DocBauer

He has produced good to amazing numbers in his career thus far when healthy. Right now his biggest opponent isn't just gaining greater command/control, it's opportunity after not having a 2020 season, like everyone else. We're all frustrated by what we perceive as slow promotions this year. But let's not forget a late start and milb is just approaching their mid point, (I'm still objecting sternly to adding playoffs at the last minute as opposed to having another couple of weeks in the season for everyone)! The Twins have started to promote the last week or so. They need to be aggressive and do more, and this includes Moran amongst others. The Twins are signing fliers for St Paul right now due to injury and promotion. But AA Wichita has a couple guys that need to be up tomorrow. Really, who is blocking them except a couple fliers and a couple journeyman. Get him up!

Absolutely 100% agree extra games for everyone is far more important than playoffs after there being no 2020 season. Just a no-brainer. A last moment decision that negatively affects the players? Who's running this show the NCAA?

Just tossing this out there, but not so very long ago there was a lot of talk concerning all the changes in approach in regard to coaching in the milb system. The NEW approach is to treat each hitter as an individual and not just coach/preach a single unified approach. I believe it was Plouffe who spoke candidly about being held back by the approach of the system until he just broke free on his own and suddenly found success. Kepler and Sano were developed initially by the previous FO and previous system. Have they just not been developed to full ability because of this? Is it too late to change/develop their approach? Did Rowson make that big of a difference in 2019? Maybe he did, And I'm not asking for anyone to lose their job. And I'm not saying the current hitting coaches are poor/incompetent in any way. But maybe they are just the wrong guys for this team? I'm not saying Kepler or Sano will suddenly transform again to what we saw in 2019 with a coaching change. Maybe Rowson benefited from a fluke season? Or, maybe, did he really make a difference? If the latter is true, then a change of some sort may need to take place. When you have success as a team and get raided for coaches, it sucks but it's also a compliment to your organization. Can the FO find another Rowson difference maker? (Still assuming he was a real catalyst). I'm spitballing here but think there might be something here.

I think the point we need to clarify is Kepler as a "4th" OF. Nobody is stating he should be a true "4th OF" who only fills in. We, at least me, is really saying he'd be a 3/4 time starting OF who is also a solid CF to fill in for Buxton, thus allowing him to have the versatility of being a sort of 4th OF. In that context, his contract is absolutely not too much. What the Twins need is a RH OF bat that they can trust to be quality offensively and at least decent defensively. Now who is that guy? Could it be Rooker, Garlik or Refsnyder? I don't know. Maybe it's a small trade acquisition or a FA. And TWINFAN nails it when he states Kepler starting/playing in about 120 games provides good defense and could hit something like .260ish with 20+ HR and 75ish RBI. Picture a 2022 OF of Kirilloff splitting time at 1B, Larnach, Buxton, and Kepler with a 5th guy who is RH and can actually perform. (Yes, Arraez can figure in to LF as well). I'm really, really good with that despite that 5th guy being a mystery right now. Hypothetically, the new and improved Refsnyder would be perfect. Someone who could hit, have some pop/power and play solid/good defense. In this hypothetical, he could also be another CF option. Again, understand I'm using Refsnyder as a hypothetical example only. For him to be in the mix AT ALL he would need to get healthy soon and play out the rest of the season....with obvious regression involved....and begin to prove his new and improved self is real. But I'm just using him as an example for a multi-purpose RH hitting OF who could provide depth and flexibility and versatility. I would prefer this option, I think it's the smartest option.

