LA VIkes Fan

I agree. I think it's about a 30% chance he's as good as new, a 30% chance he's a lesser player with a chronic condition, and about a 30% chance he never sees the big leagues again for any length of time. the other 10%? He's the next Justin Morneau. Wouldn't that be nice.

Two thoughts. First, it's hard to know if Kirilloff is ever going to be able to play at a high level again. If he can, he has to be an OF/DH. 1B is taken by Miranda and Arraez - both of whom have so far shown themselves to be better hitters and better players. The only way Kirilloff can play much 1B is if we either trade Arraez, make him solely a Utility guy (why we would limit opportunities for a guy hitting .313 with a .789 OPS is a mystery to me), or move Miranda to 3B. The latter means no Urshela, who has probably been our 3rd or 4th best hitter this year and fields the position pretty well. Kirilloff is a question mark to begin with and not a guy for whom I think you trade or displace other guys who have performed. Second, you saw the hitting stats above for 3 guys who are adequate in the OF. Now, let's look at a guy who's slash line is ..272/.319/.432 (.751) with a 115 OPS+, speed, and who's as good or better in the OF with more talent to improve defensively - NIck Gordon. Again, why would we displace him for any of these 3 very unproven guys. If this year is real for Gordon, always an if for any player, he's is ahead of all 3 especially since he's basically the same age and has both the room and the natural athletic ability to get better. Also, look at the lines Neither Kirilloff or Larnach has shown much. Yes, we can and should blame injuries but the sad truth is Miranda and Gordon have performed, Kirilloff and Larnach have not. Now I WOULD displace Max Kepler with one of these guys. Why? Max can't hit and he's 30 years old. If we don't trade or bench Max or I guess make Gordon the SS, where are these guys going to get the ABs? The right answer to me is to trade Kepler, put Gordon in LF, have one of the 3 in right (Larnach), one as a DH/occasional 1B/bench bat (Kirilloff if he can play or Wallner), and one in AAA. They can move up IF they perform at a high level AND Gordon, Miranda, or Arraez fall off. That's what the short term future holds for these guys. Larnach and Kirilloff had a shot to take a stranglehold on a starting spot. They didn't. Instead, Miranda and Gordon took advantage of their opportunity and took those spots. Those 2 are now behind and have to beat out 2 other guys who showed they belong on a MLB team in the lineup and may have to beat our the latest new girl in town in Wallner. Critical year coming up for both Larnach and Kirilloff if they want to carve out a long term career with the Twins.

Agreed, except I think Kirilloff is much more of a crapshoot since we have no idea how he will come back from the major surgery he just had. i would add Larnach to the mix, again assuming he comes back from his injury, and we are pretty strong in the 4 corners. I wasn't a big fan of Urshela to start with but he has grown on me plus he hits RH, soemthing we desperately need. I'd be fine with him starting at 3B next year and hitting no higher than #6 or #7 but ONLY if we an work things out so that Miranda, Arraez, Gordon, Kirilloff, and Larnach are all getting 500 plus ABs. I think that's doable if Miranda mans 1B most of the time, Gordon, Larnach and Kirilloff man the two corner OFs and half time DH, with Gordon the backup CF, and Arraez plays 40 games at 1B, 25 at 2B, 50-60 at DH, and another 15-20 at 3B. It's tight and frankly a little too LH in the batter's box but it works. We could also create room if Correa doesn't come back and Gordon plays SSS but I would much rather have Correa. I kind of think with the roster set up the way it is it's kind of a choose 2 of 3 but not all 3 choice between keeping Kepler in RF, keeping Urshela at 3B, or playing Larnach, Kirilloff, Gordon and Miranda at least semi-regularly. You cannot do all 3 of those things. My view would be to trade Kepler given his age and poor bat. Others may disagree but I would love to hear how you can accomplish all three of those things within the roster.

I used to be on this train but just can't stay there with Cave. I'm fine if he has another split contract - I think this year it was 300k when in the minors, 800k in the majors -and he our 6th or 7th OF standing by in AAA. I think that's the best deal he will get from anybody else. He just doesn't hit well enough to play a corner OF and he doesn't field well enough to play CF. Also, he'll be in his age 30 season next year so you would expect him to plateau or decline, not get any better than he's shown. Besides, IF we're reasonably healthy we go into spring training with at least 5-6 guys who are already better or have much higher potential - Buxton, Gordon, Larnach, Kepler, Wallner, Kirilloff (don't kid yourself, Arraez and Miranda are the 1Bs next year) and maybe Celestino (not so sure about him). Love Cave's hustle but if he is on the roster at the start of next year we are in big trouble. I am ok if he is playing every day at AAA available if we have a run of injuries. I would love to be wrong, but i that's really his highest and best use.

