DocBauer

Just want to echo the other various comments about Jordy Blaze. I can see not rushing him too hard. I can see another game or two at AA to continue to build confidence, momentum, sharpen something, but he needs to be up in ST Paul really soon. The only concern about him, Winder, Duran, Miranda, etc getting ML time this year is the very limited September call-up option that MLB so "wisely" put in to place. You don't get to bring up 6-10 guys like you used to be able to for auditions and getting their feet wet. Nope, that would ruin the integrity of the final month for contending teams. (eyeroll). So you have to have enough room on the 26 man to even be able to get all these guys time. A lot will depend on the deadline probably.

A little more time for reflection, reading and listening, I'm looking at things with a slightly different perspective, though not drastic. The key for Buxton is Buxton. And that's not a simple BS statement. There is a side of the aisle that is right to say not to invest that much $ in someone so often out of the lineup, no matter how talented. But there is the other side of the aisle equally correct about what a difference maker he is when in the lineup and the hope of how much a difference maker he could be if he suddenly finds better health. But how does Buck feel? At this point his betting on himself comes down to, realistically, ONE season, 2022. But for however many years the $70M is for as a floor, are we talking another $25-50M+ available by betting on himself? Can he hope form can he possibly, expect more IF he's suddenly healthy in 2022? Does he want to risk that? Or is he willing for the guaranteed $ AND the potential $? Not just as a fan, but we're in I his ear as an advisor or family member, I think I'd advise take the deal. I have no problem with Berrios wanting to test the market and bet on himself. It's his right. It's his opportunity. I'm a fan of Berrios and I still feel there is potential to reach another level going in to his age 28yr old season and early 30's. Will he do it? Who knows? But what is market value? As much of a fan as I am, unless he produces something like a top 1-5 Cy Young season in 2022, is he really worth a $25M per contract? I know it only takes ONE TEAM to believe that and make that kind of offer, but that's an awful lot of money for a #2 SP at this point. Is he worth something like $18-20M with incentives that probably aren't too hard to reach? That would be my opinion and what I'd be offering. Very good guaranteed $ with incentives that probably aren't hard to reach. Guaranteed $25M per I just don't know if the Twins could afford that. But I don't see him traded at this time or this offseason. Not unless the Twins jump in to full blown re-build mode. At 30yo with no dip in velocity and fully healthy, I don't see Rogers going anywhere. You can't fix the pen by trading your best arm....unless you go the re-build mode. In regard to the mentioned Cruz, IDK. Love to keep him, and his influence for 2022. He's special. But needing to TRY to keep what we have, add arms...still waiting IMPATIENTLY for the young arms to debut... and re-tool the 2022 team, I'm just not sure there is room. We don't know how the Donaldson situation will turn out yet, and that complicates the roster as well as the $. AK and Larnach will only get better, I hate to put pressure on yet another prospect, but the Twins, scouts, etc, have just been waiting for Miranda to put it all together. It's looking like he is now. Garver MIGHT be best used as the #2 catcher as well as 1B and DH. It's part of the confusing reality of 2022 and beyond.

Whether you believe in Sano or not, like Sano or not really isn't relevant. What is relevant is paying him to sit on the bench and not play. While not doing great, he's has hit reasonably well since May, as chronicled. You can't get value from him sitting on the bench and nobody is going to give much value to a guy just sitting on the bench. Also agree whole heartedly on watching as many young arms as we can, Winder, Duran, Ober and Balazovic being among the most important.

So Rosenthal and Olney both have reports that almost completely contradict one another? But, everything on the internet, especially from a news/media member has to be true right? Right? Is that the sky falling? But seriously, I have no doubt the Twins are approaching Buxton, and then almost assuredly Berrios, with long term extensions. And I have no doubt they have zero intention of trading anyone until next season barring a massive return haul as reported in the Olney piece. And the public "take it or leave it" comments toward Buxton were just speculative, trolling trash. Nobody negotiates that way, especially publicly. I'd day this piece is on point with some basic truths from the first, there is an offer made to Buxton.

How crazy is this season that I want Farrell to get healthy to prove he's worth maybe keeping around? I think, unfortunately, that its time for a healthy Thorpe to just transition to the pen full time and see what he can do. Might be good. But he's got to be healthy first. Winder is just about ready for his ML debut and take lumps if necessary. Barnes gets a deserved shot, but really? Get Winder up after a few more "adjustment" starts. IF Duran is OK health wise soon, he also needs a shot! Getting your feet wet is important, whether you look great or mediocre. It's part of the process. Not going to lie, I just didn't see Balazovic being THIS GOOD THIS SOON after starting the season late. Get him to AAA SOON! Get Sands to St Paul as well. For some reason he's been a forgotten SP prospect. He shouldn't be. Vallimont, IMO, was an absolute steal. But he missed early time this season. He has stuff to work on. But we also see a lot of good thing, He's not a fast track to the ML level, but get him to St Paul ASAP, Really, what journeyman would you want to keep over him? Jax has a shot as a middle man unless he surprises at some point, it's just too bad he had to wait so long to be a full time pro. I think Dobnak, healthy, still has a real shot. I have been so surprised by Ober! I see so much potential if just allowed to learn and grow in a lost season, I get monitoring his IP, but I've seen enough to know I want to see more. I think this kid has a real shot to be at least a backend SP. Canterino should never have been at A+ but I guess the Twins were being conservative early, He comes back soon, get him some IP and move him up ASAP! So far, right now, injuries have been a big bite for a lot of our pitching prospects. The good news is that, so far, oniy Enlow is out. Seems that everyone else is back or nearly back. Let's keep hoping for the best! You can't just promote every single pitcher you want to as a finish to 2021. MLB, in it's "wisdom" decided you can only bring up a couple extra additions. BUT, with trades and the such, there shoukd be a few more open spots to promote and audition at least a few arms. Baseball has changed in regard to the value of RP. And a bullpen doesn't have to be made up of converted SP exclusively. If there is room, and there may be, get a couple of the milb arms up for a shot. At worse, get Neff, Moran and others at least to St Paul to get ready for the future.

