Review the Debuts: Twins Rookie Position Players

Lots of stinky statistics in there! I doubt that most are as bad as that, but there certainly looks like a lot of potential space on the 40-man roster.

Miranda and Wallner for sure, despite some TD fans claiming neither can field. I don't believe either player has had enough time at their regular positions to prove or disprove that complaint, but whatever, they can hit and Miranda has shown he can do it with men on base; a seemingly rare ability for Twins hitters.

I'd also throw in Lewis but so far he's proven more Buxton-esque than reliable player. Not many teams can compete carrying book-end bench "resters". Though maybe Rest Home Rocco can stagger the two's rest days so at least one of them is on the field every game. Must be a spreadsheet for that...

Miranda - yes, Wallner DH only, Lewis and Buxton have so much potential and so many injuries!  Who is next - Contreras played himself off the 40 man.  Palacios is a backup defensive specialist if we need it.  Hamilton should be gone.  It felt like there should be more on the list.  Still wish we had Steer. 

Next spring training will expose the first season flukes from the, at minimum, average talent.

Been awhile since the twins have had a crop of better then average rookies, only time will tell.

The top 3 by far out shown the rest, especially with their bats. But where Lewis distances himself from the 3 is his glove. Lewis's glove was superb while the other 2 were below par. Lewis instantly impacted the team.

It was a shame that Lewis was not put in a situation to help man 3B, 2B, 1B as well as SS, immediately where they put Miranda (3B & 1B) on a steady basis. They instead moved not that far removed  Lewis from rehab in hazardous CF which was absolutely ridiculous & unnecessary.

My hope is that Lewis will return better than ever. But if not, it's all on management.

6 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

But where Lewis distances himself from the 3 is his glove.

And speed. Look at the rest of the guys. For now, we can't get one rookie that you can say are good at both hitting (either average or power) and defense, let alone speed. That's where the Kirilloff injury really "hurts." He is/was going to be great at both hitting and first base defense.

Hope Lewis still has the speed after this. Did we see enough to be able to say he will be great defensively?

I think the rookies did a great job, (Not Contreras) with the amount of injuries that the big league team sustained throughout the season. It hurts when you get a player of Lewis' ability that continues to get hurt via freak things (slipping outside of his home tearing his ACL and then leaping and landing wrong in the OF to make a catch).  But I think if he comes back he is gonna just as advertised as we need him. He showed he was big league ready in his small sample size. If we really do lose Correa, and Lewis has some rehab games, the defense and offense will struggle, but when he comes back, he will be out for some blood to prove himself. 

Also, if its true that Correa wants to help out Miranda and Lewis this offseason with some hitting, I am all for it. I mean the guy knows his stuff. So I think he is a great addition whether or not we retain him. 

24 minutes ago, mac098 said:

Also, if its true that Correa wants to help out Miranda and Lewis this offseason with some hitting, I am all for it. I mean the guy knows his stuff. 

Where Correa can really help Miranda is his defense and that is my sincere hope. I did not hear anything about Correa helping Lewis if so that'll be awsome.

It looks like Miranda, Lewis & Wallner can be future starters or at least near full time backups. All got their chances somewhat early because of injuries but they look like faces we will see regularly going forward. Hopefully 2-3 more new players of equal talent show up in 2023.

Miranda was about everything I think we could have hoped for, once he settled in. He also got much more comfortable at 1B as time went on. IMO, he's OK at 3B and will only get better. It's actually his most familiar position. Too many health questions, unfortunately, for some of the young players, I'd like to keep Urshela around another year, if possible, and let Miranda rotate between 3B and 1B like this year. While I believe he would be just fine at 3B, I'm not sure someone like Lee doesn't push him to 1B on a more permanent basis e eventually. 

I remain convinced Lewis is a special player if healthy and has all the tools to be a fine SS. I'm not going to predict greatness with the glove, but at least good with the potential to be very good/great.