Kaat wasn't available in my area because of the KC blackout so that was a bummer. I love listening to him. I don't know that the Maeda we had in 2020 is OUR Maeda, but what we have seen until today is also NOT the Maeda that pitched for the Dogers previously. Nor is the Maeda we've seen in 2021 the Maeda we saw in ST. So as far as I'm concerned, we still have a GOOD Maeda and he probably will be the rest of this season and next year. The bite is, like so much of this team/season, he wasn't himself the first half. Larnach and Kirilloff continue to impress. If you don't think Polanco and Arraez are good players and part of the future, then I'm not sure what you've been watching. Or are you only looking for the negative? I am NOT proclaiming Ober as the next great Twins pitcher. But the kid has put up video game numbers in the minors with IL stints and a FB that sat in the high 80's and low 90's. He worked very hard in the missed 2020 season to smooth out his mechanics to provide not only even better results, but to keep himself healthy. He reported once that he often didn't feel very good after starts at times. With his height and length, mechanics may be even more important. His hard work seems to have paid off as I've heard ZERO reports of injury and his velocity is up. Please drop the "extend him" arguements as his previous max IP was somewhere around 90. He missed ALL and everything in 2020 and only has a few GS in AAA before now. The Twins have been very aggressive with his promotion but are also being protective of his arm and development. They are brining him along with the idea of being part of 2022. And if you've actually watched him pitch, you can see something to be at least mildly excited about. Jax is a pitch to contact pitcher with some decent stuff, good control, who has some ceiling, but has only been a full time pitcher starting in 2019, maybe 2018.. So he has very little full milb season time until a little under half a year at AAA before being promoted early to the ML due to necessity. Around some BAD innings, he's had some good performances as well. Right now, today, with an extremely SSS size in the minors, I'd have to say his ceiling is a 4th or 5th SP who probably fits best as a middle RP/swing man. He was drafted as a flier with his AF commitment and is behind others of his age. Doesn't mean there isn't a usable arm there, just getting a late start. For those who blast the Twins for being slow to promote, I would tell you to look closer at Ober and re-consider Jax's situation. They haven't been slow with Winder either if you check things out. Drafted in 2018 and missing all of 2020, he's at AAA right now and should be with the Twins sometime the second half this season. You want Barnes to get a shot? Maybe he deserves one despite being a softer tossing pitch to contact type. And I'm NOT blasting that type of pitcher. They can be good to outstanding. But they have to have that SOMETHING to make it. Does Barnes? IDK. But he was drafted in 2017, one year before Winder. He has 2yrs of milb time and a brief stint in 2020 with the St Paul reserve team. He may get his shot but I'm just not really encouraged by his future outcome. Long way of saying the Twins aren't being slow in promoting good young arms, but 2020 and injuries have curtailed plans. And while I fully believe Winder and a HEALTHY (hopefully) Duran will be up the second half, nobody should fall asleep on Ober at this point. Don't dismiss the potential due to protecting him. They are doing so with a plan in place.

I've been a fan and supporter of his since day one and have remained hopeful of what we would see after 2019. I didn't exactly expect him to continue mash in the same way but thought we would get something close as the new normal for Max going forward. Alas, it just may not be. You can call me an apologist if you want, but I give Kepler, and about anyone else who had a poor 2020, a free pass. There were so many variables in such a weird and short season that calling 2020 an "aha" season just isn't right or fair. But no question his production has been a real bummer. And unexpected IMO. Part of the reason I just don't want to pencil Kirilloff in at 1B permanately is he's also a solid OF and I want flexibility in case Kepler is traded or his role changes. I'm OK with the right trade a good trade if one is available, I believe the entire FO and staff are going to be looking at changes from tweaking the roster to tweaking certain approaches to maybe tweaking the coaching staff. (Hitting instructors). Max is still a bounceback candidate and I sure wouldn't want to sell low on him. I agree that a good, solid RH bat to complement what we have on hand could be really smart and allow Kepler to be a part time starter and back up CF while still not being expensive. And maybe that's the best approach to take in order to maximize the roster and not sell low.

