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Everything posted by DaveW
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All goes in line with my earlier point: Ryan in his first stint here had the front office clicking on all cyclinders more or less, something happened org wise when Ryan stepped down the first time, and they haven't recovered really since. I do wish they would have just cleaned house from top to bottom, instead of bringing in a few new guys and promoting others in some sort of half measure. Makes me very worried about the future, and makes me wonder if it's going to take an ownsership change at this point to make a big diff
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2016 Alex Kirilloff OF Plum High School (Pittsburgh) 15 TBD, too early to tell. 2015 Tyler Jay LHP Illinois 6 While it's still early for Jay, having him already go back to the pen this quickly is definitely a disappointment. 2014 Nick Gordon SS Olympia HS, Orlando, Fla. 5 TBD: Hopefully this is a breakout year for him 2013 Kohl Stewart RHP St. Pius X High School, Houston 4 TBD: I went over the issues Stewart has above, but as it stands now? Not looking good for a #4 pick 2012 Byron Buxton CF Appling High School, Baxley, Ga. 2 Should be a stud. 2011 Levi Michael SS North Carolina 30 Bust 2010 Alex Wimmers RHP Ohio State 21 Bust 2009 Kyle Gibson RHP Missouri 22 Back end rotation guy 2008 Carlos Gutierrez RHP Univ. of Miami (Fla.) 27 Bust 2008 Aaron Hicks OF Wilson H.S., Long Beach, Calif. 14 Bust 2007 Ben Revere OF Lexington (Ky.) Catholic HS 28 4th OF, one decent year (2012) 2006 Christopher Parmelee OF Chino Hills (Calif.) HS 20 Bust
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Honest question for the "Jay could become a starter again crowd" Has there been any cases in the last 20 years where a team drafted a college relief pitcher, brought him up to the mid to high minors as a relief pitcher, then put him as a starter in the majors at some point? With ANY sort of success?
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I think it is a major setback personally. As my post above lays out, out then Gonsalvez and Berrios there aren't a whole lot of "cant miss" types in this farm system currently, or at least guys that you can count on to be more than a #4/#5. We are talking about the worst team in baseball over the last 5-6 years, and with one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball during that time. We can't afford to be missing with these sort of high picks this often, especially when said pick was supposed to help the rotation initially. I think bullpen pitchers are important, no doubt, but you can have the greatest 9th inning guy of all time and it won't matter if you are down 8-5 late in games 90+ times a year.
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Romero has significant injury issues and is still very very far away, additionally he hasn't even thrown 175 innings since he joined the org in 2012. I like the upside no doubt, but he still has a significant "bust" chance as well. I'm higher on Stewart then most, but he is still far away, and his lack of strike outs thus far in the low minors (5.9 k/9) is cause for some concern when it comes to his ceiling. I'm also higher on Mejia then most, but he projects to be a #4/#5 type. Gonsalves I feel the best about for sure, I am confident that he will be an asset for this starting rotation. So basically we have one guy in Gonsalves who looks to be a pretty good bet to be an asset for the Twins starting rotation, 2 guys with upside but a lot of question marks (Stewart+Romero) and a guy who is backend type (Mejia) Seeing how the current Twins rotation is a complete mess, where Berrios may be the only "contributor" for them in 2019 onwards, I'm not sure I am confident that the Twins farm system is going to be able to produce enough SP to help fill out the rotation. Losing Jay from the SP candidate list is a major blow IMO. If we had the Mets current rotation I don't think people would be as concerned, but our rotation is already in dire straits, we need as many SP arms in the minors as possible!
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The problem isn't that Gibson didn't become an Ace, it's that he has been the most "successful" 1st round pick of the Twins over the last 10 years. You can't strike out 9 out of 10 years, and the one year you get a decent player he ends up being a #5
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Johnson may have ran the drafts, but Ryan and co probaly had a lot of say when it came to the first few round picks I imagine (as do most teams) I do think Ryan was very very very good at scouting and evaluating talent, and it shows with the core he was able to build when the Twins were winning those divisions: Santana, Mauer, Morneau, Span, Hunter, Liriano etc In fact, I'd say that Ryan was one of the best 5 GM's in all of baseball during his first stint here. Something definitely changed though after he first stepped down, and unfortunately he couldn't re discover the mojo/success. Much like the players on the field, I think managers, GM's, etc also have peaks and decline phases as well (this goes across sports) It's super super super rare to find a coach or GM that can have continued success for 10+ years. (Bill Belicheck, Epstein etc come to mind) Just like it's super super rare to find a baseball player or NBA player etc who can be effective for 15+ years anymore. I think Ryan ultimately just hit his "decline" phase, and unfortunately there wasn't a lot of other help in the Twins org as well to help ease this.
