Battle ur tail off

Agree 100%! No, the pitcher wouldn't have to be considered an ace. But, you do need ACE like performance from 1-2 guys to make real noise IMO. Do we have any of those guys? Maybe? Hopefully!!

I'm with you. I am all in with analytics being a part, and even a large one on how they approach the game and season overall. But I think we saw that this year, the game is played on a field, with players, that are humans, not on a computer screen where we can predict results based on calculations. I think it starts with fundamentals being taught(stressed!) again throughout the entire system. Accepting no less than your very best effort on every play. Doing things the right way, LEARNING every game. I think it ends with management (FO and manager), realizing that there are no hard and fast rules in this game. You still have to use your EYES to a certain extent on a game by game basis. That means running once in a while if it looks like it's available, letting your pitcher go out there for a 6th or 7th inning if they are dealing. Not giving chance after chance to a bullpen guy that clearly is slumping. Yes, overall, use the numbers to give yourselves the best chance as it pertains to a full season. BUT, each individual game is different and to be SO RIGID with your decisions, gives you exactly the type of year we saw this season. Oh and find a way to keep guys healthy. If this means a different training, nutrition, strength regimen or flat out not bringing in so many guys with injury histories, whatever, this has to change as well.

My point is, the cart doesn't come before the horse. You mostly are not going to the world series or winning it if you don't have a guy that gives you over 160 innings of 3-ish or under ERA ball. 2 of them is better. In the history of baseball, there hasn't been a team that has won the WS with gaggles of 4 and 5 type guys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Series_starting_pitchers Just look at this list. It's a who's who of ace pitchers throughout the years. I don't see a team in there with 4 #4 guys. The only one I can remember that has bucked this trend has been the 2015 KC Royals. They also may have had the best bullpen in the history of baseball though...

It is rare, but teams that don't have it are never true contenders. I would argue that some of it is luck(drafting, developing, trading) for an ace. That said, it is needed if you ever want to be a favorite or a team with more than a chip and a chair. When is the last time a team won the WS without 1 or even 2 ace type pitchers? I just cannot remember one as long as I have watched baseball. Heck, to even get there you need one.

1 starter, 1 bullpen player each year. Every 2-3 years, one of those starters needs to be something more than a #5 type guy. I honestly don't think they have done a terrible job since getting here developing pitchers. What they haven't done though, is develop anything or have anything in the pipeline even that projects as top of the rotation. This will continue to be the main thing that holds this franchise back from being a real contender.

They watched it happen for 2/3 of the season, yet this last third, they continued to yank effective starting pitchers in favor of their bullpen. They had their chance, I don't think you will see them change. Had they been open to change, they would have done so and we would still be talking about being in a playoff race. Not sure if it is arrogance or what, but they have been rigid in pitching staff usage and it cost them the division this year IMO.

If these three were all healthy, I like them 150% better than using Archer, Bundy, Smeltzer, etc. Problem is, the most likely scenario is getting 4-5 innings out of each of them then taxing the heck out of your bullpen. Pagan and Megill will pitch this series. They will be the ones to make or break them. Book it.

No problem. Sorry if it bothered ya. I will refrain and probably shouldn't have come in here with this stuff. Just frustrated is all. Obviously want to see the kid do well. And want to see someone come through at some point that is a top of the rotation starter, that is all.

9th round pick. That is all you have to know. #3-5 starter at best. Great and all, but we need top end guys. Getting value out of late round picks and finding guys in places others don't look is great to keep you close. But until we can identify, draft, and develop guys in the early rounds to be legit studs, this will be the same team over and over and over. So far any pitcher Falvine has drafted high hasn't amounted to anything yet. Heck, they haven't even tried drafting pitchers early for the most part.

I think it was 2015 and their bullpen was maybe the best in the history of baseball that season also!! Have to have one or the other. Can't be middle of the road to poor in both categories and expect to contend.

Here's the only thing though. With that gaggle of starters, we still at best just win our division. We need someone from within our system(preferrably 2) to be able to step in a give us a 180 inning, under 3 ERA season or we have no shot at REALLY contending. Right now, that looks like #3 and 4 starters galore. That or our bullpen has to be filled with absolute HAMMERS. Right now we have 1 or 2 I would classify in that category.

I get it and I am competitive that way too. Thing is though, they have had the rosters both this year if healthy, and in 2019 to win it all. What they are missing is 2 bulldog starting pitchers. Every team is missing them right now except teams like Houston, Yankees, Dodgers, maybe Atlanta. And let's be honest, those are the only teams that have a shot without lightning striking.

I think overall they have done fine. They need to develop a couple top of the rotation arms though with this next core, or it will be more of the same. Bad one year, win our poor division the next and bow out early. I like that they are aggressive in trades and signings. Stay the course. Figure out how/who/what it takes to develop a couple guys that can give him 6-7 solids more nights than not and they will get there. Oh, and figure out what is going on with all of these injuries. This can't continue to happen to every single core player we have on our roster or minor league pitcher we have.

I am with you on almost this entire post. Rocco won't be fired, but he has done a poor job managing the pitching staff this year. The team has lacked fundamentals and made plenty of bonehead baserunning plays also. His teams have consistently been atop the list for errors per game as well. I don't care if this makes a 2 game difference or 10, but it makes a difference.

Going against other teams mop up men is what it is. Simple as that. Down by 4 or better late, the other team is going to put someone in there to rest their better arms.

Polanco. That is it. Don't count on the rest of them at all. I am not. He is the only one that has a chance to come back IMO. Expecting anything out of the rest of them would be pure luck I think. Maybe see some Buxton yet.

No team is built for October when they have a manager that is built for 12u baseball. He's bad and the reason we are even in this situation. Had he got even half of his pitching substitutions right this year we would be up by 5 games right now and cruising.

Sox are hot now too and overtook us last night. We are in third place. Even if we were to win the next couple games, we will still likely be in 3rd. Bundy just can't do that, he can't. And Rocco continues to have no brain when it comes to the pitching staff leaving Bundy in to get shelled like that. Honestly, at this point, I would be OK with Correa just making pitching changes. We would get better results. If they don't win these next 2 games, it's going to be hard to come back and win this division. Now we are fighting more than Cleveland.

With you, but he is the only guy that can play a good centerfield right now and to be honest, he is close to a plus defender out there I'd say. He has made a few of these type of brain fart type mistakes this year. I remember a game he forgot how many outs we had on a pop fly he caught and allowed the runner to advance thinking it was the third out. Someone needs to work with him on paying better attention and doing some of the small things that help you win game. Coach it, make him repeat it over and over in practice, before games, etc. Gladden had some nice commentary yesterday about how they used to practice at each base while their team was hitting BP each day. A few reps from each base, thinking and executing different situations depending on where the ball was hit, etc. In fact, this inspired me to do this with some of my girls at their softball practices. LOL

Watch games with eyes. See pitcher has something good going that day, let them go. See pitcher is struggling that day, pull them early. I do not understand when this started to not become a thing.

I flat out don’t believe him. If you make it to that level you have experienced failure already and also worked your butt off training etc for lots of years. You come tough if you make it to the majors or you don’t get there. It’s them. It’s Rocco it’s whoever but players aren’t inherently that soft.

Not sure yet. But I can tell you that after watching them for as long as I have the Twins I know better than than to get my hopes up…

Sb after sb. This is how analytics should be used. Find a weakness and exploit it.

At least after this series we can kind of tune out and put our energy into the Vikings disappointing everyone and just missing the playoff again

lol. You just can’t make it up. He might as well join the rest of the pitching staff in giving up homer after homer after homer. And to a guy that never hits em our staff gives up 2 to him this series