NCAA is full of crap and I can barely stand them any longer. I am in favor of the NLI for college athletes, but all they had to do was just be smart enough to set up guidelines to make it work without confusion or any feared risk if escalating earnings or any "monopoly" larger schools could further develop. Instead, they asked the system to do the work they could have and should have and look like bumbling fools yet again. I've heard the counter-arguement that this is not only good for the athletes, but smaller schools and conferences could actually benefit as a number of prospects may want to go somewhere where they could be "the guy" sooner than being a 5th string player initially. We'll see how it all works out. An expanded playoff format may also create a better balance across the landscape. And I'm not going to argue one way or another, just stating the NCAA is SUPPOSED to be intelligent enough to DO THEIR JOB and provide answers and frameworks to make things like this work. I am also very disturbed about their lack of definition for "super seniors" that were granted an extra year of eligibility due to covid-2020. The powers that be in FCS have already stated that those super seniors will not count against scholarship numbers for 2022 so schools do not have to alter recruiting efforts to account for them. They did this weeks ago but as of today, July 3rd, the NCAA hasn't been smart enough to follow suit. And this only further complicates the fact that most D1 schools are going to have about 40 red shirt freshmen in 2021. So they still have to figure this out as well, but can't seem to just make the obvious first ruling. Then there is the transfer portal debacle. Over time, for many reasons and factors, things will eventually balance out. But in football alone, there was approximately 2,000 kids in the transfer portal looking for homes and only about 130 D1 schools to hopefully choose from. How many of those schools even have room to bring in more than 1 or 2 kids? So the rest have to drop a level, go to Junior College, walk on somewhere, or maybe never continue their career and education at all. But all the NCAA did was give everyone a free year to move. Where is the interest for the well being of the athletes? Part of the answer is really simple but they were just too misguided and blind to see the most obvious solution. Despite the single season maximum recruiting numbers in place, if you lose 2 or 3 or 4 kids to the portal, then you have the go ahead to bring in the same number of transfer kids to provide them a home. I continue to be disgusted by the NCAA in general and it's only a matter of time until the power conferences just take over.

This season reminds me so much of 2018 when things just didn't go as planned/hoped/expected and the FO didn't blow things up, but they began a re-tool to get ready for 2019 and moved Pressly and Escobar for some really nice young talent. I wasn't crazy about either move, despite the return, because I felt strongly the Twins were in good position for 2019. IIRC correctly, Escobar was a pending FA but Pressly was not. So Pressly was the guy I really wanted to keep. And PLEASE, I am NOT trying to re-hash who won trades! My point, however, is that I feel almost the same way today as I did then. There is work to be done for 2022. But some "blow it up" option is not needed and rather ridiculous. Nor do i expect the FO to do so. Donaldson is not why this season crashed and burned. Despite a few unusual miscues, he's played his normally great defense and his numbers are very solid. And he's been largely healthy and dependable and in the lineup except for an early IL stint. But if they can move him, it frees up $ for other areas to address. The Twins made a big and exciting investment. It didn't work. But they took the shot. So now, maybe they can gain financial flexibility get at least a little something back, Donaldson goes to a contending team, and the Mets get some offense that they desperately need. Everyone wins. Considering the $ available to the Mets, and how determined and aggressive their ownership seems to be I'm not sure how concerned they are about a payroll ceiling. Might be a bit of posturing. Unless the Twins have to throw in a bunch of bank to make this happen, I'm OK with the trade. But with $ going out and little coming back then you have to wonder if the trade makes sense from the Twins perspective as well. Kirilloff, Larnach, Jeffers and possibly Gordon have arrived as part of the next wave. There remains a very good chance that with 3 months, left we still see Duran, Winder, Miranda, and maybe a couple pen arms who get some experience and get their feet wet for 2022. And sorry, just like the disappointing 2018, and changes needing to be made this roster is not devoid of talent. While only early rumors at this point, considering how this potential trade makes sense for both sides, I give these rumors at least semi-stable legs. It really makes a ton of sense if neither side has to give up too much, $ for the Twins and prosoects for the Mets.

IF Donaldson is moved, IMO, it does NOT signify a bad move by the Twins. Don't we all know you pass out at least semi-inflated contracts to big name veterans? You are always paying for the first couple of years and then paying for hope the final years, For the most part, Donaldson has been available and played and performed well this year. And if this season had gone as expected, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, But when a hopeful season crashes against the rocks, you have to look for changes/future options. IF Donaldson is moved, the Twins still went all in for some help. That can't be discounted. And trading him to a contender does Donaldson a solid as well. So no black eye or egg on the face. JD is not the reason the season went in the tank. And he will have to replaced as well. But the $ to work with gives greater flexibility going forward. I do find it interesting that the speculation tossed around in this thread that the Mets seem to make the most sense for all involved could be a real possibility.