I completely agree. Palacios is not the answer at SS for even half a season - he can't hit, at all. It's one thing ot have a defensive wiz who hits .225 with no power for half a season but Palacios isn't a defensive wiz and hits .115 with no power. You just can't do that and expect to compete. My view is don't go out and get some veteran retread play Gordon at SS and see if it works. First off, there's nobody out there to get hat's any good who we would sign. Second, Gordon ahs hit well this year and played well, he's earned a shot. Let's give it to him. With all that said, I'd still rather they signed Correa.

Well put. This was supposed to be the year where the core of Buxton, Polanco, Kepler and Sano complimented by Correa and maybe Arraez would form a fearsome lineup. The pitching staff would be young and improving, and we could be competitive in 2022 with 2023 the true break through deep playoff run competitive year. Instead, Sano played his way out baseball, Kepler played his way to the bench or out of town, and both Polanco and Buxton were injured a whole lot. The only young pitchers that stepped forward were Ryan becoming a solid mid rotation starter with some higher potential and Duran becoming a lock down bullpen guy. Ober looked good last night so maybe he's ready to break out. Miranda and Gordon look like solid MLB players, and possible stars (?), and nothing else happened in the lineup. So where are we? Very hard to tell. There's enough talent with potential to imagine a solid lineup for next year but we again will be dependent on Buxton's health, Polanco and Arraez staying on the field, and break throughs from younger guys. The rotation has 3 vets with injury issues, Ryan, and …. maybe Ober or Winder or Varland? God help us if the 3 vets have more injury issues and Ryan gets hurt. Then we're screwed. The bullpen has to be rebuilt . . . again. The coaching? Wasn't great this year. All frustrating. :Looks like 2023 is another crapshoot year for the Twins. We could win 90-95 games, we could win 70-75 games next year.

I've never been a big fan of Kepler but I agree with this. He really would be a good 4th OF/CF replacement. That's what he is and at age 30 he isn't likely to get better. My concern is that the Twins would still view him as an everyday player rather than giving those ABs to Gordon or Larnach, both of whom are better hitters, and still be unwilling to play him in CF when Buxton is the DH or out. I just wonder if it wouldn't be better for both him and for the team to eliminate that potential misuse and just trade him. BTW, there was an article in the Athletic about increased hits due to the shift ban and they made it sound like a Kepler might get 4-8 more hits a year at most. Based on a 500 AB season at his 3 year average of .220, that's a move from 110 hits to 114 to 118 hits or from .220 to .228 to .236 at best. Let's not forget all of those hits are ground ball singles so the SLG % would not go up and the OPS would hit around .720, and that's supposedly the optimistic side. Look, in a perfect world we would keep Kepler and he would get 300 ABs or so as the 4th OF and usual replacement CF when Buxton is the DH or can't go. That's worth the price tag. It's not worth it if he takes playing time away from Gordon or Larnach because they at least have the potential to be so much more than he is. Even worse if AK comes back strong (complete crapshoot) and playing Kepler takes time away form AK or Miranda because Kepler in RF means AK has to paly 1B and Miranda has nowhere to play. I just question whether this manager will be able to make that switch so on balance I think we should trade him for a prospect and move on.

Agree almost entirely with your analysis of the players. I think we all may be falling victim to overestimating Waller as the new guy in town. To me, looks like he needs a season AAA with the possibility of a midseason call up. Gordon looks real. I hope we find him an everyday spot next year in LF or RF; he's athletic and can learn to play OF. On the other side of the coin, Palacios is completely overmatched. This hopefully eliminates the thought that he could be the replacement for Correa while we wait for Royce Lewis next year. We have to find someone else, even if it means putting Polanco back in short for half a season with Arraez or Gordon playing second. I also agree with you and the Angels announcers on how sedentary the Twins look on the bases. No stolen bases and no even attempt to hit and run. We got to do something about that because with the change in base size next year and limits on throwing over its quite possible there's really be a lot more base stealing and a lot more running in general. I'm a little surprised that we aren't running guys like Jake Cave on those rare occasions he gets on base, but the real problem is outside of Gordon you just don't see anyone likely to be in the starting lineup next year that brings much speed other than Buxton. That is going to be a real problem if it is not addressed. We have spots open in the lineup is at least one corner outfield spot and backup CF (plays there 40-50% of the time). I've been advocating for really looking for impact bat in the off-season but maybe needs to be an impact bat with speed.

