DocBauer

Agreed. But, love ya dude, at some point we all just have to drop the Badoo angst. I hope the best for the kid, I really do. And maybe he will continue to excel and maybe he will bottom out. Maybe he's out "payment" for receiving Santana as a rule 5, traded for, balancing act in the scheme of the cosmos. But we need to move on. IF this was a past Twins team coming off a 90-100 loss season, they may have protected him. But an A level ball player with missed time is just not going to be protected on the 40 man for a contending team with players ahead of him in the system. Weird stuff just happens! And I know you were only making a simple comment, but as an organization and fan base, I really hope we can just let this one go. Kirilloff and Larnach are here to stay. They both impress the hell out of me with their approach, despite being rookies, Larnach being pressed in to full time duty earlier than expected maybe more so. And AK has been playing and producing with a wrist that needs rest and treatment. These 2 guys are here to stay and only going to get better. We can take that away from a disappointing 2021. I was concerned that Jeffers 2020 was going to come back and bite him, It hasn but only because he's still so young. We can all see the potential. In a lost season, everything he's doing and gaining and learning will help his future. I feel bad for Rortvedt at this point and hope be will take what he's experiencing right now and use it to grow when he's sent down when Garver comes back. The same for Celistino. He's been pressed in to duty AFTER Cave, Kepler, Refsnyder and even Garlick taking turns in CF. And now Gordon has been learning CF on the fly. Not going off topic, just extrapolating how a lost season can bring value of experience to AK and Larnach and others. And I've mentioned those who could and should benefit going forward, (keep Gordon playing for goodness sake)! But you also mentioned Miranda. Even though he's not part of the OP, sorry Cody, we just can't ignore what he's doing. From every report we've ever heard and listened to, it was only about him finding his power to go along with his approach and potential defense and versatility as a good athlete to establish himself. He's doing that now. Again, not trying to steal the OP. What the Twins OF needs is a quality, reliable RH bat to work with Larnach, Kepler and Kirilloff....who will also play 1B....though I just don't know right now who that will be. IF Donaldson is traded, Arraez is the first guy to fill in. But in this lost season, there will be an open 40 man spot for Miranda to continue to step forward. There will be growing pains as there have been for Kirilloff and Larnach, but at some point you also have to just promote and "run with it" in regard to a top prospect.

My thoughts, with apologies I didn't have time between work and lawn work afterwards to read everyone's comments. I just want to toss my $.02 worth. Even with the crapshoot that is the ML draft, your top 10 selections remain pretty important. And as an outsider looking in, I'm really pleased thus far. As I stated in the 1st day thread, pleasantly surprised by Petty and just don't understand why/how a HS pitcher with 100MPH heat and some decent secondary offerings and projectability lasts that late. I'm trusting the Twins scouting department watching an athletic, defensive SS probably more intently than others. I'm trusting their hitting projections at this point over the scorecard I've seen concerning his hitting and power potential. But I was very pleased with day 2, again as an outsider who pretends to know anything. I laughed and shook my head about comments regarding Big 10 pitchers, I get it. But there has been a real shift the past few years in the Big 10 when you look at Indiana, Michigan and Nebraska, etc. And I applaud 3 LH college arms added day 2. It's not only a need, but a trio of solid arms with results and projectability that have potential to add velocity and develop the rest of their repertoire, which is exactly the formula they've been following with Canterino, Sands, Winder and others. I wouldn't be surprised if Macleod, with professional coaching, doesn't turn out to be the best of the three. Both catchers, if the reports are correct, have defensive chops. Cardenas has flashed offense before a disappointing 2021. And Winel comes from a smaller school who missed the abbreviated 2020 season due to arm surgery, That can be a big deal, But if his arm is good going forward, sure seems like he has some potential in both sides of the plate offense and defense. The organization has a handful of interesting catching options at A ball but needed to add to that, I think they would have jumped at Mack if he had slid a couple more spots over SS Miller. But they got a "slider" in Cardenas and another solid option in Winkel if his arm remains sound. Just not sure what to think of the infielders. OK State has a good program and Ecarnacion-stroud seems to have the bat and the arm, but there are questions about hands and range. Not trying to be a blind optomist, but I've seen a number of guys including some great Twins 3B, that had similar questions before time and work turned them in to quality defenders. With a bat and arm, he's worth working with, For those who oppose the Twins early college bat choices they waited until the 4th round this year, lol. But a big bat and a good arm are WORTH taking a look at, right? Rucker reminds me of Steer and an infield version of 2020 draftee Alerick Soularie, also from Tenessee. A decent bat and glove with offensive potential who may not play up enough to be a top prospect but who may have a ceiling we don't know yet that could surprise. Yake seems like a possible Dozier clone. And there is merit in that. You don't draft from pure NEED in the ML draft like you do in the NBA or NFL, but you can still draft in regard to organizational need. So far, between 2019 and 2021, with a few others tossed in, the Twins have hit the infield pretty hard. They've added a pair of top 10 selections at catcher to follow Jeffers and Rortvedt. And then they added a trio of intriguing college LH arms, much needed, after taking a HIGH upside HS arm. The only selection that I'm scratching my head about is Adams from Sacramento State. The numbers just don't scream anything. I need to look closer, assuming I can find anything of value it must be build and length and something they see potentially. [Winder part 2]? Not entirely sold on the college infielders, but really like everything they've done the first 2 days.

