jimmer

and veterans with plenty of actual MLB time.

what choice does he have?

You're right. The 'facts' say that the relief corp being 12th in the AL out of 15 team in RE24 from '94-'01 and 9th out of 15 AL teams in RE24 from '12-'15 was 'pretty good' as opposed to a pretty bad- slightly below average. Those time frames account for 12 of his 18 years as GM. (or the mostly bad years/non-playoff years with him as GM). The time frame that shows his bullpens were excellent was 2002-2007 (or the mostly playoff years). It's easy to understand why one wouldn't want to take into account any time frame but '02-'07 when talking up Ryan's bullpen construction. And I am the one stuck on a narrative unwilling to concede points.

No, not 4th in '94. Last in the AL in RE24 in '94. Dead last. Stop indeed. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=al&qual=0&type=3&season=1994&month=0&season1=1994&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=5,d From '94-'01 they were 12th out of 15 in RE24. Then 9th out of 15 AL teams since he's returned. How does that look? Pretty bad-Slightly below average for sure. If that's pretty good, okay. But to the whole sticking to the narrative comment, I'm pretty sure I pointed out how good of info you gave when pointing out RE24, did I not? AND then I used more info to back up your point of view when talking about the years you want to count as I stated the inherited runs allowed percentage, did I not? Doesn't sound like something someone would do if he was stuck in his point of view and was continuing to push his narrative does it? But whatever.. Then, I pointed out how bad it's been since he's been back, which you also want to discount as you wanted to discount the years prior to the competitive years (your idea not mine). I care about the truth and I care about listening to other people' points of view. That's why I pointed out how good your info was in regards to the years you want to take into account AND added more info that strengthened your point (the Inherited runs allowed percentage). Pointing that out didn't help my narrative did it?

'I'm not very excited about the idea of Sano playing in the OF. However, it's fair to note that Harmon Killebrew played some LF early in his career. Also, Willie Stargell player A LOT of LF for the Pirates in the 60's and 70's. ...' It's also fair to note the plethora of big people who couldn't play OF. Names most don't know cause they couldn't cut it. Pointing out a handful of big people who did play OF in the history of the game, some way back, only emphasizes how rare it is, not how common. Kind of like when people point to Randy Johnson when talking about Meyer. And how big was Killebrew when he played OF? His profile at BR says 6 foot, 195 pounds. I'm guessing he stopped playing OF as he got bigger since he stopped playing OF after his age 30 year. Stargell listed at 6 foot 2, 188. Sano is much bigger than those two already.

So when discussing his ability to create a bullpen, you only want to take into account years we were competitive? Not from the start of his GM time to 2001 (per earlier post), not the years since he returned (per this post). Only 2002-2010 (which includes three years he wasn't GM)? Got it. Including those small time frames ('94-00 and '11-'15) would be absurd. Some thought last year was the start of a contending effort since we were still in the hunt going into the final week. Considering the Twins were 21st (9th in the AL) in RE24 (actually sporting a negative RE24), and 9th out of 15 AL teams in percentage of inherited runs allowed, would a better bullpen have made the difference between making the playoffs and not? Something for some of us to consider.

That is excellent information (though 3 of those years weren't under Ryan). Ever since he's returned, their relief corp is 11th in MLB from 2012-2015 (though 9th out of 15 in AL). Also of note, the relief corp was above league average in % of inherited runners scored in most of the years between 2002-2007 as well (usually just barely, but still above league average), and below average every year since he returned.

does xFIP take into account inherited runs scored?

One also has to wonder how good the stat ERA is when talking about relief pitchers (or any pitchers, really). In the case of relievers, all the inherited runs allowed don't count on their ERA stat line. If one insists it's the stat to use then our relief staff in the last 4 years ranked 17th in 2012, 14th in 2013 and then 21st in 2014 and 2015. Getting worse not better as we supposedly passed the threshold into the competititve years. Ours ranked 21st last year and what has really been done to improve it?

Are we happy with our options in the bullpen right now? For those of you who believe we have arrived in the truly competitive zone, are you really happy with the options available to use coming out of the pen?

'So you have to be in the top 8 of everything or you're bad at it? That's preposterous...' While I understand another poster said most of those rankings are bad, my post that mentioned top 8 and top 10 didn't say that, unless saying it's not really that good automatically means it's bad. I'm not, however, going to pat a bullpen or whatever on the back for being slightly above average. Teams should strive for more and fans should expect more.

Until recently, only 8 teams made the playoffs. Now only 10 teams do. So, I'd think during the times only 8 teams made the playoffs, being out of the top 8 in defense, in offense, or pitching (starting or relief), isn't really that good whether it was technically above average or not. Same with now not being out of the top 10. When half the teams make the playoffs, we can be somewhat happy with being 14th...

the good years are the only ones that count :-) '94-'00 were the short-time rebuilding years :-)

It doesn't.

Exactly my point.

On that note, from Dave Cameron's chat today: Scott: 'Is it crazy that I think the Twins have a potential great lineup? There is no doubt that they still need to add to their pitching.' Dave Cameron: 'You’re probably focusing too much on upside and not enough on what these players are right now. Buxton has a lot of tools but there are few reasons to think he’ll hit well in 2016.'

Until we consistently have players with better OBPs than Mauer had last year (or, better yet, what your projection states: .387 OBP), Mauer should bat 2nd. A change in the batting order won't turn on a switch and I still want the guys with the best OBPs batting in the upper half of the lineup.

Ok, for me it's not about May versus Milone (because I think May should bump all but maybe one of our starters), but how did Milone outperform May as a starter? May had the better FIP, more Ks per 9 IP, less walks per 9 IP, less HR/9 IP and better HR/FB% (all while having a much higher BABIP which likely goes down). May, as a starter, had more WAR as a starter too even though he started seven less games. In fact, it's likely that the only reason May didn't have the most WAR of any starter on the team is because he had about half as many starts as Pelfrey and Gibson.

this. 100%.

Meyer in 2014: 3.52 ERA, WHIP 1.381 WHIP and 4.4 BB/9 IP. Those are not solid numbers. Meyer in 2015: Started out as a starter and had to be converted to a reliever. AAA numbers: 4.05 ERA, 1.480 WHIP, 4.5 BB/9 IP. Face it, he's not meant to be a MLB starter. He might not even be good enough to be a MLB reliever.

Is it your contention that ERA is the stat that best gauges performance of a pitcher?

One might be in the pen ;-)

My bad, I meant Milone. :-)

Some are saying Milone is fine because he's our 5th starter. Fine. But I thought Nolasco was our fifth starter. Let's just say, we have a lot of options for 3rd-5th starter. At some point we have to look at the rotation and say some are bad for the spot in the rotation they are slotted. We can't just say these pitchers are okay cause they are our fifth starters. Only one guy can fill each spot in the rotation. And no, the talent in this rotation is not very good. I read that somewhere in here and, no. Not at all.

Speaking just for myself, it's got nothing to do with Malone. I think going into the 2016 season, May could have been our second best starter, and perhaps our best starter. I'm not a big fan of pitchers with Malone's skill set, but he's managed to get results, so that's a good thing.