I've been an apologist for Rocco this season but I now tend to agree with you. I think the coaching staff needs a significant overhaul starting with a new manager and including a new pitching coach and new hitting coach. I think the FO has to show some resolve in changing things after this collapse in September. By the way, I think we need an impact bat even if Correa stays. Maybe we can go a little farther down the list to an AJ Pollack, JD Martinez, or Trey Mancini type but we need a consistent veteran bat. Otherwise, we are counting on Miranda and Gordon continuing to be at least as good as this year, Laranch being a solid bat, Kirilloff being able to even play again, Jeffers being the 2021 version not the 2022 version, Arraez hitting .315 not .285, etc.

I agree with a lot of this but would allocate the $$ differently. I think we really need an impact bat. The lineup jus isn't good enough even with good health. Andrew Benintendi and Josh Bell are available FAs, We'll find out if there are available trade partners for a bat. But we need one to hit every day in the #3 or #4 hole. Our pitching simply isn't good enough to carry a middling lineup and that's what we have - a middling lineup WITH Correa. Without him, it's a below average lineup. I am open to any solid bat to hit in the middle of the lineup who plays anywhere. We do not have anybody who can't be moved to accommodate a very good hitter. I would spend the rest of the money either on 2 quality bullpen arms or a 1 solid #2 type starter. I'm leery of Rondon; he's pitched like a #1 the last 2 seasons but before that was injured and unusable when not injured. He is not a #1 starter and is going to get #1 starter money. Since I don't really see anyone else available i would spend the money on 2 quality relief pitchers like our former friends Trevor May and Taylor Rogers. I think the rotation could be good enough IF we have a deep bullpen. This year's experiment of a short start rotation with a shallow bullpen cannot be repeated. And for the final issue- what do we do about Baldelli? This complete collapse in September is very concerning even with all of the injuries. This team seems to have given up and that's on the manager. Still, there have been a boatload of injuries. I question if he's the right guy. It might be and probably is time to kick him upstairs and try someone else if only to give this team a new voice to listen to and shake things up a little. I don't think Baldelli is a bad manager- I think he's pretty average but he just hasn't worked for the last 2 years.

I agree. It's funny how we all thought the lineup would be a strength this year when the season started and it's turned out to be as big of an anchor as the bullpen. Injuries do have a lot to do with that but they aren't the only story. We just don't have the horses at depth and the front line hasn't improved. I wondered when Sanchez and Urshela were hitting 4 and 5 early in the season instead of 7 and 9 where they belong. It just didn't get any better and now is pretty awful. Realistically, next year's OF is Buxton, Gordon (unless we need him to play short), and …? Larnach maybe but the last 2 years don't provide much hope of consistency or health. Ditto for Kirilloff and I think it's a complete crapshoot whether he will ever play at a high level again after the invasive surgery. Kepler is a 4th OF/defensive specialist/8th place hitter on a good team. Wallner has had all of about 25 ABs at the MLB level so he's a complete unknown. Celestino would have to make a major leap to be more than a 5th OF/replacement CF. There is nobody else. I think a couple of hitters is just as critical for the 2023 team as a couple of bullpen pieces. I would love to see us get Andrew Benintendi to play LF and Josh Bell to be a 1B/DH. They could hit 4 and 5, move Miranda and Gordon back to 6 and 7, and strengthen the whole thing.

Agree with this. They are pretty good at finding and/or developing #3-#5 starters - Ryan and Ober to start, with Varland and Winder as tantalizing possibilities. Still, none of those guys is a #1 starter and I don't see a #2 in the group unless Ryan takes one more full step up and/or Winder's shoulder completely heals. Hard to see anyone in the Minors that fits the #1 type bill. SWR and Raya potential MLB starters at the #2-#4 levels? I think so but probably less than #1 or #2 type guys. Festa, Sands, Balazovic, and Henriquez probably the same or even farther back. This is a real problem. We can't afford #1 and #2 guys as Free Agents so we have to develop them and we just aren't doing that. Really need to focus on the drafting, scouting and pitching development side in the off season. I don't know what changes are necessary but it seems pretty clear that some are.

