Nashvilletwin

You are correct. Losing Rortvedt is not organization altering. But taking an incredibly important and difficulty to fill position like catcher from one of strength to one of weakness can cause both short and long term pain. We went from having two legit starting catchers and one promising youngster with an important tool set to one legit starter, a reclamation project who has struggled both offensively and defensively, and a career AAAA guy (which Rortvedt might end up being but the Yankees sure seem intent on giving him 30%+ of their innings this year).

Good points. It’s not the angst over Rortvedt per se. Its the decimation of a balanced (offense and defense) catching depth chart for what we have now. We are arguably worse off at all three spots and Urshela for JD, despite the cost savings, is not a win for us either. Unless something dramatic happens, one cannot say that our lineup is better off than we were before we traded Garver.

Ok, let’s call the Yankees and see if they will trade Rortvedt back straight up for Godoy. Don’t think so…..

We’ve downgraded all three of our catching slots: Garver, Jeffers, Rortvedt > Jeffers, Sanchez, and Godoy. Not even close. It’s ok though, because catching is not an important position and it’s easy to acquire a lot of quality depth. A lot like shortstop. Sheesh.

Well if declining players head to Colorado to see their hitting numbers improve, then we should probably send Sanchez to the Rockies.

Well, we all hope so. But we shouldn’t really expect it. Sanchez may be a wonderful person, but a bad fielding, bad hitting catcher really has no place on this ball club right now. I’m wondering how many of us on the TD (understanding how smart we are as stay-at-home GMs) would take Sanchez over Rortvedt straight up? I would not. IMHO, it goes to show how badly the FO wanted to move JD. Good luck Gary. I’ll be rooting for you. I just won’t be surprised if the change of scenery doesn’t make you a better catcher.

Arraez played very well at 3B last year - better than JD from what I’ve read on the TD.

Other than Gray, how's is that lineup better than what we had a week ago? Three days ago? It’s not. Sanchez may be a fine person, but he is strictly a reclamation project as a major league catcher. If he’s on the roster post the trade deadline, let alone opening day, it’s a mistake. Other than owning a catcher’s mitt, we should expect that he will bring no value to this organization. Here is about the best we can hope for right now as our starting lineup: Catcher: Jeffers, 1B: Kiriloff, 2B: Polanco, SS: Story, 3B: Urshela, RF: Kepler, CF: Buxton, LF: Larnach or Rooker (whoever has the better spring), DH: Sano. Our four bench players are: Arraez, Sanchez, Gordon, and Miranda. SPs: Gray, Pineda, Bundy, Ober and Ryan. Dobnak is in the pen with the seven best of the others. I actually like the Urshela/Miranda combination at 3B with Story at SS. With Jeffers behind the dish, this lineup really only has a defensive deficiency in LF. The starting staff could be about average. If the pen steps up, there may be enough offense to win a few games more than they lose.

Not that anyone cares or thinks about or remembers my comments on the TD, but I have been very vocal about moving JD and using the cash to sign a SS. I was happy if it happened before the season or if we kept JD until the deadline to tutor Miranda or to see if we could get into contention. If Story (or Correa lol) is signed (which I fully expect), this trade could work out well. Essentially our left side is Urshela and Story replacing JD and IKf. In both cases we have Miranda on the way at 3B. I think that in 2022 and certainly in 2023 that we are better off. The cost was losing our defensive catching depth. I was ok with losing Garver for IKF as I envisioned Jeffers and Rortvedt as a strong complimentary duo behind the dish for several years. No we have a hole. Hopefully it gets solved. Now on the other hand, if the plan is Urshela at SS, well …..

I’ll take the under on 30+ HRs this year - no matter how many ABs Sanchez gets at C or DH. On the other hand, if something happens to Jeffers and Sanchez is forced to play a lot of innings at C, I might take the over on 30+ passed balls.

If the Twins sign Story (or Correa lol) and Miranda is actually a true major leaguer (both of which I expect), then Urshela and Sanchez should have no role on this team. Urshela would be an expensive utility player who hits and fields worse than our existing utility player (LA). We have no place on this team for a piss poor defensive catcher who strikes out at Sano rates without the equivalent pop. If Miranda is any good, then the only way those two will help the Twins in any significant way in 2022 or beyond is via a salary dump trade before the deadline. If Miranda is not ready, Urshela is our starting 3B. But he should not be our starting SS. Gray is another story and hopefully he and Maeda plus at least two of our young gun starters comprise a solid core in our 2023 rotation. Honestly, what was the purpose behind trading for Gray (a trade I like, btw) if we are going to start reclamation projects Urshela at SS and Sanchez 40% or so of the innings at C? We traded our outstanding catcher depth, a combo 3B/DH and a legit SS for those two clowns. Yeah, I’m a bit salty this morning. All to get rid of JD’s salary? Why is this move better than just signing Story, bring up Miranda, and move JD at the deadline if we are not contending and/or Miranda is producing? There has to be more coming.