The one thing I like about this pick will sound silly on the surface but I believe has real merit is that most of BASEBALL in general, from recruiting to ML scouting, is that the Midwest and especially northern schools get far less attention than CA, TX, and any other warm climate state, including SEC and ACC territories seem to receive. There is real talent available outside the warm weather states. Not everyone wants to spend the time to look. Too many teams want to look at kids who have spring, summer, fall and travel roster games to audition and show themselves. Not every Midwestern kid has time and money to show themselves off the same or join a travel team, Some come from smaller schools and teams, like Miller, and also play other sports. I have no clue how good Miler could be. Nobody does, including the Twins. But good on them for trusting good scouting to watch an undervalued and under appreciated kid with real talent that has big potential. The ML draft reminds me a lot of college football recruiting. So much hype about a 4 star kid when a 3 star, or 2 star....occasionally a WO....was undervalued and turns out to be a STUD.

Lots of great posts and interesting thoughts. I'm not going to get in to a debate on this, but I am most certainly going to comment. I will repeat a few other opinions/thoughts already shared by others as well as repeat a couple things I've said in another OP recently. Sue me! LOL! 1] $70M with incentives is all we know. Just a little thought and logic woukd state the deal is probably 4 or 5yrs. Makes the most sense for both parties. Buxton receives $14M per AT MINIMUM each year (based on 5yrs) and I'm willing to bet incentives would push him to the $18-20M area (Again, based on 5yrs). This deal could easily hit the $100M mark with just a little logical speculation. Assuming no opt out clauses, he hits FA again around 32-33yo. With good health, he makes a ton of $ and can still sign yet another deal. Thus he gets PAID by the Twins, gets PAID even more with the incentives, and can still get PAID yet again. This gives guaranteed $ and STILL allows him to "bet on himself". But speculation of 7yrs and a low AAV is pointless right now. 2] I 99.9% believe any "take it or leave it or your gone" are pure speculation if not pure trolling. GM's and FO use "coach speak" all the time! They are masters, generally, of "political" comments made publicly but in a sports environment. Not only are making public mandates a poor way to negotiate, but when have you ever heard a GM announce to the world that someone is on the market and just gone when offers and negotiations are just beginning? Come on man! 3] Buck's recent comments about staying a Twin seemed honest. And I don't think we've ever heard him not speak honestly. He didn't offer up some vague "we'll just see what happens" comment. Not even close. Further, if there was any lingering drama about his lost service time a few years back, again, his recent comments wouldn't seem to indicate that there was, indeed, any lingering animosity. 4] Buxton, and his agenency, we can easily presume are not unintelligent. Buck knows how talented he is. His reps know how talented he is. The Twins and everyone else in MLB know how talented he is. But he, his reps, the Twins, and everyone else also know his history. So NOBODY is blind or uninformed or unintelligent concerning his ability or his career history at this point. Again, NOT knowing all the terms and potential of this offer, there doesn't seem to be anything "insulting" or "low ball" with this offer. There is speculation Byron may just want to bet on himself. Fine. He can take a GUARANTEED $70M and bet on himself to make even more with the incentives and look for yet another deal in his early 30's, as previously mentioned, OR, he COULD take 2022 to bet on 120+ games played and hit the market hoping for a larger deal. Betting on himself is NOT a one-way street here folks! It is completely unfair and non-productive to pretend to be in Buxton's shoes, or those of his reps and family, and try to speculate on a decision. But I can tell you, not as a Twins fan but as an adult, as a father, as someone who is just smart enough to look at the big picture of things, if your words about staying with the Twins ring true, TAKE the guaranteed $ while STILL betting on yourself and the extra $ to be earned and ANOTHER potentially at least decent deal in your early 30's. Betting on yourself and believing in yourself is good. Hoping and betting that everything just coalesces in ONE YEAR to offer up an even bigger payday...how much better?....just might not be worth the gamble. It's up to him to decide, of course. 5] I want Buck to stay. The Twins are ALSO betting on him, Do we just forget that? I want lady luck to smile on him and he suddenly gets healthy, stays healthy, doesn't have more freak injuries, etc, and can be the very best be can be. But just playing devil's advocate, at some point, you also have to look at the cards on the table and decide you've pushed enough in to the pot that you just can't risk any more. I hope we don't get to that point.