I know there has been some disparaging comments about Gordon's ability to play SS. Do we have any data that suggests he's be below average and/or less competent than Polanco? I htink we all agree that Correa returning is the preferred result but that chances of that happening are probably less than 50/50 and perhaps a lot less. He's played very well down the stretch and it seems like a Gold/Platinum Glove winning SS who is posting a .289/.336/.469 (.834) slash line is going to have a lot of options. Palacios can't hit, like not at all. I don't see him as even a short term answer. We've seen Polanco at SS and he's stretched at best. The minor league guys are a ways away and Lewis is a mid-season 2023 guy if we're lucky. I think Gordon makes sense IF he can even be average at SS. He's also position versatile so he can move when Lewis comes back IF Lewis is fit to play SS and doesn't have to move to 2B, LF or 3B after 2 torn ACLs. I'm not sure there are any other short term internal options other than Polanco The FA SS selection is a few high end, verrrrry expensive guys, and a lot of dreck.

I see your point and tend to agree. I do think that the FO did not do enough to address the bullpen this off season. I really wonder if that was the result of thinking that 2022 would be a development year not a contending year. The 2021 deadline and off season moves seemed to have 2023 more in mind than 2022. I do have more confidence that Mahle will be a valuable asset in 2023 and I think SWR may easily be part of the rotation by mid season. I hope the FO has learned its lesson and will be proactive this off season in shaping the bullpen and giving the lineup another bat or two. I think it's unlikely that we will be able to improve the rotation because there's not much out there and it will be badly over priced. I think we could be competitive next year with the rotation we have lined up IF we have a much better bullpen and a lineup capable of scoring more than 3 runs on occasion.

Thanks, Nick. I agree with your thesis. I do think there's room for optimism for the 2023 season IF we have better health but we can't simply stand pat. This was kind of a transition year – out with the old in Garver, Donaldson, Berrios, and Rogers and in with the new in Jeffers, Ryan, Miranda, Larnach and Kirilloff. Unfortunately, injuries really robbed us of development on some of these guys. The only players to really develop this year were Ryan, Miranda, and Gordon. Hopefully the performance of those three is sustainable but we won't know that until at least next season. The trades were a mixed bag but can't really be evaluated in full until next season since a big part of the trades for Lopez and Mahle in particular involved control at least through 2023 and perhaps beyond. I do think we have to continue the housecleaning a little bit for that improvement to really take root. Assumedly Sano is gone. I like Kepler in the field, but he simply cannot hit well enough to start on a contending MLB team. Banning the shift is not going to change that. He either needs to be the fourth outfielder or traded. I would choose the latter. The bullpen has to be cleaned out and improved with at least two quality free agent relievers. Those two can take the spots held this year by Pagan and either Megill or Moran. That assumes that Theilbar will still be effective at age 36. We also need a middle of the order bat to play either a corner OF spot, 1B, 3B. or C. There isn't a lot out there but someone like Josh Bell or Andrew Benintendi would help this team a lot. Bottom line is I don't think were too far away from a contending team but we can't simply sit down, hope for better health, and play the hand we have. I think this team still needs some augmentation in the bullpen and the lineup.

I agree in theory but not in practice. Aim higher for Castillo is a good take but what does that mean? What package gets you Castillo? Seattle sent 4 players to Cincinnati, including 3 of its top 5 prospects. Two of our top 5 were just drafted, Lee and Prielipp, so they are not tradable under MLB rules until next year. The other 3 are Royce Lewis, Emanuel Rodriguez and Matt Wallner. The next 5 are SWR, Rayes, Urbino, Canterino and Varland. You do have to add back in Steer, Hajjar and Encarnacion-Strand since one would assume we wouldn't go after Mahle if we got Castillo. Other than Lewis, none are as good as what Seattle traded. Why? because our real top prospects are in the majors or hurt - Miranda, Kirilloff, Larnach, and Celestino. So looking at this in a factual context, trading for Luis Castillo with basically 1.4 years left on his contract would likely have cost us some package that looked like Miranda or Lewis, or perhaps both, plus 1 or 2 of SWR, Rodriguez, Steer or Wallner, plus one or two from farther down the list but good like Encarnacion-Strand, Julien, Palacios, Varland, or Hajjar. Something like Miranda or Lewis plus SWR, Wallner and Steer or Encarnacion-Strand, That's what it would take to beat Seattle's offer and I'm not even sure that beat Seattle's offer. Is that a trade that you would make? I agree that we should aim high and trade for the best. I actually think the FO did as well as it could with the prospects we had to trade. Now that may be on the FO's drafting and development track record, although many of the AAA players are from the prior regime. Still, you can only trade for the level of quality that you're able to give up and frankly we did not have a lot of quality to trade with all the injuries to young players and stalls in development.