I guess this is what it took to move JD and have the Yankees take all his salary. Too bad the FO couldn’t have found another deal. Ideally, they would have just moved JD and signed Story (which I’m assuming they are going to do now). Urshela helps Miranda ease in, but, if that transition is successful, there is no reason for Urshela to be on the team - so he’d get moved at the trade deadline. Decimating the catching depth is very confusing. Sanchez is just not very good anymore - certainly not as good as Garver and, if his hitting continues its deterioration, I’d rather have Rortvedt as well. The Yankee sites are saying that Rortvedt will platoon at C - so someone there had enough respect for his game to not only carry him on the roster, but feed him plenty of innings. Again, getting a couple of has beens who carry some cash costs and we hope will rebound or otherwise we will jettison is a pretty high cost to pay to move JD’s salary and give up a couple very solid depth catchers. Signing Story will help, but couldn’t we have just done that anyway? So a year from now (or maybe next week or by the trade deadline) if everything goes as likely will happen, Miranda will be at 3B, Story will be at SS, Urshela and Sanchez will be gone, the Twins will be looking for catching depth, and will some extra cash on hand. Not a disaster, but sure will be a roundabout way to get there.

Good morning TDers. Great to have baseball back! I’ll bat lead off on the roster as the frenzy starts today. First, let’s assume the Twins stick with $130MM to spend. I personally do not think we reach that this year, but let’s start there. On the position player side there are three blanks. Two existing players will be primarily in different slots - AK will be our primary 1B and MS our primary DH. That leaves SS, LF, and one more utility/OF4. So, here is how we fill those three: a) sign Story for $25MM/yr for 4-5 years; b) Miranda becomes a major leaguer; and c) one of Larnach, Rooker, and Celestino breaks spring training with the big club. This adds $26.4MM in payroll leaving $21MM to spend. On the bump, we add Big Mike (or similar) on a one year $8MM deal with a club option for year two and a healthy buyout option. Our fifth starter spot starts with Jax (or Dobnak - the point is they both make the club). But this is more of a placeholder because we will be giving several of our young guys innings this year as the season progresses. We now have $12MM left to spend on two RP spots. In the modern game, it’s so much more about the pen - thus, I’d spend the $, but look for at least one two/three year deal as quality in ‘23-‘24 is going to be more important. If for some reason by the trade deadline we are competitive, keep the lineup intact. If not, based on how the younger players are developing, you can move JD, MK, and MP to save cash to reinvest in ‘23.

Last week I selected Sands as my choice to click on 2022. So I like this article (haha). We will see. Having said that, I’d take four starters on essentially rookie contracts around a 4.00 ERA like Ober last year coupled with a shutdown bullpen any day of the week. That combo wins a lot of games.

Super summary! What is our goal for SS, keeping in mind that it’s the most important defensive position on the field (even more so given our young pitching staff)? If the least acceptable answer is a consistently above average, reliable defensive player with an average bat, then I’d agree the rankings confirm a huge hole at SS within our organization. It’s true, sadly. At the moment, it would appear that it is unlikely that we could fill SS with someone matching that description for at least four years, and even then, the jury hasn’t even begun to deliberate, let alone still be out, on our one true hope, Miller. But by the time he’s ready, we might already be talking about our next window. Sign Story and declare SS victory. We have the $, but if we had to move JD to get it done, so be it. For the 2023-2026 Twins, Story >>> Donaldson - it’s not even close. Once our SS hole has been filled, the promise and depth (not only in terms of talent, but also, importantly, cost and control) of these top 20 prospects really becomes apparent. But the SS hole is gaping and could be our greatest Achilles heel holding us back if not resolved. My choice for who most clicks in 2022 is Cole Sands. My choice for who least clicks is SWR.

This has been an excellent series. Thank you TD staff! What is sadly looking like a shortened season, I’m enthusiastically looking forward to following the progress of our up and comers - including those already in the majors. Regardless of how this season turns out, there is a lot to enjoy and keep me interested. A solid, contending TEAM, especially a mid market team like the Twins, usually is comprised of a mix of talents -speed, arm, range, power, OBP, hustle/heart, etc. - and salary levels. Martin should fit in quite well in that model. A lot now falls on the coaching staff, starting with Rocco and moving down the chain of command, to see that these young players develop to create a contending team as early as next year. My hope is that ownership and the FO are focused on that development in judging the staff’s performance.