Very surprised by both of these picks. But surprised pleasantly so. My gut told me the first selection would be a college pitcher....which I would have been OK with...or a college bat. With the crapshoot that is the ML draft, you just don't know what you're going to be able to grab in the late 20's. Think Levi Michael for example. I LOVE the pick of Petty as a 6' 2" HS kid who almost certainly isn't done growing and filling out yet but who already throws 100MPH and has at least one additional quality offering with potential. Honestly, I'm surprised he lasted that late. His ceiling alone should have had him gone 5-10 spots earlier. As compared earlier, think of Green picked 2nd or 3rd just a few years ago with similar velocity and projectability. I am not going to pretend to know anything about Noah Miller at this point except for the one scouting scorecard I saw and what Johnson has to say about him. Now I'm confused by the scorecard I saw because the numbers don't equate to what I hear Johnson saying. Scorecard says a defense first SS with a quality arm...which I'm OK with but not this high...with a 60 for fielding and a 55 for arm. No problem! He's got a 50 for speed again no problem. He doesn't have to be a basestealing wizard or speed demon to still be athletic and play a good SS. But the 45 hit and 40 power seems to fly in the face of the Twins' opinion. But with so many kids missing seasons due to covid, with travel and scouting time interrupted, with kids missing camps and not being able to play on travel teams, etcm I guess I'm going to side with the team/scouts that have been watching the kid closely for the longest period of time. Further more I think there is a real or imagined sort of prejudice against kids from the Midwest, northern states and Canada often because they simply don't have some of the same year round opportunities that others have. So I love the Petty choice and I'm super intrigued by a HS defensive playing SS that the Twins think has real hitting potential.

His delivery is not "flaily" though I appreciate the attempt to create a new adjective, lol. I believe what you were attempting to describe is that his delivery resembles a trebuchet...long range medieval weapon....that "slings" destructive objects. In this case, some wicked pitches. The side by side of his slider and curve is awesome! I see the slider biting down and to the left side of the plate and the curve having a little more "hump" and more of a traditional 12-6 downward movement. The fact that they look the same early but have different movement kate and are a couple MPH different can make each devastating to both RH and LH batters. With any sort/form of change....straight, circle, split-finger, etc...he has every tool to be a front line SP. His only problem is time. With no back issue, he is probably at AAA right now with Winder. I don't know if he will reach the ML, even as a September call up, due to lost time, but I agree with some caution. Stretch him out, push him, promote him, but a whole lost season has to have to affect on an arm that lost expected developmental time as well as just normal use. I think he'll be ready, at worst, early in 2022. Adendum: Duran looked pretty good until his "forearm tightness". Please correct me if wrong, but Canterino and Sands (and Rijo), have been temporarily shelved for the same or similar. We/They actually get lucky and that's all it is....no Enlow season-ending surgery...Duran should make his debut yet this year to get his feet wet. Sands could easily join Balazovic in St Paul and Canterino would have a shot. Rijo and Vallimont...who also had late starts...could easily be a half step behind by finishing strong at AA.

I am not going to argue numbers that are present. We can debate number metrics, and often do, and there are so many that they can be skewed slightly to argue different points. But not all of Alcala's numbers are great. There. Done. But analysis and projection are simply NOT the only way to evaluate a player, especially a young player still developing. I still believe there is room for they proverbial "eye test" when examing a young ballplayer. And while I haven't watched every game....and have been rather absent of late from game discussions...I've watched Alcala a lot. What I see is an outstanding FB that is nasty, though he misses at times, and an outstanding slider that also misses at times. Yes, he gets a little wild at times. Nobody wants to admit it, as we all want a big, young arm to dominate, but it does take a little while to learn control and just "how to pitch". Any kind of decent 3rd offering should only increase his potential. But IMO, other than a bit more consistency, what I see is a young guy just learning how to finish off batters and an inning at times. I've seen Alcala lay an egg to the first hitter, and then set the opponent down. I've seen him, a few times, get 2 outs and look dominate and then allow a big hit with those 2 outs. The NUMBERS don't show a talented arm really close to dominating, but the EYE shows you that a little more time and consistency you might have a really good arm in the pen. I have a lot of faith he's going to be good to great in the very near future.