I think LF is Gordon's spot to lose after this year unless they decide he has to hold down SS until Lewis is ready. Gordon has played the best of any of them at the MLB level and it isn't even very close.

One more thought on next year. I think in this series against Cleveland is a good microcosm for the season. Given the quality of the starting performances, they win the game 2 started by Bieber and we win game 4 started by Ryan 90% of the time. What happened in the other three games? Games 1 and 3 were competitive and we lost both. Why? We could not hit well enough and our bullpen wasn't good enough. Today's game is hard to put into the calculation since Gray couldn't go more than two innings with his hamstring. Although, again we didn't score very many runs and the bullpen was pretty poor. The common thread this season has been bullpen issues and and an inability to score runs. Yes, we have had injuries. Yes, the starting pitching has been inconsistent at best. My view is let's try to solve the two big problems this off-season by getting another bat and at least 2 quality bullpen arms. That's where I think we should put our money. Sorry for the rants. I'm done now and will go watch the Vikings game. Speaking of possible disappointment . . .

Interestingly, while I think the lineup is much worse than you do I don't that the pitching staff is quite as bad as you make it out. As you acknowledge, the starting rotation has two roughly #2/3 guys in Gray and Mahle and you acknowledge that Ryan is basically a solid #4. I think he's more of a solid #3 but we can agree to disagree on that because it really depends on whether he continues to improve next year, as I think, or has reached his ceiling at 26 years old, as you think. Maeda is absolutely a question mark coming back from TJ but I think looking around at other success stories he's likely to be back or close to what he was when we got him from the Dodgers – a solid #3/4 starter for about 130-150 innings who then becomes a good bullpen pitcher down the stretch.. Ober is better than most team's #5 starter and if he falters we do have some depth with with Winder, Varland, and SVR. Yes, the bullpen is a mess - we have about half a good bullpen - and that's why I said we should really put some money into two or three quality bullpen arms for next year. By my count, we have roughly 4 pitchers who can and should be #2-4 starters on a competitive rotation in Gray, Mahle, Ryan, and Maeda. They are backed up by at least 4 young arms that did potentially be the #5 starter or even force their way into the rotation ahead of one of the top four over the course of next season. Plus Paddack will be back by mid-season. That is frankly more than most teams have. Yes, we are missing a true #1 starter. So are about 20 other teams in MLB. Here is the real rub - there aren't any true #1 starters likely to be available in free agency other than deGrom and Verlander, both of whom are likely to sign with their current teams and would not come to the Twins in any event. Trying to sign a guy like Carlos Rodon, Aaron Nola, Taillion, Clevinger, Sale, Kyle Gibson, etc. is more likely than not to be spending a lot of money on guys that aren't any better than the guys you already have. They really do nothing but fill in a full rotation of #3 type starters instead of leaving that one spot open for one of the young guys. The young guys might be worse, they might develop to be better. We won't know if they don't pitch. I've said all year that this team is only a few players short - a strong middle of the order bat, a true #1 starter, and two more quality late inning relievers. We're not going to get all those spots filled in one off-season and couldn't afford it even if the players were available and willing to come to the Twins. I think we have to choose. My view is getting a true #1 starter is about the same price as getting a solid middle of the order bat +1 or 2 quality relievers. Both cost roughly $25-35m a season. I would rather have the bat and relievers because I think you have a better chance of actually hitting on your acquisitions. I also think that level of addition gets us to a competitive team with a shot to win 90+ games.