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Keep in mind that this list INCLUDES Mauer who was drafted in 2001, Span in 2002, and Plouffe and Perkins in 2004. Since then it's been pretty abysmal, Garza was a solid pick of course, but we decided to trade him away of course. Also this proves the point that drafting will make or break your team. There is a reason why the Twins were able to win all those division titles: because they were able to make some good picks. Since 2005 or so though, it's been a disaster overall. If you were to look at the last 10 years of draft picks, the Twins would likely be one of the very worst in baseball. Buxton, Gordon, Stewart of course could help this out a lot, but other than them? It's been pretty pathetic.
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Yeah, it's a completely different scenario. A better comparison would be if the Twins decided to put Berrios in the pen for a year or so instead. Berrios was always viewed as a starter and always was a starter. Jay apparently wasn't "good" enough to be considered a starter for a middle of the road college baseball conference. I think he still has plenty of upside and can be an asset, but you absolutely should NOT be drafting college relief pitchers in the first round of the draft, even more so when you are talking about a top 10 pick. The Twins seemingly have been trying this "college RP----> ML starter" bit for a while now, and it hasn't worked out at all. You need to be looking for guys that can be #1/#2 type starters in the first round, or guys that can be heart of the lineup type players, not settling for relief pitchers or 4th OF types.
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Americans off to a very strong start this season
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The problem is a lot of the old regime is still around. I was sitting behind home plate the other day for a Twins ST game against team USA, everyone surrounding us was a scout. The guy 4 seats down? Mike Radcliff, like honestly, I'm not sure he should be with the team at this stage, especially in an important facet. He had a really really really nice run, and is a legend for this club no doubt, but at some point you need fresh blood and fresh eyes IMO. Especially after so many down years.
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Josh Donaldson, Todd Frazier, Brett Cecil....to name a few. Just because Revere has been around 9 years doesn't make him a good or even close to a good player. Juan Castro somehow played 17 years for instance.
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He's a #5 basically. You need to do better with your first round picks.
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The prob with Revere is his ceiling was always a "meh" 4th/5th OF type. He has reached that ceiling which is fine, but never should have been a first round pick to begin with. He had negative 1.2 WAR last year, so not sure he is going to have too much longer of a career....
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Buxton Gordon, Stewart and the kid last year COULD be good as well, too early to tell though. Clear though that Revere, hicks, Parmelee, Gutierrez, Gibson, michael, wimmers were all massive misses. Jay is a miss so far as well since he is already going to the pen
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Yeah, god forbid we criticize a team that has exactly one good first round pick in the last 10 or so years, and a team that has been the worst team in baseball overall the last six years. Especially when most people at the time pointed out that drafting a college reliever that high was a very very very questionable decision.
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+1 I have also always found it weird that if a guy wasn't good enough to crack a college rotation...why on earth do people think he will be good enough to crack a major league rotation? I mean I guess it would only make sense if the guy was either a super super super late bloomer or on an all time great college team or something...
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He better reach that ceiling then. Color me very very skeptical in the meantime. Elite closer or bust I guess?
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It's dumb, the Twins continue to try this failed method time and time again, just like they did when they were obsessed with drafting undersized, zero pop hitters like revere 50 picks too early.
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This team is gonna be terrible this year and likely next, why exactly do we need to rush Jay to the majors to pitch out of the bullpen again? This org continues to appear to have absolutely no clue in what they are doing, and the results continue to show it.
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Funny thing is the guy picked one spot behind is now the #1 prospect in all of baseball.
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I for one am shocked that the Twins took the obvious wrong player in the first round at it backfired on them miserably. Revere, Hicks, Jay, Gibson, etc Worst front office in all of sports the last decade.
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Article: MRI Reveals Torn UCL For Trevor May
DaveW replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
4.40 carer era 95 career era+ Even a 4.24 era over the last 7 years isn't good. That's #5 type production. I mean I like Hughes and hope he can have the kind of season he did a couple years ago, but I'm not holding my breath, esp coming off significant arm issues. -
Article: MRI Reveals Torn UCL For Trevor May
DaveW replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
While Hughes has had 4 solid to good years, he has spent 10 years in the majors. He has 12.1 total WAR and a career 4.41 ERA. His last 6 seasons he has a 4.50 ERA. While that isn't the end of the world, I wouldn't call that "good" either. Hughes is basically a guy who more than likely is a #4/#5 guy, which is a shame because he had a ton of potential. There are plenty of "good" pitchers out there, May could have been one of them. -
Article: MRI Reveals Torn UCL For Trevor May
DaveW replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
When your 4th example is Hughes, a guy no has had injury issues and exactly ONE good to great SP season, you sort of make my point for me. Sale was also only in the bullpen for a third of a season and was heavily monitored. Smoltz was a starter for 10+ years before moving to become a closer. Weird examples overall TBH