Was really hoping to watch Ober with my dad tonight do what he has mostly done thus far, show potential while getting his feet wet in a rather aggressive promotion. Alas, it wasn't to be. And I'm not down on the kid. I still see something there as a back end starter with real potential. Just a young kid with a bad night. This season is about him growing, learning and adapting and getting ready for a possible future. The same can't be said about Shoemaker. By his own admission he hasn't pitched well. I don't like anyone to lose their job, but he's already guaranteed to be paid his $2M for this year. Thank you for trying. Thank you for taking one for the team tonight to save the pen for the next game. Best of luck in 2022 and the rest of your career and life. But it's time to move on. I mean, literally, the Twins could promote anyone from AAA or AA and get the same results as tonight and probably better. It's just time for both parties to go their separate ways. Give someone younger who at least has a CHANCE to be part of the future a shot/opportunity. Solid flier idea. It didn't work. Move on.

Small addendum, which kinda fits and kinda doesn't since we're talking the future of the infield without Donaldson, Palacios needs to be up at AAA SOON to see if there is something there.

Assuming Donaldson stays healthy and productive, I think, unfortunately for this premise, the time to actually trade him is next season. At that time, he's only owed a season and a half plus the POTENTIAL buyout. Even if the Twins end up having to still toss in some $, everyone is on the hook for less. The problem is, of course, banking on his performance and what if the Twins rebound in 2022 and are in contention? I just don't know if he's tradeable right now without the Twins tossing in about $20M or so. At that point, have they really gained anything? Or more to the point, did they get anything worthwhile back and does the $ savings provide enough relief that the trade actually helps? But let's speak hypothetically about a trade. Because the Mets need help offensively, because they don't have a stud 3B, because they have $, because their ownership is trying to win AND make a statement AND trying to grab the headlines from the Yankees, a move to the Mets makes the most sense and you just try to get something useful back along with the $ relief. And let's not forget it's almost a foregone conclusion the NL will have the DH starting in 2022. In regard to perception of the Twins, I see no downside. They were willing to pony up the big contract for Donaldson. They tanked 2021 and sent him to a contending team. There is no black eye there. Arraez is OK at 3B, a few bad plays, a few good ones. He might even get better playing there almost daily. Hopefully, by September at least, Miranda gets his feet wet. Polanco plays 2B and maybe a little SS. Gordon continues to play some 2B as well as CF, (maybe LF??) but also sees time at SS. You HAVE to see what you have in him there. Cripes, he's spent over half his milb career there and several games/innings during ST. In this scenario, IMO, you KEEP Simmons. I'm just not sure there is a contending team that has a NEED at SS, barring injury, and you will need a SS in 2022. Keep him for now and re-examine the market next offseason. ALL hypothetical because I just don't know if Donaldson is tradeable right now...and that's NOT a shot at his play. But this really does seem to be the best trade potential outcome for all involved.

The single biggest problem facing the Twins NOW is injuries in the minors. 2020 set back player development for everyone, but has clearly affected the development of pitchers they were really hoping would be part of 2021 and beyond. So now you have to rebound and re- set for 2022. The good news is we are seeing the future of Larnach, Kirilloff and Jeffers and even Gordon getting ML time for the future. Hopefully the same for Gordon. Not to mention the development of Alcala as a BP piece and Ober as a possible end of the rotation option. (He's looked good but is being protected for obvious reasons). Re-tooling on the fly has gone out the window, unfortunately. (Which was the original plan). But we are still seeing some exciting things between the blurred lines of wins and loses in a lost season. Hopefully, we are going to see Winder and Duran along with a couple pen options. Miranda will also see some ML time, but unless I'm mistaken, MLB in their short sighted wisdom is still limiting late season promotions. The difference between 2017 and now is the core players were just being established. Unfortunately, the 2021 Twins are more "out of it " compared to 2017. Don't give up! But be real. If you can get ANYTHING for a couple expiring contracts then do so. At some point, you have to just say you have a losing season. But it doesn't have to be a LOST season. Remember the kids already here and the kids pushing the envelope for tomorrow. Boston, for example, was supposed to be trash this year. Why can't we continue to play and audition our talented prospects and promote a few more and just make a few smart moves offseason to get ready for 2022? Even with losses we all expect, there's still a lot to like on this roster.