Were I a little smarter with multiple quotes or just not feeling tired and lazy, lol, and remember/play with how to do it, I would list Dman, Indiana and Vanimal here. ALL great posts. And I HATE playing the "what if I was a player in this situation" game because it's a ridiculous exercise. BUT, here I go. First, I see no way Buxton is traded NOW while recovering from a broken hand, I think we can all agree on that. Secondly, I absolutely agree he and his agents would LOVE for him to prove himself over a full season, or at least close to one. Third, NOBODY can deny the talent and potential. But FOURTH, NOBODY can deny the injury and missed time factor. I can absolutely see how Buxton and his agents would bet on a healthy and productive, maybe amazing, 2022 season. And the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc just line up to sign him to a 6yr $180M deal. But let's be honest for a moment. As crazy as the $ still is for TOP talent, would any team even with deep pockets, put that kind of $ on the line for ONE season? Or more to the point, only the SECOND season where he played more than 120 games? IDK, maybe someone would. But then I am FORCED to put myself in Buck's position, as I grudgingly stated. The Twins offer me say $15-18M with incentives that can bring me up to $20-22M and maybe $25M after year 3. But they offer me an opt out at 30-31yo where I am still young enough to sign a larger deal IF I have in fact suddenly found better luck/health and I'm ready to roll! I have BANKED for myself and my family for 2-3yrs even if my injury history persists. And if it doesn't, I have the option of taking the rest of my deal with the Twins, re-negotating, or choosing the FA route. How do the Twins or Buxton lose on something like this? I HATE playing GM or player roles, but I did it.

Grudgingly I agree. But I have seen enough of Ober that I think there is really something there. And I have no problem with limiting his IP considering past limitations and no 2020, I think the Twins really like him and see something. I keep recalling his first mediocre start where Smalley stated it was one of the best 4IP and 4R allowed start he had ever seen, because he saw a lot to build on. Whether the Twins employ a 6 man rotation or do some piggybacking to finish this year, I could easily see at least 6 SP needing and deserving work after Happ is gone. The Twins are going to stretch Ober as much as they can and build him up for 2022 as a real option. I agree with this approach. I think this kid has a real shot. I think Barnes deserves a shot, Just being honest, I wasn't crazy about his selection so early when drafted. And I have a love affair with LH's! LOL. I just didn't see the potential and still not sure I do. His milb numbers are solid but not great, But he's been promoted fairly aggressively and got a late "second site" look late in 2020. It just feels like he's missing an "it" factor that doesn't allow him the ability to succeed at this point at the ML level. Don't get me wrong velocity isn't everything. And a wicked change is, well, wicked. I just don't know that he has that 3rd or 4th offering to really succeed. You give me him or a healthy Thorpe to transition to the pen...once the "dead arm which really turned out to be injury related" situation gets re-habbed...Im leaning toward Thorpe. But I'm excited and hopeful for the kid. I hope be does well.

Thank you for this! I don't subscribe to the Trib any longer so this was very interesting to hear. I object to any opinion that Buck's statements are just "player speak". If so he could have easily worded his comments differently with something like "it would be great to play with one team your whole career but we'll see what happens." He went way beyond that. And he's NEVER been dishonest in his comments or shown any signs of being a primadonna. And IMO, he's never held anything against the Twins for his "shut down" a few years ago that cost him some service time. Again, IMO, that might have been the best course for his future, But I digress. The problem with signing him is sooo much injury and missed time. The Twins know this, Buxton and his agents know this. Nobody is unintillegent or uninformed here. The question is a balancing act of guaranteed money for both sides that makes sense, very possibly with incentives. But I'm just a fan and not in charge of these things so I'm no going to speculate on the details. An opt out after a couple 2-3yrs could be a very interesting way to get something done that is right and fair for both sides. As a brief aside, considering production, durability, and even projection, I think Berrios is more straightforward. But a fair contract with an opt out in 2-3yrs could be a reasonable option as well.