Just sticking to the OP due to basic principal and because I worked today and spent the evening talking Twins with my father so no time to read and address all the posts here...at least not yet...lol. Tom, you are 100% right with everything you laid out. And you are also 100% wrong as well. HUH?! How can that be? Simply because 2020 is still casting a shadow over 2021 and there is another, potential, cloud hanging over 2022. The simple truth is we are so in the dark as to what other franchises are thinking. There is every reason for a contending team to look at a healthy Pineda...with another couple starts to show he's BACK...and offer something at least decent back. Same with Cruz. I mean, we're only talking half a season, but we're also talking about a real difference maker for a run. So who is willing and able to step forward? Happ is LH and breathing with a good history and a good 1st month in 2021. A couple solid starts before the deadline increases his value, and teams will be interested, but he's not going to bring anything special back. Does any contending team need a true SS? I just don't know if Simmons has value right now. Robles has been pretty good for most of the year until the Twins pitched him 4 consecutive days. Suddenly he looked like a mediocre middle guy after that. So what's his value in trade vs keeping or re-signing? Funny how Aaron and John were talking in their latest podcast how the Twins were at the epicenter of the trade market. They could move some expiring contracts and get what they can, OR, just auction off almost anyone and everyone. But then you look at a list of about 8-10 guys you start to wonder why in hell you'd do that because you'd have a good team if you kept most of them. Barring a surprise offer, the Twins just aren't going to do much or get much. The decision they have to make is gaining a couple A level prospects with some potential...think another Rijo arm...OR, grab a bullpen arm at AA or AAA who was a failed SP making the transition to RP with some upside. Think an Alcala type. Sorry, but I'd take the BP options vs a low A flier because I trust the FO draft strategy and the good looking arms in the system and look for bona-fide, interesting BP arms that could help the next season or two. NOT going to debate at this moment about promotion and health the Twins could have a half dozen arms to audition for 2022. Donaldson is a real key here. Keep him and you still have a quality player offensively and defensively for the next 2yrs who may transition to more 1B and DH. Trade him, give him a chance to play for a contending team, you MIGHT get something back. I'd take a quality RH OF with decent defense or a decent arm in a heartbeat. I might even take back a bag of balls back if it meant salary relief for 2022 and beyond. But he still has value. So if you have to pay something like $25-30M to make a trade, do you really gain enough $ savings/value to make the deal worthwhile? Other than Donaldson, I think the Twins trading will be small, understated, and we will hope for a decent arm of some sort, or decent RH hitting OF. The biggest reward, as hard as it is to digest, is advancing what we have and auditioning them all to get ready for 2022 and beyond. The re-tool is already taking place. And despite W/L how much fun could it be watching Larnach, AK, Jeffers, Gordon, Ober, Winder, Duran (hopefully), Miranda and others the rest of the year? I don't WANT to trade Cruz or Donaldson. These guys are GOOD. But one is probably not coming back next year no matter. And one is good enough to help a team get over the hump offensively and defensively. Hello Mets! I'm actually OK if Donaldson stays because he has value. But I'm also OK if he's gone for $ relief. My only question is where does $ relief start and end that makes sense?

He has produced good to amazing numbers in his career thus far when healthy. Right now his biggest opponent isn't just gaining greater command/control, it's opportunity after not having a 2020 season, like everyone else. We're all frustrated by what we perceive as slow promotions this year. But let's not forget a late start and milb is just approaching their mid point, (I'm still objecting sternly to adding playoffs at the last minute as opposed to having another couple of weeks in the season for everyone)! The Twins have started to promote the last week or so. They need to be aggressive and do more, and this includes Moran amongst others. The Twins are signing fliers for St Paul right now due to injury and promotion. But AA Wichita has a couple guys that need to be up tomorrow. Really, who is blocking them except a couple fliers and a couple journeyman. Get him up!

Absolutely 100% agree extra games for everyone is far more important than playoffs after there being no 2020 season. Just a no-brainer. A last moment decision that negatively affects the players? Who's running this show the NCAA?

Just tossing this out there, but not so very long ago there was a lot of talk concerning all the changes in approach in regard to coaching in the milb system. The NEW approach is to treat each hitter as an individual and not just coach/preach a single unified approach. I believe it was Plouffe who spoke candidly about being held back by the approach of the system until he just broke free on his own and suddenly found success. Kepler and Sano were developed initially by the previous FO and previous system. Have they just not been developed to full ability because of this? Is it too late to change/develop their approach? Did Rowson make that big of a difference in 2019? Maybe he did, And I'm not asking for anyone to lose their job. And I'm not saying the current hitting coaches are poor/incompetent in any way. But maybe they are just the wrong guys for this team? I'm not saying Kepler or Sano will suddenly transform again to what we saw in 2019 with a coaching change. Maybe Rowson benefited from a fluke season? Or, maybe, did he really make a difference? If the latter is true, then a change of some sort may need to take place. When you have success as a team and get raided for coaches, it sucks but it's also a compliment to your organization. Can the FO find another Rowson difference maker? (Still assuming he was a real catalyst). I'm spitballing here but think there might be something here.

I think the point we need to clarify is Kepler as a "4th" OF. Nobody is stating he should be a true "4th OF" who only fills in. We, at least me, is really saying he'd be a 3/4 time starting OF who is also a solid CF to fill in for Buxton, thus allowing him to have the versatility of being a sort of 4th OF. In that context, his contract is absolutely not too much. What the Twins need is a RH OF bat that they can trust to be quality offensively and at least decent defensively. Now who is that guy? Could it be Rooker, Garlik or Refsnyder? I don't know. Maybe it's a small trade acquisition or a FA. And TWINFAN nails it when he states Kepler starting/playing in about 120 games provides good defense and could hit something like .260ish with 20+ HR and 75ish RBI. Picture a 2022 OF of Kirilloff splitting time at 1B, Larnach, Buxton, and Kepler with a 5th guy who is RH and can actually perform. (Yes, Arraez can figure in to LF as well). I'm really, really good with that despite that 5th guy being a mystery right now. Hypothetically, the new and improved Refsnyder would be perfect. Someone who could hit, have some pop/power and play solid/good defense. In this hypothetical, he could also be another CF option. Again, understand I'm using Refsnyder as a hypothetical example only. For him to be in the mix AT ALL he would need to get healthy soon and play out the rest of the season....with obvious regression involved....and begin to prove his new and improved self is real. But I'm just using him as an example for a multi-purpose RH hitting OF who could provide depth and flexibility and versatility. I would prefer this option, I think it's the smartest option.