Just super happy to see all the promotions! Especially Winder and Miranda! Now, we need to get a couple more of those Wichita bullpen arms up to St Paul. After 2 poor years with Tampa at AA, I can see maybe being a little cautious with Palacios, still only 24yo old. But isn't it about time to see him at AAA? Disappointed in Sammons thus far, but slightly surprised to see him go back to Wichita. It seemed he was throwing at least as well if not better with the Saints than he was with the Surge. But then again, Schulfer and a healthy Sands are probably more ready for AAA at this point. Unless I am missing something, despite a rash of injuries to our top rotation prospects, isn't Enlow the only one out for the year? Even if they all miss a few weeks, really, really hoping Duran, Sands, Canterino and Rijo are only "dinged" and still get a couple mkre months of 2021 development. Really important to be careful but equally important they get real time this year along with Balazovic and Vallimont to move forward. Predicting now Winder makes his ML debut before the season is done. Duran should as well as long as he's healthy in a couple weeks. Results might not matter as much as just getting the experience and getting their feet wet. Agree I'd really like an update on Marco Raya but also Alerick Soularie. Any updates Seth? Honestly, Raya is the most intriguing 2020 draftee to me.

The Twins FO doesn't need me to defend them. And I won't. But hindsight 20/20 is very easy to blame. The Twins spent a couple roster spots on "pitching help" for the 2021 season for a team that was supposed to contend and they wanted depth. Smart! They left Badoo off the 40 man roster,young and coming off missed time. Who honestly expected him to be drafted and kept and actually perform well? Go buy a lottery ticket if you can say yes. I liked Wade a lot. I wanted to keep him. I thought be brought some potential and skill set the Twins were lacking. But when I had to compare a more experienced LH OF with better numbers and more experience, I had to go with Cave when the trade was made, Anderson I have no comment on at this time, sorry, without digging in to the ML and milb rosters 2yrs ago. I HATED losing a low level, talented prospect like Badoo. I'm OK losing a 4th OF prospect. I'm OK losing a journeyman RP, except, young enough and stats enough to tell me the FO didn't look close enough and probably protected someone not as good. Very few teams would have protected Baddoo, we just got screwed on that one. Period! But with a serious 40 man crunch coming forward, they are going to have to make 5-7 really tough choices. Is that a bad thing? It means the Twins have enough young talent to allow for such tough choices. Let's hope we're smart enough to make the RIGHT choices!

For a moment let's let the disappointment and vitriol of 2021 subside to examine 2022 and maybe even the remainder of 2021 and look to the future. We all know the fluid and crazy nature of a ML pen and RP in general. Honestly, I'm not sure it's that different than a rotation. For most teams that are successful, you have a PRIME arm and at least one close to it. It doesn't matter these days about a "closer" and "set-up" man because even though things are similar to the past, we've also see a revolution in how the bullpen is built and used across baseball. Rogers is only 30yo and has shown everyone that his "bad luck" in 2020 might have been real. Duffey hasn't been what we hoped for this season, but is also only 30yo and has looked a lot like his former self as of late. Robles was a key to the pen, IMO, when I thought the season was going to go in a different direction. He may have started a little slow, but has been QUALITY if not outstanding for some time now. He imploded recently, but was also over used for a stretch as well. Also only 30yo and still bringing high velocity and good numbers overall, does trade value actually bring more value than a re-sign? Alcala is "growing up" before our eyes. YES, he's young, inexperienced, still developing and has been a frustrating victim to the HR ball. [All the more maddening when you see his stuff and allowing HR when he seems to be cruising]. But we can all see the development taking place. A ML BP in today's game needs 8 guys with another 2-4 sitting at AAA to fill in to play the modern day roster game. Just how good is Thielbar really? So far, surprisingly good but not outstanding. But solid. Just how good could a healthy Stashak be after what we saw in 2019-20? (Hopeful) How about Thorpe getting healthy after all the hard work he put in to getting ready for 2021 and transitioning full time to the pen? The Twins made some smart gambles for pen depth and help for 2021 that have simply NOT turned out. Farrell may or may not turn out to be a surprise solid middle relief option. Hamilton may or may not turn out to be a decent flier with potential. The best rotation arms in the system excluding Duran, are all in AA or lower, for the most part. But I'm focused on the pen right now. We have some hope for a couple live arms like Cano, Moran, Neff, Mason, etc. And if Colina hadn't fallen under the "2021 curse" of injuries he would probably already be on the roster with Alcala as a top heat throwing youngster with potential. So no doubt the FO will have to prove their supposed smarts again and re-build the pen yet again. But if they keep Robles, aren't they half way there already? I'm solely looking at the pen in 2022 right now. Is there a base in place to have a quality pen moving forward?