Nick, a tremendous OP. You are logical in everything you state, complete with the angst of making hard moves that we aren't sure have to be made. I am a fan and a lover of the players on hand. I'd also like to think I'm smart enough and practical enough to look at the larger picture. It's funny how many really good players we COULD trade away, Berrios, Buxton, Arraez, Polanco, Rogers, Donaldson, etc. So if we have that many good players to trade, boy, it sure looks like we still have a good nucleus to keep and re-tool instead of blowing everything up! Funny how we talk sometimes about going ALL IN and then want to blow it all up after a disappointing year. Forgetting extensions for the moment, I would keep both Berrios and Buxton for 2022 and have the best season we could have with a re-tool. Unload them mid-season if things fall apart. (I don't think that will happen). Keep Rogers as well. The pen needs to be re-worked and we give up our best arm? Again, I'm talking about a good nucleus of talent to rebound and re-tool. I hate losing Cruz. And he MIGHT defy father time another year or two, God bless him. But with other needs, can you bet on a 41/42yo DH for $15+M? No. Let Cruz bring back whatever you can get and let him chase a ring out or respect for his career knowing you won't have him back in 2022. Trade Donaldson if you can for the same reasons, if you don't have to give up too much $. Otherwise, keep him for now and let him transition to the Cruz role of DH and mentor while still playing some in the field. (I think he's gone in some sort of deal). I'd keep Robles because 30yo RP with a quality history and bring it consistently in the mid 90's and have high K rates aren't always easy to find. He was doing just fine until asked to pitch in 4 straight games recently. Trade the expiring contracts and Donalson if you can. Does someone believe in Sano enough to move him? We could get burned on that one, and someone could gloat about what they got. But with options available, maybe it's worth the risk for $ relief for 2022. Give me a quality SP the equivalent of Maeda and Berrios, a decent/quality SS, a solid RH OF who can HOPEFULLY cover CF with Kepler and just be a solid offensive producer overall, a quality RH bullpen arm and a semi-decent extra arm with some proven history, and I'm good. Asking too much? Not really. Trade or FA, the SP costs the most. I'm not asking for Story at SS, just a solid, quality SS until someone else is ready. Simmons, Galvin, SOMEONE?! Tell me we can't find a quality RH OF that won't break the bank? Same with a $5-7M RP to team with Rogers. Quit complaining about the lack of SP produced by the FO. Dobber, who still has potential and gave us a huge boost in 2020, and Ober are just the first wave. You can't just WISH that Duran, Balazovic, Winder, Canterino, Sands, Enlow, Vallimont, Rijo, etc, will just all be healthy and skip over missing 2020 and be ready to become instant mainstays, much less immediate studs. There is too much talent available here to blow things up and begin again. Keep what you have, make some trade and FA moves to augment what you have, try like hell for extensions for Berrios and Buxton that make sense. But don't implode what you have because of a disappointing season.

I am SO JEALOUS of those who live in the cities to visit Target Field or watch the Saints as they will. (But for a variety of reasons, happy to live in Omaha instead! Lol) For various reasons, not sure the plan of my dad and I journeying up there for this season is going to happen. But I can live vicariously through you and John and everyone else who had a good time and tipped a few back in the LF bleachers this past weekend. Really hope to join you guys soon for a Meltdown and a game. But as I've often stated, the world is just better with baseball, I learned the game in car and transistor radios in my youth from my dad and my own learned knowledge from him. I have fought late night static due to west coast games just to hear what the Twins might do. This season sucks due to expectation. Period, But even though I can't attend....hopefully the Saints here in Omaha for the second half....its just wonderful to have baseball back with fans and hope and disappointment and fun watching young players and dreaming about tomorrow. And that's the beauty of baseball....there is always tomorrow.

Sorry for my language, but screw one bad game. He deserves this! And to echo a previous comment....how about that extension?

BTW, just saw an article about Perez on the Twins MLB site about him and his family. Didn't hardly play as a freshman, covid wiped out most of 2020 as it did for everyone. He literally grew up around baseball as his father is a very successful HS coach who has sent multitudes of players to college and the pro's and his mother is a highly successful head coach of powerhouse UCLA softball and has won multiple championships as a player, asst. coach and head coach. I made the comment he was an athletic diamond in the rough selection previously. Thinking more and more about that. Check out the story.

Just spitballing here, but I think it's a little hard to draft a HS talent right now unless you get them early. So many kids didn't even get to play in 2020 so your evaluation is limited. (This also applies to football and other sports). Additionally, college players have the option of returning to school for an additional season due to covid if they want to, or don't like their selection round and contract offer. And if you draft late, as the Twins are this year, your payout pool is obviously smaller than teams drafting high, You combine all of that, it could be hard to actually save $ by signing someone under slot value to have enough $ left over to take a 3rd day flier on a HS kid at this time. I think the Twins might save a little $ on Miller to be used to sign someone else in the top 10. Unless I missed something, I think every college player drafted has another year open to them if they wish to return. I just don't think there is the $ flexibility to draft a HS player and overpay him right now unless you want to let other draftees walk over a small offer.

Agreed. When Canterino was signed the early reports were that he had thrown more than enough IP to just report to the Ft Myers complex to work out and then be shut down. Instead he actually got to throw a few innings. I would expect something similar here, These kids ALL missed but 2-3 weeks in 2020. A majority didn't get a full, normal schedule in 2021. But a couple weeks to a full month of rest once their seasons were done I'd be surprised if a few of them didn't get at least a few innings in the FCL or at Ft Myers proper.