Kaat wasn't available in my area because of the KC blackout so that was a bummer. I love listening to him. I don't know that the Maeda we had in 2020 is OUR Maeda, but what we have seen until today is also NOT the Maeda that pitched for the Dogers previously. Nor is the Maeda we've seen in 2021 the Maeda we saw in ST. So as far as I'm concerned, we still have a GOOD Maeda and he probably will be the rest of this season and next year. The bite is, like so much of this team/season, he wasn't himself the first half. Larnach and Kirilloff continue to impress. If you don't think Polanco and Arraez are good players and part of the future, then I'm not sure what you've been watching. Or are you only looking for the negative? I am NOT proclaiming Ober as the next great Twins pitcher. But the kid has put up video game numbers in the minors with IL stints and a FB that sat in the high 80's and low 90's. He worked very hard in the missed 2020 season to smooth out his mechanics to provide not only even better results, but to keep himself healthy. He reported once that he often didn't feel very good after starts at times. With his height and length, mechanics may be even more important. His hard work seems to have paid off as I've heard ZERO reports of injury and his velocity is up. Please drop the "extend him" arguements as his previous max IP was somewhere around 90. He missed ALL and everything in 2020 and only has a few GS in AAA before now. The Twins have been very aggressive with his promotion but are also being protective of his arm and development. They are brining him along with the idea of being part of 2022. And if you've actually watched him pitch, you can see something to be at least mildly excited about. Jax is a pitch to contact pitcher with some decent stuff, good control, who has some ceiling, but has only been a full time pitcher starting in 2019, maybe 2018.. So he has very little full milb season time until a little under half a year at AAA before being promoted early to the ML due to necessity. Around some BAD innings, he's had some good performances as well. Right now, today, with an extremely SSS size in the minors, I'd have to say his ceiling is a 4th or 5th SP who probably fits best as a middle RP/swing man. He was drafted as a flier with his AF commitment and is behind others of his age. Doesn't mean there isn't a usable arm there, just getting a late start. For those who blast the Twins for being slow to promote, I would tell you to look closer at Ober and re-consider Jax's situation. They haven't been slow with Winder either if you check things out. Drafted in 2018 and missing all of 2020, he's at AAA right now and should be with the Twins sometime the second half this season. You want Barnes to get a shot? Maybe he deserves one despite being a softer tossing pitch to contact type. And I'm NOT blasting that type of pitcher. They can be good to outstanding. But they have to have that SOMETHING to make it. Does Barnes? IDK. But he was drafted in 2017, one year before Winder. He has 2yrs of milb time and a brief stint in 2020 with the St Paul reserve team. He may get his shot but I'm just not really encouraged by his future outcome. Long way of saying the Twins aren't being slow in promoting good young arms, but 2020 and injuries have curtailed plans. And while I fully believe Winder and a HEALTHY (hopefully) Duran will be up the second half, nobody should fall asleep on Ober at this point. Don't dismiss the potential due to protecting him. They are doing so with a plan in place.

I've been a fan and supporter of his since day one and have remained hopeful of what we would see after 2019. I didn't exactly expect him to continue mash in the same way but thought we would get something close as the new normal for Max going forward. Alas, it just may not be. You can call me an apologist if you want, but I give Kepler, and about anyone else who had a poor 2020, a free pass. There were so many variables in such a weird and short season that calling 2020 an "aha" season just isn't right or fair. But no question his production has been a real bummer. And unexpected IMO. Part of the reason I just don't want to pencil Kirilloff in at 1B permanately is he's also a solid OF and I want flexibility in case Kepler is traded or his role changes. I'm OK with the right trade a good trade if one is available, I believe the entire FO and staff are going to be looking at changes from tweaking the roster to tweaking certain approaches to maybe tweaking the coaching staff. (Hitting instructors). Max is still a bounceback candidate and I sure wouldn't want to sell low on him. I agree that a good, solid RH bat to complement what we have on hand could be really smart and allow Kepler to be a part time starter and back up CF while still not being expensive. And maybe that's the best approach to take in order to maximize the roster and not sell low.

This season reminds me so much of 2018 when things just didn't go as planned/hoped/expected and the FO didn't blow things up, but they began a re-tool to get ready for 2019 and moved Pressly and Escobar for some really nice young talent. I wasn't crazy about either move, despite the return, because I felt strongly the Twins were in good position for 2019. IIRC correctly, Escobar was a pending FA but Pressly was not. So Pressly was the guy I really wanted to keep. And PLEASE, I am NOT trying to re-hash who won trades! My point, however, is that I feel almost the same way today as I did then. There is work to be done for 2022. But some "blow it up" option is not needed and rather ridiculous. Nor do i expect the FO to do so. Donaldson is not why this season crashed and burned. Despite a few unusual miscues, he's played his normally great defense and his numbers are very solid. And he's been largely healthy and dependable and in the lineup except for an early IL stint. But if they can move him, it frees up $ for other areas to address. The Twins made a big and exciting investment. It didn't work. But they took the shot. So now, maybe they can gain financial flexibility get at least a little something back, Donaldson goes to a contending team, and the Mets get some offense that they desperately need. Everyone wins. Considering the $ available to the Mets, and how determined and aggressive their ownership seems to be I'm not sure how concerned they are about a payroll ceiling. Might be a bit of posturing. Unless the Twins have to throw in a bunch of bank to make this happen, I'm OK with the trade. But with $ going out and little coming back then you have to wonder if the trade makes sense from the Twins perspective as well. Kirilloff, Larnach, Jeffers and possibly Gordon have arrived as part of the next wave. There remains a very good chance that with 3 months, left we still see Duran, Winder, Miranda, and maybe a couple pen arms who get some experience and get their feet wet for 2022. And sorry, just like the disappointing 2018, and changes needing to be made this roster is not devoid of talent. While only early rumors at this point, considering how this potential trade makes sense for both sides, I give these rumors at least semi-stable legs. It really makes a ton of sense if neither side has to give up too much, $ for the Twins and prosoects for the Mets.