Honestly, not sure commentening now vs waiting until this series makes sense. And I have to agree with Roger that the draft has snuck up on us and it's always so hard to project the ML draft. Harder than any other sport. I still feel the baseball draft is more the BPA than any sport. That being saidm i think tbe FO has been somewhat unfairly criticized for their draft approach since being placed in charge. It's easy to say we are overloaded with corner power bats. But would you want to not have Kirilloff and Larnach right now? How about Wallner in a couple years to replace Kepler? They HAVE drafted infielders. A few in 2018 and a bunch in 2019. Steer, Howard, Julien, Cavaco, and Mack. I'm sure I've missed one or two. While it's true they haven't drafted a ton of pitchers early they have drafted a number of pitchers, especially college pitchers. Canterino and Sands are the highest profile draftees to be sure, and they each look pretty solid early in their careers. And just not going list player after player, but there are some interesting arms with solid results so far drafted in 2018-19. Most of whom have questions, obviously, from only having a season to a season and a half at most professionally thus far. My surprise has been the short 2020 draft when supposedly there was real depth for pitching available and we chose ONE. Now Raya, 4th round HS selection, might be my favorite choice they made. No offense to the other choices or their potential, but did they get "too cute" with their selections? Did they think they were sneaking in some good position players while everyone was looking too hard at pitching and get a few steals? Maybe. Jeffers wasn't supposed to be picked where he was and look how that's turned out so far. But unless quality pitching just isn't there when the Twins select, I really hope they add a couple upside arms early in this draft. There IS real depth of talent in the system right now. Unfortunately, a missed season and a rash of injury is setting back their combined development by a season or more right now. And you should never ignore available talent. But I'm really hoping for a couple good college arms with projection who could add the the system and create even better depth than we have currently. You need numbers to find your future rotation, but you also need guys who could transition to the pen as well.