Think I read there are 7 All Stars this year taken after the 10th round, so while the talent and projections of the selections today might not have the same floors or ceilings as rounds 1-10, these aren't throw away picks in any way. Just looking at programs, numbers, upside and overall balancing of positions, I think I like what the Twins did today. More arms! I'm good with that, especially considering this wasn't supposed to be a great draft and it was reportedly heaviest in college arms. Birdsell is all about projection. Barely played as a freshman and 2020 was a washout for everyone after a couple of weeks. And then has a rotator cuff issue in his ONLY "full" season. He is clay to mold and all about health and projection. His write up says high velocity and nice slider, I would bet he gets a shot at starting initially to work, get innings, hopefully find a decent 3rd offering and ends up in the pen. I have no problem with a big arm flier in the 11th for the pen. I also have no problem with Nowlin as a small school LH with high K numbers as a RP in tbe 19th. Not all RP have to be converted starters. I just have no clue what to expect from the other 4 RP selected. I'm sure the Twins see arms and projection to work with and each offers up something different. Time will tell. But Festsa from Seton Hall HAS to be interesting, At 6' 6" and only 185lbs...if even close to accurate...you would think maturity and work would have the college junior over 200lbs in a couple of years. With any kind of control and secondary offerings you'd have to expect additional velocity will be coming. Maybe he's a shorter Ober?? Two more infielders today from decent programs/conferences. Perez has played some SS and 3B in addition to being 2B. He didn't hit AT ALL in his first full starting season but lead UCLA in HR with 11?! Hmmm...interesting. And he can draw BB? I'm guessing here but an athlete who hasn't come close to his potential yet? Meanwhile Neuse from TX Tech has hit, has a high OB and SB speed and production drafted a couple picks later. Again, pure speculation from me, but Perez is the untapped athlete with higher ceiling and Neuse is the more proven player but locked in at 2B as a table setter option? Absolutely fine with a 3rd catcher being picked. The last couple of years the Twins have drafted and signed quite a few catchers and have transitioned a couple guys behind the plate. The system is not devoid of catchers and a few have potential. But beyond Jeffers and Rortvedt, they are all young and at A ball. It's an important position that is often underrated. Defense and working with the staff is most important. But finding a few guys who can actually produce offensively is like finding gold. So drafting 3 out of 20 is fine by me. I look forward to learning more about Fedko, the OF from UConn. How good is his defense, range and arm? Because his triple slash this past season is impressive, even in a non power BB league. Apparently he has some power and decent speed as well. So just exactly who is he? Anxious to know. Call me crazy, and I like how the Twins spread things around for 21 picks, but I'm kinda disappointed they only took ONE OF. But then again, past drafts, trades and international signings, they have added a nice handful of OF options so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I really liked the 2019 draft as I thought it brought in a lot of talent that we are just really starting to see now as those players either didn't play in 2020 or got a half season or less. I wasn't crazy about what they did in 2020 with their handful of selections, but remain hopeful. Unless I'm missing something, Soularie and Raya have yet to see the field. But I like the balance of choices over the past 3 drafts and the early returns from 2019 thus far.

Agreed. But, love ya dude, at some point we all just have to drop the Badoo angst. I hope the best for the kid, I really do. And maybe he will continue to excel and maybe he will bottom out. Maybe he's out "payment" for receiving Santana as a rule 5, traded for, balancing act in the scheme of the cosmos. But we need to move on. IF this was a past Twins team coming off a 90-100 loss season, they may have protected him. But an A level ball player with missed time is just not going to be protected on the 40 man for a contending team with players ahead of him in the system. Weird stuff just happens! And I know you were only making a simple comment, but as an organization and fan base, I really hope we can just let this one go. Kirilloff and Larnach are here to stay. They both impress the hell out of me with their approach, despite being rookies, Larnach being pressed in to full time duty earlier than expected maybe more so. And AK has been playing and producing with a wrist that needs rest and treatment. These 2 guys are here to stay and only going to get better. We can take that away from a disappointing 2021. I was concerned that Jeffers 2020 was going to come back and bite him, It hasn but only because he's still so young. We can all see the potential. In a lost season, everything he's doing and gaining and learning will help his future. I feel bad for Rortvedt at this point and hope be will take what he's experiencing right now and use it to grow when he's sent down when Garver comes back. The same for Celistino. He's been pressed in to duty AFTER Cave, Kepler, Refsnyder and even Garlick taking turns in CF. And now Gordon has been learning CF on the fly. Not going off topic, just extrapolating how a lost season can bring value of experience to AK and Larnach and others. And I've mentioned those who could and should benefit going forward, (keep Gordon playing for goodness sake)! But you also mentioned Miranda. Even though he's not part of the OP, sorry Cody, we just can't ignore what he's doing. From every report we've ever heard and listened to, it was only about him finding his power to go along with his approach and potential defense and versatility as a good athlete to establish himself. He's doing that now. Again, not trying to steal the OP. What the Twins OF needs is a quality, reliable RH bat to work with Larnach, Kepler and Kirilloff....who will also play 1B....though I just don't know right now who that will be. IF Donaldson is traded, Arraez is the first guy to fill in. But in this lost season, there will be an open 40 man spot for Miranda to continue to step forward. There will be growing pains as there have been for Kirilloff and Larnach, but at some point you also have to just promote and "run with it" in regard to a top prospect.