When the Twins were desperate for offense, I felt Wallner should have been brought up sooner as a hopeful wild card. His early adjustment seems to warrant that notion. Most impressed by his continued production and season long improvement across the board at 2 levels. In an ideal world, good health for the OF might allow him to begin 2023 at St Paul to just refine a couple of things before he comes up for good. But I think his bat will play at the ML level.

Contreras disappointed me. The defense looked solid, as advertised. And I didn't expect a lot from his bat, but I did expect more. His future is probably with a different club and a different opportunity, but still, I liked having him around as a potential AAAA type.

And I was definitely disappointed in Palacious as a hitter. He hit in A ball, suddenly couldn't hit a lick in the Tampa system, and then really turned it around back with the Twins in 2021. After a great winter, his bat again looked solid in AAA this year. But he did next to nothing in his brief time with the Twins until his last few games. Was it just SSS and adjustments as well as sporadic play? I was really hoping he might show enough to be OK as a temporary SS option to begin 2023 as the glove plays. 

Miranda and Royce look like the real deal. Wallner could be a good replacement for Kepler in the near future. Polacios and Contreras are both AAA talent.

1 hour ago, DocBauer said:

And I was definitely disappointed in Palacious as a hitter. He hit in A ball, suddenly couldn't hit a lick in the Tampa system, and then really turned it around back with the Twins in 2021. After a great winter, his bat again looked solid in AAA this year. But he did next to nothing in his brief time with the Twins until his last few games. Was it just SSS and adjustments as well as sporadic play? I was really hoping he might show enough to be OK as a temporary SS option to begin 2023 as the glove plays. 

I was more disappointed in his fielding. I thought he would be great and wasn't. If that was great, I would have given him a chance until Lewis returns. Now, you only give him a chance if we aren't planning on contending (or Lewis will be back very early) in 2023 IMO.

Royce Lewis - Everything about him screams team leader.  Please let that ACL heal properly and keep him at SS.  He'll slump at the plate, but will bounce back.

Matt Wallner is everything we wanted Brent Rooker to be, but with a stronger arm.  I agree with trading Kepler and just letting Wallner ride.  He's good.  Not fan friendly at all, but still a solid ball player.

Jose Miranda - I wrote him off prior to the pandemic.  A flyer of a minor leaguer after his first few years.  Then I don't know who got a hold of him or what he got a hold of, but cheese and rice did he develop into something special.  I remember sitting in our seats in St. Paul watching him make his AAA debut on his birthday.  Wow.  Bless him.  He's everything you could've ever hoped for and more.

Brooks Lee - Why can't he be the next Alex Bregman without the scandal?  Truly.  He's bombarded the pitchers at every level.  He will fail at some point, but we have to let him learn.  He's special.  Lee and Lewis on the left side of the diamond?  Sign me up.

55 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

I was more disappointed in his fielding. I thought he would be great and wasn't. If that was great, I would have given him a chance until Lewis returns. Now, you only give him a chance if we aren't planning on contending (or Lewis will be back very early) in 2023 IMO.

When he was first called up Palacios played short and did look good. It was when he played second that he messed up. He hasn't played there much. 

1 hour ago, jrod23 said:

Lee and Lewis on the left side of the diamond?  Sign me up.

Lee, Lewis, Arraez and Kirilloff with Miranda at 1st/3rd/DH (or in place of Kirilloff if he never recovers from surgery) in two years. Sounds good to me.

I do believe they have a solid nucleus of everyday players. Jeffers is still questionable as an everyday catcher. Not sure why others disparage Wallner’s defense. My understanding is that he has above average speed for a big guy and has a rocket for an arm as a former pitcher. Did we see enough of Miranda at third to judge him incapable of playing there ever day? 

21 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Miranda, Lewis, and Wallner are the important ones. Miranda is probably the safest bet to be a solid ML player but he'll be - at best - average. Among first baseman with 400 PA, he was 23rd in fWAR. His bat is comparable to guys like Naylor and Seth Brown now and he could improve a bit more but he's likely a 1.5-2.5 WAR player over a full season, depending on how his defense grades out. I don't think he'll be a 30 HR threat but a consistent "professional hitter" with bad defense.