Great concept and I embrace it 100%! And I understand your parameters, but I feel Berrios and Buxton WILL be given offers...whether or not they accept is to be determined and I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole...and I believe BOTH are off the table at this time with the Twins planning on keeping both for 2022. And I hate to be a downer, especially because it's not my nature, but for a variety of reasons, I don't think the Twins have a lot of ammunition to trade for anything other than fliers and lower level prospects. Where I DO THINK they could come out on top is trying to acquire BP arms at AAA and AA who could contribute soon. "What? That's crazy Doc! Aren't you just talking about a different form of dumpster diving?" Not at all! (And I still hate that term!) But there are bullpen pitchers of at least decent quality in other organizations and SP who either need to move to the pen or are already make the transition. Think Rogers or Duffey a couple years ago or more recent examples like Duran or Stashak or the now gone Chalmers. So here I go position by position: CATCHER: No trades. Period. First of all, I don't see anyone wanting Garver right now post surgery. We're not even sure when he will be back. Secondly, he just might be a primary DH in 2022 as well as a part time 1B and backup to Jeffers. (Keeping his bat in the lineup daily but transitioning him from the dish due to past concussions and this latest surgery). FIRST BASE: Honestly, if I'm a contending team needing a bat, especially in the AL because he can also DH, I could be in on Sano. He's turned in to a solid 1B and despite his "streakiness", I could plug him in anywhere from 4-7 in my lineup and live with the bad moments/streaks because he can carry my team offensively for weeks on end at times. Which is also the reason I DON'T trade him unless the return is a solid player/prospect. He's just too good and too dangerous to "give away" despite frustration and said "streakiness". But he may be replaceable and his loss gains a few $M for roster flexibility and extensions. 2B/SS/3B: IMO, these are intertwined. Unless the return is really good, I keep Polanco. If you haven't been paying attention, despite his ankle barking at him a few weeks ago, he has found his stroke again, after self-confessing he was struggling early, and has once again become dangerous and one of the lineups best bats. He's OK at SS and shows flash at 2B once he settles in more there. Arraez brings something to the table the lineup lacks, that being an OB machine and high quality hitter. Look, he's never going to be great defensively wherever you put him. And I'm OK with that! He is an OK 2B who has been asked to play there, SS, 3B and OF and been largely tossed in to positions he's never played before and been OK. Some bad, some good. And the dude is a GAMER as well as a producer. When did being a "gamer" become a bad thing? I don't trade him unless I get something back tbat I think can really help. Again, be brings something to the table the lineup lacks. Is there a contending team that needs a SS, or believes Simmons could be a utility player that helps them get over the top? If so, trade him and get what you can. But unless Polanco moves back to SS next season, or Gordon suddenly shows ability there with opportunity, the Twins will probably need a SS in 2022. (The kids in the system just aren't ready and probably all need a season of development still). Get what you can if someone wants Simmons. Maybe you sign him again in the off-season or someone else. Lewis won't be ready and even if Palacious gets half a season at St Paul, is he going to be the real deal? He has matured WAY BEYOND from what he DIDN'T do while being in the Rays organization. But can he develop and prove himself that quickly? Donaldson is a very different circumstance. Despite a few gaffs, his defense is still very good. After a slow start and brief injury time, he's been heating up. And he's just the type of veteran player that could carry a team for a time, including winning it all. And the problem with trading him isn't HIM, or what he might produce the next 2yrs, but his contract and his 5th season buyout. You NEVER stop believing in a veteran bat and good defensive player like Donaldson or cut short his potential impact in a lineup. What if he transitions to 1B or DH and becomes the next Cruz? Trade him if you can. But almost certainly, you have to toss in $ to cover the next 2yrs and his buyout. At that point, unfortunately, you only achieve a status quo of $ spent and a decent prospect. IMO, he's going to be hard to move and best case scenario might be trusting in him, hoping for the best, and moving him in 2022 or the next off-season. The financial cost will be less and it gives someone like Miranda a little more time to get ready. Or is the FO and ownership willing to eat $15-20M? DH: Speaking of DH, what to do with Nellie? No matter how great he has been and still is, does anyone see a re-signing of a 41yo DH for 2022? But he could be very valuable to an AL team in contention for 2021. But what kind of return does he bring for a half season? Moving him might be a gift to him to try and go out on top! Move him, absolutely, if you can get a decent young arm with some potential. Again, a AA/AAA BP type arm could be valuable and available. If you can't get that, then screw it. Keep him and let his experience, performance and leadership continue to work for the rest of 2021 on the roster. OF: Unless someone thinks Max is an answer and offers up something of quality, status quo here. There is no reason Kirilloff can't be part of the future OF AND 1B at this point. No need to pigeon hole him there. He and Larnach are here to stay, period, with position status fluid. Absolutely there is depth coming up and I have a feeling Refsnyder shouldn't be dismissed as a replacement for Cave. And I love the idea of Celestino and others coming up to create competition and maybe change the offensive approach with more speed. But we're good here for now. Rooker also fits in here as well as DH. Look, the kid has hit and produced everywhere he has played. He was a "darling" prospect always in the top 10-15 and looked good in his SSS last year. He either has a shot at OF/DH/1B soon or he should be traded to someone else individually or as part of a package. Where and when did he just become a bum or an also-ran? STARTING PITCHING: Get something for Happ if you can. Does someone believe in his history to offer up a decent milb arm for him? Pineda was a smart signing and all he's done is be good/great when on the mound. Unfortunately, as is the case for most of bad luck and injury in 2021, he's on the IL right now. Is there still value? BULLPEN: Sorry if you don't like this idea, but I DON'T trade Robles. He has been everything I hoped he would be when sjgned, a proven BP arm coming off a bad season. Has he been over-extended recently? Yep! I'd keep him and re-sign. A 2022 pen STARTING with Rogers, Duffey, Robles and Alcala makes me feel pretty good. Unless we decide we are going to "blow up" a roster that won back to back ALC titles and went to playoffs and have a system in place that has a lot of young prospects already in place for the future, I think a re-tool is at hand.