My thoughts, with apologies I didn't have time between work and lawn work afterwards to read everyone's comments. I just want to toss my $.02 worth. Even with the crapshoot that is the ML draft, your top 10 selections remain pretty important. And as an outsider looking in, I'm really pleased thus far. As I stated in the 1st day thread, pleasantly surprised by Petty and just don't understand why/how a HS pitcher with 100MPH heat and some decent secondary offerings and projectability lasts that late. I'm trusting the Twins scouting department watching an athletic, defensive SS probably more intently than others. I'm trusting their hitting projections at this point over the scorecard I've seen concerning his hitting and power potential. But I was very pleased with day 2, again as an outsider who pretends to know anything. I laughed and shook my head about comments regarding Big 10 pitchers, I get it. But there has been a real shift the past few years in the Big 10 when you look at Indiana, Michigan and Nebraska, etc. And I applaud 3 LH college arms added day 2. It's not only a need, but a trio of solid arms with results and projectability that have potential to add velocity and develop the rest of their repertoire, which is exactly the formula they've been following with Canterino, Sands, Winder and others. I wouldn't be surprised if Macleod, with professional coaching, doesn't turn out to be the best of the three. Both catchers, if the reports are correct, have defensive chops. Cardenas has flashed offense before a disappointing 2021. And Winel comes from a smaller school who missed the abbreviated 2020 season due to arm surgery, That can be a big deal, But if his arm is good going forward, sure seems like he has some potential in both sides of the plate offense and defense. The organization has a handful of interesting catching options at A ball but needed to add to that, I think they would have jumped at Mack if he had slid a couple more spots over SS Miller. But they got a "slider" in Cardenas and another solid option in Winkel if his arm remains sound. Just not sure what to think of the infielders. OK State has a good program and Ecarnacion-stroud seems to have the bat and the arm, but there are questions about hands and range. Not trying to be a blind optomist, but I've seen a number of guys including some great Twins 3B, that had similar questions before time and work turned them in to quality defenders. With a bat and arm, he's worth working with, For those who oppose the Twins early college bat choices they waited until the 4th round this year, lol. But a big bat and a good arm are WORTH taking a look at, right? Rucker reminds me of Steer and an infield version of 2020 draftee Alerick Soularie, also from Tenessee. A decent bat and glove with offensive potential who may not play up enough to be a top prospect but who may have a ceiling we don't know yet that could surprise. Yake seems like a possible Dozier clone. And there is merit in that. You don't draft from pure NEED in the ML draft like you do in the NBA or NFL, but you can still draft in regard to organizational need. So far, between 2019 and 2021, with a few others tossed in, the Twins have hit the infield pretty hard. They've added a pair of top 10 selections at catcher to follow Jeffers and Rortvedt. And then they added a trio of intriguing college LH arms, much needed, after taking a HIGH upside HS arm. The only selection that I'm scratching my head about is Adams from Sacramento State. The numbers just don't scream anything. I need to look closer, assuming I can find anything of value it must be build and length and something they see potentially. [Winder part 2]? Not entirely sold on the college infielders, but really like everything they've done the first 2 days.

Very surprised by both of these picks. But surprised pleasantly so. My gut told me the first selection would be a college pitcher....which I would have been OK with...or a college bat. With the crapshoot that is the ML draft, you just don't know what you're going to be able to grab in the late 20's. Think Levi Michael for example. I LOVE the pick of Petty as a 6' 2" HS kid who almost certainly isn't done growing and filling out yet but who already throws 100MPH and has at least one additional quality offering with potential. Honestly, I'm surprised he lasted that late. His ceiling alone should have had him gone 5-10 spots earlier. As compared earlier, think of Green picked 2nd or 3rd just a few years ago with similar velocity and projectability. I am not going to pretend to know anything about Noah Miller at this point except for the one scouting scorecard I saw and what Johnson has to say about him. Now I'm confused by the scorecard I saw because the numbers don't equate to what I hear Johnson saying. Scorecard says a defense first SS with a quality arm...which I'm OK with but not this high...with a 60 for fielding and a 55 for arm. No problem! He's got a 50 for speed again no problem. He doesn't have to be a basestealing wizard or speed demon to still be athletic and play a good SS. But the 45 hit and 40 power seems to fly in the face of the Twins' opinion. But with so many kids missing seasons due to covid, with travel and scouting time interrupted, with kids missing camps and not being able to play on travel teams, etcm I guess I'm going to side with the team/scouts that have been watching the kid closely for the longest period of time. Further more I think there is a real or imagined sort of prejudice against kids from the Midwest, northern states and Canada often because they simply don't have some of the same year round opportunities that others have. So I love the Petty choice and I'm super intrigued by a HS defensive playing SS that the Twins think has real hitting potential.