Was really hoping to watch Ober with my dad tonight do what he has mostly done thus far, show potential while getting his feet wet in a rather aggressive promotion. Alas, it wasn't to be. And I'm not down on the kid. I still see something there as a back end starter with real potential. Just a young kid with a bad night. This season is about him growing, learning and adapting and getting ready for a possible future. The same can't be said about Shoemaker. By his own admission he hasn't pitched well. I don't like anyone to lose their job, but he's already guaranteed to be paid his $2M for this year. Thank you for trying. Thank you for taking one for the team tonight to save the pen for the next game. Best of luck in 2022 and the rest of your career and life. But it's time to move on. I mean, literally, the Twins could promote anyone from AAA or AA and get the same results as tonight and probably better. It's just time for both parties to go their separate ways. Give someone younger who at least has a CHANCE to be part of the future a shot/opportunity. Solid flier idea. It didn't work. Move on.

The single biggest problem facing the Twins NOW is injuries in the minors. 2020 set back player development for everyone, but has clearly affected the development of pitchers they were really hoping would be part of 2021 and beyond. So now you have to rebound and re- set for 2022. The good news is we are seeing the future of Larnach, Kirilloff and Jeffers and even Gordon getting ML time for the future. Hopefully the same for Gordon. Not to mention the development of Alcala as a BP piece and Ober as a possible end of the rotation option. (He's looked good but is being protected for obvious reasons). Re-tooling on the fly has gone out the window, unfortunately. (Which was the original plan). But we are still seeing some exciting things between the blurred lines of wins and loses in a lost season. Hopefully, we are going to see Winder and Duran along with a couple pen options. Miranda will also see some ML time, but unless I'm mistaken, MLB in their short sighted wisdom is still limiting late season promotions. The difference between 2017 and now is the core players were just being established. Unfortunately, the 2021 Twins are more "out of it " compared to 2017. Don't give up! But be real. If you can get ANYTHING for a couple expiring contracts then do so. At some point, you have to just say you have a losing season. But it doesn't have to be a LOST season. Remember the kids already here and the kids pushing the envelope for tomorrow. Boston, for example, was supposed to be trash this year. Why can't we continue to play and audition our talented prospects and promote a few more and just make a few smart moves offseason to get ready for 2022? Even with losses we all expect, there's still a lot to like on this roster.

Just super happy to see all the promotions! Especially Winder and Miranda! Now, we need to get a couple more of those Wichita bullpen arms up to St Paul. After 2 poor years with Tampa at AA, I can see maybe being a little cautious with Palacios, still only 24yo old. But isn't it about time to see him at AAA? Disappointed in Sammons thus far, but slightly surprised to see him go back to Wichita. It seemed he was throwing at least as well if not better with the Saints than he was with the Surge. But then again, Schulfer and a healthy Sands are probably more ready for AAA at this point. Unless I am missing something, despite a rash of injuries to our top rotation prospects, isn't Enlow the only one out for the year? Even if they all miss a few weeks, really, really hoping Duran, Sands, Canterino and Rijo are only "dinged" and still get a couple mkre months of 2021 development. Really important to be careful but equally important they get real time this year along with Balazovic and Vallimont to move forward. Predicting now Winder makes his ML debut before the season is done. Duran should as well as long as he's healthy in a couple weeks. Results might not matter as much as just getting the experience and getting their feet wet. Agree I'd really like an update on Marco Raya but also Alerick Soularie. Any updates Seth? Honestly, Raya is the most intriguing 2020 draftee to me.

The Twins FO doesn't need me to defend them. And I won't. But hindsight 20/20 is very easy to blame. The Twins spent a couple roster spots on "pitching help" for the 2021 season for a team that was supposed to contend and they wanted depth. Smart! They left Badoo off the 40 man roster,young and coming off missed time. Who honestly expected him to be drafted and kept and actually perform well? Go buy a lottery ticket if you can say yes. I liked Wade a lot. I wanted to keep him. I thought be brought some potential and skill set the Twins were lacking. But when I had to compare a more experienced LH OF with better numbers and more experience, I had to go with Cave when the trade was made, Anderson I have no comment on at this time, sorry, without digging in to the ML and milb rosters 2yrs ago. I HATED losing a low level, talented prospect like Badoo. I'm OK losing a 4th OF prospect. I'm OK losing a journeyman RP, except, young enough and stats enough to tell me the FO didn't look close enough and probably protected someone not as good. Very few teams would have protected Baddoo, we just got screwed on that one. Period! But with a serious 40 man crunch coming forward, they are going to have to make 5-7 really tough choices. Is that a bad thing? It means the Twins have enough young talent to allow for such tough choices. Let's hope we're smart enough to make the RIGHT choices!

