has come up with a team that logically needs to trade for a 2B. That was the problem last offseason (Dodgers were bidding against nobody) and it is the problem now. The player to trade then is Escobar similar to Nunez last year. He has the position versatility to play 2B/SS/3B so he can fit into any team. He is also on a reasonable contract with a year of arb left so teams won't run into salary issues. It is selling which I am against for the most part but MI is a team strength right now and Nick Gordon should be up at some point next season. Not enough spots for everyone. It is possible that Escobar fetches a prospect that isn't dramatically lower than Santana and doesn't really impact the team much.