I like this thread idea! 1] Keep Ober on the bump every 5th day! He probably won't be a STUD, but he has control some wicked moving stuff, deception, and new velocity. Quit arguing about IP! The Twins are working him in and ramping him up. 2] When Dobnak is healthy, get him out there. He flashed a little late in 2019. He looked really good in 2020. He looked great in ST this year, FWIW, but has been bounced between starting and relieving and some injuries. Are we so focused on a disappointing season that we can ONLY see bad performance vs good performance? Let him be healthy and take the mound and see what he can do. You realize he's barely beyond ROOKIE status, right? Right? 3] When Happ is gone, and probably Pineda as well, there is room in the rotation. A lot of people want Barnes. He's actually been promoted fairly aggressively, so the Twins see something they like. Unfortunately, I just don't see it right now. I just don't see enough STUFF. I could be wrong. He may have earned a shot. ButWinder and Duran....assuming full healthy....should be part of the 2nd half rotation. Whether you go a 6 man rotation or not, or piggyback some games, run with 6 SO. 4] Just quit believing Colome is going to find himself again and forget his option year. Let him go, He MIGHT find himself next year with a different organization. But sometimes guys just don't work out or fit. Move on, Bring up Hamilton. He's a former top prospect who has gone through hell and back but has been doing well at AAA. Give him a shot. Promote the BP arms at AA Wichita to AAA and give them a shot. Injuries across the board, and I'm sure we're not the only team, have made us grab waiver wire pitchers to help, fill in, and carry some hope of a surprise. But trust in your system post 2020 and let a few guys surprise you! You are NOT going to build a super bullpen for 2022 with your milb talent! But you COULD find an arm or two who surprises at some point. Farrell and Law COULD be part of 2022 with a few smart additions. But if you are truly looking ahead, just recognize you have a handful or arms who might help next year and get them the experience they need to get ready. 5] The roster for 2022, IMO, needs a 5th OF who can play a decent OF and be a solid producer at the plate. Kepler should be a 120 game player in RF and backup CF. But he needs a partner. Do they have that partner in Rooker or Garlic or Refsnyder? This is a spot I want to see auditioned. Either we have a real option here or we need to find one, 6] And thjs is where you will see me really argue against Rocco and the FO. Gordon! How in hell can we protect Gordon, believe in Gordon, play Gordon at SS primarily through his milb development, play him at SS in ST, and refuse to play him at SS at the ML level? On the fly he's learned to play CF and looked at least competent at doing so. And the Twins probably need to find a full time SS so Polanco can remain as a potential stud at 2B, while still being able to fill in competently at SS. But why in hell isnt Grodon allowed to play SS at the ML level at this point? SOMEBODY is being really stupid at this point

His delivery is not "flaily" though I appreciate the attempt to create a new adjective, lol. I believe what you were attempting to describe is that his delivery resembles a trebuchet...long range medieval weapon....that "slings" destructive objects. In this case, some wicked pitches. The side by side of his slider and curve is awesome! I see the slider biting down and to the left side of the plate and the curve having a little more "hump" and more of a traditional 12-6 downward movement. The fact that they look the same early but have different movement kate and are a couple MPH different can make each devastating to both RH and LH batters. With any sort/form of change....straight, circle, split-finger, etc...he has every tool to be a front line SP. His only problem is time. With no back issue, he is probably at AAA right now with Winder. I don't know if he will reach the ML, even as a September call up, due to lost time, but I agree with some caution. Stretch him out, push him, promote him, but a whole lost season has to have to affect on an arm that lost expected developmental time as well as just normal use. I think he'll be ready, at worst, early in 2022. Adendum: Duran looked pretty good until his "forearm tightness". Please correct me if wrong, but Canterino and Sands (and Rijo), have been temporarily shelved for the same or similar. We/They actually get lucky and that's all it is....no Enlow season-ending surgery...Duran should make his debut yet this year to get his feet wet. Sands could easily join Balazovic in St Paul and Canterino would have a shot. Rijo and Vallimont...who also had late starts...could easily be a half step behind by finishing strong at AA.

I am not going to argue numbers that are present. We can debate number metrics, and often do, and there are so many that they can be skewed slightly to argue different points. But not all of Alcala's numbers are great. There. Done. But analysis and projection are simply NOT the only way to evaluate a player, especially a young player still developing. I still believe there is room for they proverbial "eye test" when examing a young ballplayer. And while I haven't watched every game....and have been rather absent of late from game discussions...I've watched Alcala a lot. What I see is an outstanding FB that is nasty, though he misses at times, and an outstanding slider that also misses at times. Yes, he gets a little wild at times. Nobody wants to admit it, as we all want a big, young arm to dominate, but it does take a little while to learn control and just "how to pitch". Any kind of decent 3rd offering should only increase his potential. But IMO, other than a bit more consistency, what I see is a young guy just learning how to finish off batters and an inning at times. I've seen Alcala lay an egg to the first hitter, and then set the opponent down. I've seen him, a few times, get 2 outs and look dominate and then allow a big hit with those 2 outs. The NUMBERS don't show a talented arm really close to dominating, but the EYE shows you that a little more time and consistency you might have a really good arm in the pen. I have a lot of faith he's going to be good to great in the very near future.