You nailed the dream lineup.

Outstanding post. If that is our starting lineup in ‘03 - with a combo of Garver/Jeffers/Rortvedt behind the dish - the window should be open and getting better over the next several years. Btw, think about the $’s committed to that lineup; plenty of cash to add additional talent and go all in.

Nothing would make us TDers happier than to see Royce pencilled in as the long-term starting SS beginning sometime in ‘23 (probably the best case scenario). Having said that, if Royce doesn’t stick at SS and Miranda is our everyday 3B, I wouldn’t be disappointed if Royce roamed RF next to Buxton for many years. I get it - if Royce can truly be an average to above average defensive SS with a decent bat to go along with it, then that’s his spot. But if he can’t, and I know I’m in the minority on the TD, I salivate about the combination of speed/range, arm strength, power, OBP, and manageable cost that could come from an outfield of Martin, Buxton and Lewis.

You are 100% correct. The Twins have the cash to sign Story. And they should. An additional reason being is that they can always move on from JD at the deadline if we are not competitive (which given the state of the starting staff is not unlikely). So it only costs a little over 1/2 year of additional JD in the worst case. The additional advantage is that Miranda can be eased in as desired. Either give him ABs at AAA and wait his turn. Or, break camp with him in the utility role along with Arraez and Gordon and seeing ABs mostly in the infield but some in the outfield maybe as well. If JD is moved, then Miranda hasn’t just been thrown in the fire. This is probably the best case scenario. I just don’t feel it is going to happen.

Agree as well 100%. It’s just too bad that, if we are likely to move on from JD by the deadline, we won’t bite the bullet now and replace his cash outlay with Story. With Miranda manning 3B, solve SS for at least four years and eliminate the pressure to move Polanco to across the diamond. If at some point either Lewis or Miller look like everyday SSs, we deal with that then.

I think you are spot on TopGunn. JD stays this season. Miranda (and Arraez) gets lots of ABs playing left with Larnach and spelling JD at 3B. For nearly $25MM/yr I’d still prefer Story at SS than JD at 3B, but - sadly - it’s unlikely that scenario comes to fruition. Also, its unlikely the Twins add Story without moving JD (we can dream - theoretically it’s possible). As you point out, this still leaves a gaping hole at SS. Having said that, if the Twins are not competitive by the deadline, JD gets moved and hopefully some combo of Martin, Celestino and Larnach split left and Miranda is full time at 3B with Arraez and Gordon in utility roles. Depending on how Martin, Larnach, Celestino and/or Lewis are developing, Max could be moved too at the deadline. Boy, it’s just so much easier for the Twins to deal with a hole at 3B than it is at SS. Miranda (with Arraez in the backup role) at 3B with Story at SS and Polanco remaining at 2B is just a stronger, and better for the future, lineup.

Here’s hoping Miranda is our regular third basemen for at least the next six years. If he were joined in the infield by Story, Polanco, and Kiriloff for at least the next four of those, the Twins starting infield would probably stack up well against any team in the league both offensively and defensively. Miranda is an incredibly important piece to help open our next window as early as next season. I hope we give him the innings and ABs to develop quickly this season at the major league level.

Couldn’t agree more. Give us two-three solid #2-3 starter types (and Balazovic, Ryan, Ober and a few others could project as such), two-three solid #3-4 starter types and two-three dependable late inning reliever types out of the cadre of young, cheap, controllable approaching arms we have and we’d be in really, really good shape (in terms of both performance and committed cash). That means finding six-nine dependable pitchers (with four starters) out of the pitchers in our top twenty prospects and Ober, Dobnak and Jax on whom we can rely from ‘23-‘26. It’s doable and appears to be the plan of the FO.

Ok so it may or may not cost a few bucks more either for Story and/or to move JD. I agree that signing Story likely means a JD trade - however, not because the Pohlads are cheap, but because the owners and FO know that ‘22 is most likely a repositioning year given our projected starting staff. The real issue is that none of Lewis, Martin or Miranda may actually be a major league shortstop - let alone a major leaguer (although I expect all three to be solid MLers). Miranda and Martin aren’t even really in the SS discussion. If Lewis does pan out at SS then you have the proverbial rich man’s problem. The more likely scenario is that in ‘23 all three of these prospects are starting at other positions - 3B (Miranda) and corner OF on either side of Buxton (Martin and Lewis) with Story at SS, Polanco at 2B and Kiriloff at 1B. Lewis is probably the biggest risk at this point to be anywhere in the lineup in ‘23, let alone SS. Sign Story and get Miller ready over the next four years as the heir apparent at SS.