Honestly, not sure commentening now vs waiting until this series makes sense. And I have to agree with Roger that the draft has snuck up on us and it's always so hard to project the ML draft. Harder than any other sport. I still feel the baseball draft is more the BPA than any sport. That being saidm i think tbe FO has been somewhat unfairly criticized for their draft approach since being placed in charge. It's easy to say we are overloaded with corner power bats. But would you want to not have Kirilloff and Larnach right now? How about Wallner in a couple years to replace Kepler? They HAVE drafted infielders. A few in 2018 and a bunch in 2019. Steer, Howard, Julien, Cavaco, and Mack. I'm sure I've missed one or two. While it's true they haven't drafted a ton of pitchers early they have drafted a number of pitchers, especially college pitchers. Canterino and Sands are the highest profile draftees to be sure, and they each look pretty solid early in their careers. And just not going list player after player, but there are some interesting arms with solid results so far drafted in 2018-19. Most of whom have questions, obviously, from only having a season to a season and a half at most professionally thus far. My surprise has been the short 2020 draft when supposedly there was real depth for pitching available and we chose ONE. Now Raya, 4th round HS selection, might be my favorite choice they made. No offense to the other choices or their potential, but did they get "too cute" with their selections? Did they think they were sneaking in some good position players while everyone was looking too hard at pitching and get a few steals? Maybe. Jeffers wasn't supposed to be picked where he was and look how that's turned out so far. But unless quality pitching just isn't there when the Twins select, I really hope they add a couple upside arms early in this draft. There IS real depth of talent in the system right now. Unfortunately, a missed season and a rash of injury is setting back their combined development by a season or more right now. And you should never ignore available talent. But I'm really hoping for a couple good college arms with projection who could add the the system and create even better depth than we have currently. You need numbers to find your future rotation, but you also need guys who could transition to the pen as well.

Lots of great points and perspectives here. I am deliberately staying away from the service time debate a couple years ago, despite my own thoughts, as I really don't think it is a factor. What IS a factor is the injuries and the loss of availability in his career. And it can't be ignored by the Twins OR Buxton. He and his representation are fully aware of injuries and missed time. And while it's possible Byron and his reps could posture and speculate what he's worth when healthy and all the numbers he produces when in the lineup and want to "bet" on future health, they also understand reality. You can bet on that even if they won't want to admit it. Levi is also correct to point out that with few exceptions, the 5+ year signings have disappeared. And teams may drool over the potential of Buxton and dream of having him in their lineup and WANT to bank on his being healthy going forward, but they also understand the reality and potential gamble. None of this is to demean Byron's ability, talent impact or potential impact. I'm just talking reality that can't be ignored by either side. While virtually impossible to accurately do, you almost have to try and look at this from Buxton's perspective. At some point, being one of the very best prospects in all of baseball, hard working and convinced of his talent and future he probably dreamed of making over $200M in his career. But life slaps you upside the head at times and you deal with multiple injuries, ONE season so far when you've played more than 92 games, a shift in the market, plus covid having at least some additional financial impact on the game, and you're 27yo and a father and you want security and as much $ as you can despite everything that has happened and changed. So the Twinsm in theory, offer you something like 5yrs and $100M guaranteed with incentives that could be as much as an additional $5M per year. Do you turn that down? Betting on yourself is one thing, but turning down $100M plus guaranteed has to be tantalizing to say the least. If you ARE wanting to bet on yourself then you see that extra $25M just sitting there for you and you would be coming off your age 32 season with the ability to sign another deal as a corner OF, probably, who might even DH at some point. If he wants to bet on himself to the degree where he thinks someone would offer him 5yrs at a guaranteed $150M, I think the Twins may have to pass. There is just too much risk to invest in. But if Buck looks at his past and his future with an honest and realistic eye, if he believes in himself, if he enjoys playing in Target Field, if he enjoys being a Twin and the past two seasons and what still looks like a good future, he would have be looking at a potential $125M GUARANTEED with future earnings available. He seems like a good guy and a smart guy. I could absolutely see him accepting a deal like that. Life changing money for his entire family he can bank on. I could be WAY OFF! But I don't think this kind of offer is something he would just dismiss. Now, I'm also on board with Berrios for a 5yr $90-100M extension as well, but that's a different topic.

#1] Barnes has been promoted more aggressively than I ever expected. I just can't believe this is convenience simply because they needed a AAA arm. Not NOW, but you have to consider giving him a shot before the year is done. Maybe Jax as well. There will be holes and opportunity. #2] Winder is just about ready for a AAA stretch promotion and a late season audition. Don't hold him back. Let him get his feet wet, much like Ober, and take some lumps if necessary, and get him ready for 2022. Hopefully the same for Duran if his injury is mild. Really hoping Sands will be OK and get at least a 2nd half at AAA. There are a trio of RP at Wichita that need to move up, at least after the draft, and get AAA work with the idea of at least progressing. #3] Play Gordon, and play him at SS as well. You see enough in him to protect/keep him. SSS notwithstanding, you are seeing potential and ability at this point, worthy of keeping him on the 26 man roster. Athletically, he would seem to have the ability to play SS. He was drafted as a SS. He has continued to play SS in the minors as well as ST just this year. He supposedly doesn't have the arm to be a pure SS. And yet, he continues to play SS in the minors and ST. Could an offseason of gaining his weight and strength back help his arm as well as his bat? I fully appreciate the idea of a contending team, or even a team shooting for .500 plus thinking Polanco is the 2nd best SS option. But aren't we now coming in to the evaluation and development phase for the rest of the year? How can you possibly play him at SS at AAA and ST, and then believe in his athleticism enough to transition him to CF with ONLY practice time and NOT also play him at SS to see what you have? I am NOT saying I believe Gordon is a starting ML SS. But I believe the ability is there to be at least a viable backup option there. If not, if he truly stinks, then why has he been playing the position in the first place the past few years? Let the kid play 2B/SS/CF and see what you have. This is the perfect time to see who he is and might be. If you don't, NOW I begin to wonder what the FO and coaching staff are thinking.