Just sticking to the OP due to basic principal and because I worked today and spent the evening talking Twins with my father so no time to read and address all the posts here...at least not yet...lol. Tom, you are 100% right with everything you laid out. And you are also 100% wrong as well. HUH?! How can that be? Simply because 2020 is still casting a shadow over 2021 and there is another, potential, cloud hanging over 2022. The simple truth is we are so in the dark as to what other franchises are thinking. There is every reason for a contending team to look at a healthy Pineda...with another couple starts to show he's BACK...and offer something at least decent back. Same with Cruz. I mean, we're only talking half a season, but we're also talking about a real difference maker for a run. So who is willing and able to step forward? Happ is LH and breathing with a good history and a good 1st month in 2021. A couple solid starts before the deadline increases his value, and teams will be interested, but he's not going to bring anything special back. Does any contending team need a true SS? I just don't know if Simmons has value right now. Robles has been pretty good for most of the year until the Twins pitched him 4 consecutive days. Suddenly he looked like a mediocre middle guy after that. So what's his value in trade vs keeping or re-signing? Funny how Aaron and John were talking in their latest podcast how the Twins were at the epicenter of the trade market. They could move some expiring contracts and get what they can, OR, just auction off almost anyone and everyone. But then you look at a list of about 8-10 guys you start to wonder why in hell you'd do that because you'd have a good team if you kept most of them. Barring a surprise offer, the Twins just aren't going to do much or get much. The decision they have to make is gaining a couple A level prospects with some potential...think another Rijo arm...OR, grab a bullpen arm at AA or AAA who was a failed SP making the transition to RP with some upside. Think an Alcala type. Sorry, but I'd take the BP options vs a low A flier because I trust the FO draft strategy and the good looking arms in the system and look for bona-fide, interesting BP arms that could help the next season or two. NOT going to debate at this moment about promotion and health the Twins could have a half dozen arms to audition for 2022. Donaldson is a real key here. Keep him and you still have a quality player offensively and defensively for the next 2yrs who may transition to more 1B and DH. Trade him, give him a chance to play for a contending team, you MIGHT get something back. I'd take a quality RH OF with decent defense or a decent arm in a heartbeat. I might even take back a bag of balls back if it meant salary relief for 2022 and beyond. But he still has value. So if you have to pay something like $25-30M to make a trade, do you really gain enough $ savings/value to make the deal worthwhile? Other than Donaldson, I think the Twins trading will be small, understated, and we will hope for a decent arm of some sort, or decent RH hitting OF. The biggest reward, as hard as it is to digest, is advancing what we have and auditioning them all to get ready for 2022 and beyond. The re-tool is already taking place. And despite W/L how much fun could it be watching Larnach, AK, Jeffers, Gordon, Ober, Winder, Duran (hopefully), Miranda and others the rest of the year? I don't WANT to trade Cruz or Donaldson. These guys are GOOD. But one is probably not coming back next year no matter. And one is good enough to help a team get over the hump offensively and defensively. Hello Mets! I'm actually OK if Donaldson stays because he has value. But I'm also OK if he's gone for $ relief. My only question is where does $ relief start and end that makes sense?

Was listening to the pre-game on the way home tonight and a national writer, Matt "something"...sorry I was driving...spoke about the quality of Rogers. After the 2018 season he wrote an article about the best RP nobody knew, Rogers of course. And the conversation continued about how this season in particular, he was one of the top RP facing high stress situations, The point is simple Rogers is elite, or borderline elite depending on your perspective, for some time now, But he's being used as a fireman and not as a closer. We've all seen this transition taking place for some time now, A "closer" facing the bottom of an order and getting a save is a mirage of performance. NOT that a "closer" only faces that, but it adds to the narrative that what we perceive as a traditional closer doesn't have the same value we used to assign. (Agents hate that of course). The pen needs to be re-built. But Rogers is elite, Duffey has been good, but not great in 2021, Do you want to bet against him at this point? I don't. Everyone thinks we should trade Robles for whatever we can get. But until be was asked to pitch four straight days recently, he's been doing quite well. Don't be lazy, look at his career before 2020. Look at his numbers this season, velocity and K rate, and understand he got rode hard a week ago, and then tell me he's just an easy FA replacement in 2022. I am IN on keeping him and re-signjng him. Unfortunately for the season, this is the perfect opportunity for Alcala to gain experience and trust. And if you've watched the games he's pitched in, you can see he is just "so close" to figuring it out. Building a quality BP isn't as easy as we wish it would be. Think about the Tigers a few years back when they had an amazing rotation and deadly lineup but couldn't win it all because their pen was aweful. The 2019 Twins BP was solid early with duct tape and bailing wire, Better performance and a good trade gave them a solid pen. Holdovers and development and surprises gave them one of the best pens in 2020. Trade or FA, I want a RH arm on par with Rogers. Trade or FA, I want an arm equivalent to Duffey and Robles. My arguement has been, and continues to be, the Twins have a 4 man base to build on for 2022. Add 2 more arms to that, you have a pen needing only depth. Matthew Lenz has pointed out Thielbar shouldn't be dismissed. I agree, But at some point, I have to wonder about age. And I laugh when I read comments about a number of 30yr old RP in the pen. Why would you expect to have a bullpen made up of 20yr olds unless you were re-building? Keep the 4 you trust. (My opinion). Add 2 more arms that actually have experience and production. See if Thielbar can do it for another year. See if Stashak can come back healthy and be what he has looked like early. See if Farrell is REALLY a solid middle man. Keep promoting some arms that have a chance, Moran, Neff, Moran, etc. But my arguement remains the same...and I'll accept if I turn out to look foolish...there is a basis for a 2022 pen if we hold strong, and just build on what we have. *Haven't even touched on Thorpe and Smeltzer as a LH option.