d-mac

I'd still file that under SSS.

Wouldn't be the first Twin to have this happen. Kennys Vargas says hi!

Ditto, but Dozier strikes me as more of an offseason type trade. Plus, the demand for second base seems weak this year at the deadline, not area of need for contenders.

http://i.imgur.com/7drHiqr.gif?noredirect Happy to oblige, Nothing like Ron Paul on a Thursday/Friday.

The PCL is where pitchers go to die. I'd expect him to knock off .5 ERA in the IL at least.

I didn't catch this until this morning. After the game last night, I spent some quality time with Mrs. D-Mac. This return is definitely better than I had expect to get for Nunez. With one more potential arm for the rotation next year, I wonder if the Twins will be more comfortable moving Santana now? I just hope Berrios and May get their shots before Mejia. Anybody know if is being added to the 40-man?

The counter argument to that is that you'd better not miss on a top 5 pick. As of right now, Stewart looks like a total bust and the jury is still out on Buxton.

That were both minor league free agents in May. And the Rangers gave up a former first round pick. Clearly, Santana is better and should demand a higher return.

Normally, I'm right there with you, but I'm making an exception for Gibson because of his TJ surgery- he is relatively inexperienced (85 starts) and has lower milage on his arm (less than 900 innings of pro ball). Plus he is still relatively cheap, with a few years on control left. The risk of keeping Santana around is much higher than Gibson, IMO. Santana is 5 years older, has over 2600 innings of pro ball and has a nearly identical career xFIP and SIERA to Gibson. Plus, I think it's a bit unfair to blame Gibson for his poor performance in April- he was battling an injury. After Gibson posted an xFIP of 5.72 in April, he put up an xFIP of 3.95 in June and 3.54 in July, which is kinda where he left off last year with an xFIP of 3.47 in September of last year. Santana meanwhile has posted xFIPs of 4.29, 4.17, 5.23, and 4.04.

Again, you're too caught up on the return. Which was the point of my post. Santana is not part of the future. Teams are willing to offers something of value for him now, we should do it. Btw, did you see that the Rangers dealt a former first round pick for a pair of Braves' minor league signings yesterday? Contenders are desperate for pitching this year at the deadline.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ac/ac8e1baae8535062e99d1b02ad1d3c82b124ba3aa455a8ad1c1d33b166b79be5.jpg Where did I advocate dumping him for salary relief? Total strawman. My whole post was about trading him for market value. He doesn't fit into the plan, so why not get something of value for him as his market value will never be higher? I never mentioned payroll or draft position once in my post. Go ahead, read it again. I'm waiting... EDIT: I should also mention that I wasn't claiming that anybody was advocating for a king's ransom for Santana, merely that situations like this we shouldn't get hung up on returns- "player x isn't going to net us y, so I'd rather keep x." X just isn't that valuable to us right now, I'd like y, but z is ok because eventually x is going to be of 0 value when it matters.

Who cares who's starting next year? I don't care if it's Dean, Wheeler, or a reclamation project taking the 4-5 spots as long as Berrios, May and Gibson are starting. This team ain't winning next year. Might as well get something of value for a vet that doesn't fit into the picture age-wise. Nobody is stating that we have to win every trade (well, maybe the Twins brass think we have to based on their words and actions the past 5 seasons)- no trades are ever made in a vacuum, or at least they shouldn't be. All we'd like to see is a fair return based on the market for a pitcher like Santana. Trades need to be made with a purpose- for a contender that is dealing a prospect for an upgrade at the ML level, for a team like the Twins that is trading pieces like Santana, Nunez, Suzuki, etc that won't fit into the plans 2-3 years down the road for something that could. Trying to "win" every trade by getting a better return than the other team is a fool's errand. It takes at least two willing parties to make a trade (or any transaction in a marketplace for that matter) both acting in their own self-interest. Unless the other party is a total fool (or desperate) you'll end up paralyzed- indefinitely waiting for your socks to be blown off. It's like the Twins are a store, a veteran baseball player store if you will, and Ervin Santana is a gallon milk they are selling. If the market price for a gallon of milk is $2.50, the Twins could set their price for that gallon of milk at $10, but not too many customers would be willing to pay $10/gallon of milk. Might as well go down the street to the White Sox store. The problem is the milk in and of itself isn't all that valuable to a grocery store, the money is far more desirable (grocery stores can't pay their employees in milk, for instance) and in this case the money is the currency of baseball, prospects.

I like it. I have no idea if that's a reasonable return or not.

I just don't think Santana is that good to where we have to hold onto him. Over his career he's been incredibly inconsistent from year-to-year, he's had a 4.42 xFIP in his Twin's career (he's been lucky), has a mediocre K%, he's been suspended for PEDs, and torn his UCL (but didn't repair it with Tommy John). Oh, and there's this thing called his age. He'll be 35 when Twins are likely contending again in 2018, which is an age when most pitchers are washed up by in post PED baseball.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/rays-phillies-placing-high-asking-prices-on-starters.html http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/white-sox-open-to-moving-james-shields.html Couple of interesting tidbits from the traderumors site that relate to Santana. It looks like the Rays are placing quite the high price on their young, controllable starters and the Phillies are asking for a team's top 5 prospect for a Hellicskon rental. If the asking prices for pitchers remain high, it'll make Santana more appealing. Also, looks like the White Sox are trying to deal James Shields. He's a year older than Santana, under contract through 2018 (with $1 mil buyout, like Santana), and has been fairly awful this year. However, he has a long track record of #2-3 type performances, unlike Santana. If the White Sox manage to move him, the return might be something similar to Santana. Edit: If only the Twins were more open to trading Santana...

I'm of the opinion that there needs to be a clean sweep of the front office. So it does worry me.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/central-notes-sale-rosenthal-nunez-antony.html There's this little gem over at mlbtraderumors. Sounds like ownership wants to retain Antony for 2017. Good Lord.

And there is no reason they couldn't throw in some extra cash and make him even more underpaid.

The flip side to that is Santana should return more than in a normal year since the FA market is so thin. The Twins aren't contending this year, nor next year. Santana will be 35 in 2018, when maybe we are possibly contending. His value isn't likely going up, so why not trade him now?

Well, they are delusional enough that they think they are going to compete next year.

But still, once a player turns 26, that prospect shine goes away.

My bad, I thought Palka was a year older. He is 24 though, 10/28/91. Turns 25 in october.

Agreed, but they will all get their looks before Palka. And time is not on Palka's side.

So.... has anybody figured out how Palka is going to find playing time in the majors? He's not going to supplant Kepler. Rosario will likely be given quite a bit of leash in LF. And Grossman has been pretty good. At DH/1B we have Sano (long term), Mauer, Park, and Vargas. Palka is already 25. An astute GM would recognize this back-log and try to flip Palka in the offseason.

Opportunity cost, bingo.