Sticking only to the OP.... 1] Agreed it's way too soon to speculate but I appreciate John's efforts with the trade deadline comingup. 2] Part of the reason it's too early is 2021 revenue is impossible to determine at this point. And I don't have current projections and goodness knows what the Twins are speculating only 1/3 of the season gone. And yes, it appears the Twins are done from a competitive standpoint this season. But with better health and better overall play this team may be able to reach .500. Further, with 100% capacity and fans just wanting to do to the park after not being able to in 2020 has to have some affect, not to mention a team featuring a group of talented youngsters they may want to see. So this is going to be fluid. However....and I hate to reference John's and Aaron's podcast but I need to....I believe the Twins will be taking a "re-load" view for 2022 and not a "re-build". And I've stated this myself as well previously. The difficult part of this is the delayed and shortened milb season and now some injuries and potential set-backs that affect the "re-tooling on the fly" aspect that the FO clearly had in mind. Allowing for at least decent gate receipts, the debuts of some promising prosoects, and a few more that will inevitably follow, and a roster that is by no means devoid of talent, a re-tool seems in order. So with all of that being said, I believe the FO/ownership will push the 2022 payroll back up in to the $140-145M payroll area. That gives them about $45+M to spend barring trade surprises. Had this team just done what was expected of them, I could have argued higher, but that's not what happened. I say pending surprises because I just don't see Donaldson or Sano moving unless the Twins kick in substantial $, especially in the case of Donaldson. And at that point, I don't know that you've really gained enough value and flexibility to even make a move worthwhile. And it's not like Donaldson, in particular, is a bad player. I am not going to break down an entire roster at this point, it would be a sloppy back of the napkin to be sure. But I just don't see a 41yo Cruz back. But I do see Robles back to combine with Rogers, Duffey and Alcala to allow for the nucleus of a solid pen. And I'd keep Garver as a backup catcher and 1B who also DH a lot to keep him in the lineup almost daily. Larnach and Kirilloff are here to stay and will only get better. Gordon is getting a long and deserved look as part of the 2022 roster as a utility player. Rooker still has a shot. Refsnyder MIGHT have changed his approach enough to be a viable RH bench ootion who could fill in a lot of places. I'm sure not counting on he and Gordon, but we have 2/3 of a season to see if they could be real bench options for next season. ASSUMING for just a moment that either Berrios and/or Buxton were signed to extensions, they might eat up part of the $45M I'm saying the Twins have to spend. But most of their $ would be for 2023 and beyond. Unless there is another Odorizzi/Maeda trade out there, the FO will need to spend a legitimate $14-18M on a SP. The $45M starts to be whittled down rather quickly, but there's still room, IMO, for an OF depth piece and a couple RP arms to add to the nucleus in place and the "other" arms currently on hand. I'm confused/concerned about an ever day SS, but maybe Simmons again or someone like a Galvis, though I'm not sure what he signed for last off-season. Just spitballing. You have to be smart. You have to see what the remaining 2/3 of the season brings you if course. Do Ober and Dobnak continue to advance and look like options? Is Duran OK and finishes the season strong? How about Winder, Sands and Balazovic finishing strong? Is Barnes at least a solid option? (He's surprised me in performance and advancement thus far). Too many variables! But I'm sticking with "re-tool" and about $45M to spend.