Interesting. You and I often agree but not here, particularly about the lineup. I think even with full health, a pipe dream regarding Buxton, we are at least one middle of the order bat short even if we keep Correa. Without him, very short. What we have in the lineup right now for next year? Arraez is a great leadoff hitter against right-handed pitching, but doesn't it left-handers very well. He had a great season this year but there's no reason to think he's going to hit .320 again next year. I think Miranda and Corbin made real strides this year and would love to see them hitting in the 6 and 7 holes next year. Polanco can hit 5 and, if he's still here, Correa #2. Buxton can hit 3 or 4 If he isn't hurt, but the Buxton we saw from about June 1 on should hit 6 or 7. So even if you pencil him in AND assume he isn't hurt, we are at least one middle of the order bat short. Without Correa 2 short, without Buxton and Correa, the Royals. Who do we have put in those middle of the order spots? Urshela? Sanchez? Jeffers? Larnach? Kepler? Urshela is a nice player who belongs hitting somewhere between the 6 hole and the 8 hole and Sanchez and Jeffers are end of the order bats with occasional power. Yet hose 3 are the 3 best hitters of the remaining group. Kepler is a very good defensive outfielder who cannot hit. That has now been true for multiple years with 2019 the only real exception. You know, the year of the juiced baseball. He should be the 4th OF or somewhere else. Larnach might be good, he might be average, he might be bad, who knows? He is not been able to say healthy long enough for us to really find that out and he will probably have one of those up-and-down basically rookie year seasons next year. Kirilloff is a complete question mark. as to whether he will ever be able to play baseball at a high level again. They cut off part of his arm bone for goodness sake. I have to believe he will start out the season in AAA and have to show he can play before he even gets a lot of MLB at bats in 2023. Wallner? Who knows, but he's more likely to start the season in AAA and become a major league regular in 2024, if ever. Palacios, Cave, Contreras, just no. I just don't see anyone else that we presently have riding to the rescue. Could Royce Lewis be that guy starting in June or July? Maybe but hard to count on that. I think we have a bottom half of the league offense that can become slightly above average if Correa stays and hits like he did this year AND Buxton has a healthy season. Perhaps more importantly, even if everything comes together we do not have the kind of offense that can carry an average to below average pitching staff. We need at least one middle of the order bat. I will talk about the pitching in a different post.

While I think you're right that we need more pitching I think you badly underestimate Ryan. He has pitched 137 innings at a 3.6 ERA (4.15 FIP) with 9 plus SOs per 9. He's likely to finish a little north of 150 innings. All this in his rookie year; it's a pretty safe bet that this is the floor with a real chance of improvement. He's a solid #3 starter on a contending team and could mature into a #2. Gray already is a #2. Maeda is probably the #3 or #4 starter he was with the Dodgers, not the #1 he was in the short 2020 season. Mahle and Ober both have the potential to be quality back end guys and maybe as high as #3s but at least quality #4 and #5 starters. We should also have Winder, Varland and SVR at AAA to start the season and Paddack back in June/July. Pretty good depth and better IF we stay healthy. As we've seen that's a big IF. I think the starting rotation is competent enough to be the rotation on a 90+ plus win team. We have the same 2 big problems the Twins always have with the starting rotation - no true #1 starter and insufficient depth. We may have that depth with Winder, Varland and SVR, we may not. We clearly don't have the #1 guy. There is very little likelihood one will even be available and then only at inflated prices. Not happening. Let's not overspend on a question mark like Rondon or bring in a bunch of Bundy/Archer types. You can solve that by having a top to bottom good bullpen to back up a better than average but not great rotation. We're probably 3 guys short of that. I would focus on finding 2-3 good relievers and roll with the starters as is. I would then either spend the $35m on Correa if he'll agree to it and add 1 bat or spend some real money on a 1-2 bats. Finding a place to play them is frankly pretty easy. LF is open unless we intend to play Gordon or Larnach there every day. Kepler can move to the bench or be traded to open another or an alternative corner OF spot. Urshela can be traded so Miranda has a spot at 3B and than 1B is open. This is all without a static DH. We can use another Catcher; in fact we need one pretty desperately. That is all without considering any contribution from Kirilloff. I think he's a huge mystery and we shouldn't count on much at all from him next year or frankly in the future at all until he shows he can play. He starts in AAA. There it is. Spend your money on 2 quality relivers and at least 1 quality middle of the order bat. Sit out the starting pitching carousel and run back what you now have hoping for better health,

Cool if Wallner is indeed coming up. I don't get the service time manipulation argument though. I think that even if came up now and stayed for the season he wouldn't get credit for a season of service time. the rule is you have to have 172 days in a year to get a year of service time. I think right now is a free shot but please correct me if I'm wrong We can disagree with how the organization ranks players, but let's not look for conspiracies that don't exist.

Bundy kind of has to pitch. He's our #3 starter now. Let's make Ober and Varland ##4 and 5.

Agree with Mike on all points. Especially well, all of them .

Guys, this season is pretty much over. It's time to play guys thinking about next year. Let's see if Gordon can improve against lefthanded pitching. He's a solid OF hitting around #6 next year if he can even be average against lefties. Celestino looks like a 4th OF at best but let's give him consistent at bats and see. I don't think Miranda is great at 1B, but he can hit so he has to play somewhere next year . Frankly, I would give him more innings at 3B so we can decide if we want to tender or trade Urshela. Get Ober and Varland in the rotation for the rest of the year and leave them in unless they get injured. Find out what we have for next year in these next 23 games for goodness sakes.