 

Having cost-controlled average ML players in your organization is not a bad thing.  Miranda looks to be "average" at worst.   

Your assessment of MIranda looks to be spot on.  Miranda looks to be "average" at worst.  His bat looks MLB ready,  but his positional defense will be the big key for him.  Can he handle 1B/3B over the long haul will be the big question.  The fact the Twins kept Arraez at 1B all season speaks less to me about the need to keep him in the lineup and healthy and more about the Twins current belief in Miranda's defense.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:13 PM, jrod23 said:

Matt Wallner is everything we wanted Brent Rooker to be, but with a stronger arm.  I agree with trading Kepler and just letting Wallner ride.  He's good.  Not fan friendly at all, but still a solid ball player.

 

I see little difference between Rooker and Wallner; Wallner has a strong arm, but his fielding is a cross between Keystone Cop and a bull in a China shop.

After spring training, how much AAA he still needs will be known.

2 hours ago, Otaknam said:

I do believe they have a solid nucleus of everyday players. Jeffers is still questionable as an everyday catcher. Not sure why others disparage Wallner’s defense. My understanding is that he has above average speed for a big guy and has a rocket for an arm as a former pitcher. Did we see enough of Miranda at third to judge him incapable of playing there ever day? 

Miranda

50 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How is center field hazardous? They desperately needed a backup for Buxton.

I think people are off on Wallner and his defense. I agree he should have been up much earlier. 

Miranda and his D make me more nervous, but he's the safest bet to hit. I agree he is a league average first baseman or DH most likely, but I bet he plays more than a little third next year.

The other three should not be on the forty man roster to start next year.

We have been super desperate in CF in the past (and very strangely no one complained) but this year we had not only one capable CF, we had 2  in  Gordon &  Celestino. Not only their glove been very adequate their bat weren't bad.

For Cave there isn't any danger for him whatsoever in CF but any all out & vulnerable players like Buxton & Lewis it is highly dangerous & this year highly unnecessary.

Oh come on , you are acting as if Baseball is as dangerous to the human body as Football; paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep....

The narrative that the Twins made a mistake putting Lewis in the (dangerous?) position of center field does not hold water for me. He's is a ballplayer. His whole life. He is, apparently, prone to knee injuries. That play where he got hurt was pretty routine. The stresses on his knee as he landed after bouncing off the wall could've happened at short, at third, on the bases or walking in Texas after an ice storm. This is one instance where fans are working overtime to assess the Twins leadership with blame.

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

No one knew Gordon would do this when Lewis was moved. No one. 

Also, explain the danger? There is no evidence that it is any more dangerous than other positions. 

Most important aspect of CF is glove, both Gordon & Celestino shown very good glove from the beginning, you have to be blind not to see that. Their hitting were both well above average at the time Lewis went down. CF depth Buxton, Celestino & Gordon very impressive. Before  Lewis went down, (not including Lewis) SS depth Correa + nobody, 3B Urshela + Arraez (not very good), 2B Polanco + Arraez (not very good), 1B Arraez + (nobody because Kiriloff was hurt). So as you should see Lewis was much more needed for INF depth.

Let me explain the danger. Do an experiment, sprint full bore (if you can) blind folded into a wall (blind folded because the CF has their eyes on the ball not the wall). Then tell me if you don't get seriously hurt. Especially if you had surgery the year before. What's the odds of a CFer hitting the wall? very very likely. If a CFer doesn't run into a wall, he shouldn't be in CF.

Miranda should be looked at as a cog in the middle of the Twins lineup, Wallner and Lewis have that potential but should start in AAA as depth, and Contreras, Hamilton, and Palacios shouldn’t be depth but depth FOR the depth, as in 4th catcher, 7th outfielder and 7th infielder. Respectfully, I don’t want to see any of them at the majors for more than 10-20 games unless they can prove there’s more in them than 4A players.