Thank you for a quality post and kind words. Of course, it seems we're mostly on the same page too, LOL. I also don't want "dumpster dives" for the rotation, though I really don't like that term. I have ZERO inside information as to the workings of the FO. But I like to think I'm pretty intelligent. (Some would agree...some might argue, lol). To me the pitching staff was put together in a very intelligent way, despite the results. We all have to remember that Happ has been pretty good for his career and was coming off a very solid 2020 despite being a LH in Yankees stadium. He was, it appeared, a smart 1yr replacement for Odorizzi to compete for the 3rd/4th spot. Shoemaker was a cheap flier 5th spot arm who has been good/very good when healthy. Clearly, the FO saw depth options available in a handful of guys while buying more time for Duran, Balazovic, Winder, Sands, Canterino and others. Not a bad plan/idea. In fact, though it's hard to remember when wearing glasses colored with disappointment hues, Happ looked pretty good early. There was even a little optimism from Shoemaker initially. But a funny thing happened on the way to the Forum. The old nursery rhyme talks about the wheels on the bus going "round and round". Well that bus, carrying our 2021 Twins, hit a number of post-winter potholes the size of sinks and bathtubs to not only flatten a few tires but also break an axel. I'm pretty sure there's even a tire down in the ditch somewhere. And I'm ONLY talking about the pitching right now. Totally agree Dobnak is a SP and needs to be left in the rotation to develop and work. What's he going to do, be worse than Happ or Shoemaker? I hate but understand protecting Ober while also making sure he gets a regular turn and stretches out and builds himself up. Just being 100% honest, he's been far better and shown far more potential than I ever thought. We still have 2/3 of a season to play and work toward. 500 and 2022. But for those who want the Twins to jump-start careers, just remember the milb season started a month later than normal. They have already been very aggressive with Ober. As bad luck would have it, both Duran and Balazovic began their seasons late due to nagging but limited injury. Just give them a little time. Again, we have 2/3 of the season to play and audition yet. And Winder will be at St Paul very soon. He may be joined by Sands. I think the Twins will sign a quality FA SP next off-season or pull off a Madea/Odorizzi type of trade and HOPEFULLY feel good about the development of both Ober and Dobber the rest of the season. And whether 40 man adds or non-roster invites, they are going to have another 4-6 live/decent/good arms from the system to compete. And at least a couple of those arms should at least get their feet wet before this season is done. I firmly believe this team is in re-tool mode and not break down and re-build mode. The talent on hand tells me this. Just sucks the original plan of re-tooling on the fly turned in to a massive bus accident where even AAA is shaking their heads. Colome is probably done no matter what happens. But he was signed for a very good reason, and earned an option year for the same. But even if he suddenly finds himself again...and their have been recent glimpses...sometimes you have to move on for the sake of doing so. Rogers has found himself again, Duffey is looking more like his old self. We are seeing Alcala grow. Again, is a low level prospect better than keeping Robles? There is at least a foundation to build on with the pen. A few weeks ago, we weren't so sure. Pitching wise, I don't think we need a new bus, I think we need repairs and a few new tires to keep those wheels going "round and round" for next year. Fortunately, we have some new tread to try out over the next few months.

Yes to trading Happ, Shoemaker and probably Colome, assuming you can get anything for them. (I say probably on Colome as he's been unusually poor but is showing life as of late. Can he build trade value yet?) I don't WANT to trade Cruz but he may have value to a handful of contending teams and couple bring a decent A level prospect or a AA level pitcher with a live arm transitioning to the pen. IMO, nobody will want Donaldson, not because he isn't z fine player, but because of the contract. And by the Twins kick in enough $ to make a trade palatable, I'm not sure the return is better than keeping him. He's actually, probably, more tradeable in 2023 with some cash to cover a potential 2024 buyout. Sano, IMO is a more likely enticement to teams that woukd be willing to gamble on his production and age, 29yo in July, and some upside knowing how good he can be. But like Donaldson, are the Twins better off then just keeping him? Or do they feel enough roster crunch and want to free up some $ for 2022? Pineda might actually bring back a decent A or AA prospect of similar nature as Cruz, but only if he gets healthy again. Will probably need a SS for 2022. There will be options in the off-season to consider, including bringing back Simmons. If you could get something for him now, take it. Personally, I think re-signing the 30yo Robles for next season will bring greater value than whatever they might acquire via trade. In a year where everything that could go wrong and seemingly has gone wrong, the Twins, unfortunately, don't really have many/any valuable trade assets unless they begin to gut the roster. And even if they wanted to do that, I would expect it to take place in the off-season to allow for better evaluation of the roster and the system. Plus, we still have 2/3 of the season to play. I don't see a gut of the team at this point, if at all. I know it's an unpopular position with a lot of people, but considering the total aberration that I feel this season is, I'm pretty much in favor of bringing back anyone not on a 1yr deal while continuing to play the prospects on the roster right now, and continue 2nd half promotions to AAA for a number of players and auditions for at least a handful of pitchers once Happ, Shoemaker and potentially others are gone. THEN we consider a couple keybp FA signings and maybe a trade or two if it makes sense.

"Paging Mr. Serling, Mr. Rod Serling...you're wanted in the Twlight Room." The Twins have won 3 In a row and have generally been playing much better the past few weeks, even with a few bad losses. They're also get healthy again. Now, it's far too late for any 2/3 of a season "back in contention" miracle, but what a possible .500 finish while building confidence and momentum for 2022? And how about continuing to get experience for Jefffers, Rotvedt, Kirilloff, Larnach, Gordon, Alcala, Dobber, Ober and anyone else we haven't seen yet but will? Three quick thoughts: 1] Despite some HR issues, including the one he gave up Friday night, Alcala is gaining trust and growing up right in front of us as a legitimate BP option. 2] I think you are either a believer in Dobnak that he can be a reliable back of the rotation bulldog who will always take the ball every 5th day and give you a solid chance...eventually...OR, you just aren't a fan. Service time-wise, I believe he just lost rookie status. But he still only has around 120IP in his young career and has shown stretches/games of being quite good. He gets a little more consistent I like him at the back of the rotation. 3] Except for 2020 and a few appearances early this year, Robles has been a fine RP. And he's still 30yo until August 13th. What is his future worth to the Twins? Is he more valuable being traded for an A level prospect or re-signed for 2022? Personally, I'm in favor of keeping him for next season. FINAL NOTE: I have really enjoyed listening to Perkins in the booth the past couple of games and would enjoy hearing him more.

My only problem was choosing to give up on Anderson so soon. I liked a lot of things about Wade and if he was a little better in CF and RH I might have been upset about the trade. But really, with Kirilloff and Larnach joining the ML club now, where would Wade have fit? I just think the 40 man roster game hasn't been played nearly as well as it's been played before and should have found some way to keep Anderson for at least the rest of the season. It does seem like the Hamilton kid has supplanted him in the Twins mind.