This is almost unfair as I could look back on 50yrs of following the team and guys I liked and guys I had high hopes for. Marshall, Morales, Wilfong, Castino, Corbett, Redfern, Engle, etc. But one of my favorites that won't go down in the annals of Twins history is Randy Bush. He played 1B and both OF corners and was a regular DH and one of the league's best PH during his career. And I will never forget how he literally helped steal a game against the Tigers back in '87.

Lots of great points and perspectives here. I am deliberately staying away from the service time debate a couple years ago, despite my own thoughts, as I really don't think it is a factor. What IS a factor is the injuries and the loss of availability in his career. And it can't be ignored by the Twins OR Buxton. He and his representation are fully aware of injuries and missed time. And while it's possible Byron and his reps could posture and speculate what he's worth when healthy and all the numbers he produces when in the lineup and want to "bet" on future health, they also understand reality. You can bet on that even if they won't want to admit it. Levi is also correct to point out that with few exceptions, the 5+ year signings have disappeared. And teams may drool over the potential of Buxton and dream of having him in their lineup and WANT to bank on his being healthy going forward, but they also understand the reality and potential gamble. None of this is to demean Byron's ability, talent impact or potential impact. I'm just talking reality that can't be ignored by either side. While virtually impossible to accurately do, you almost have to try and look at this from Buxton's perspective. At some point, being one of the very best prospects in all of baseball, hard working and convinced of his talent and future he probably dreamed of making over $200M in his career. But life slaps you upside the head at times and you deal with multiple injuries, ONE season so far when you've played more than 92 games, a shift in the market, plus covid having at least some additional financial impact on the game, and you're 27yo and a father and you want security and as much $ as you can despite everything that has happened and changed. So the Twinsm in theory, offer you something like 5yrs and $100M guaranteed with incentives that could be as much as an additional $5M per year. Do you turn that down? Betting on yourself is one thing, but turning down $100M plus guaranteed has to be tantalizing to say the least. If you ARE wanting to bet on yourself then you see that extra $25M just sitting there for you and you would be coming off your age 32 season with the ability to sign another deal as a corner OF, probably, who might even DH at some point. If he wants to bet on himself to the degree where he thinks someone would offer him 5yrs at a guaranteed $150M, I think the Twins may have to pass. There is just too much risk to invest in. But if Buck looks at his past and his future with an honest and realistic eye, if he believes in himself, if he enjoys playing in Target Field, if he enjoys being a Twin and the past two seasons and what still looks like a good future, he would have be looking at a potential $125M GUARANTEED with future earnings available. He seems like a good guy and a smart guy. I could absolutely see him accepting a deal like that. Life changing money for his entire family he can bank on. I could be WAY OFF! But I don't think this kind of offer is something he would just dismiss. Now, I'm also on board with Berrios for a 5yr $90-100M extension as well, but that's a different topic.

#1] Barnes has been promoted more aggressively than I ever expected. I just can't believe this is convenience simply because they needed a AAA arm. Not NOW, but you have to consider giving him a shot before the year is done. Maybe Jax as well. There will be holes and opportunity. #2] Winder is just about ready for a AAA stretch promotion and a late season audition. Don't hold him back. Let him get his feet wet, much like Ober, and take some lumps if necessary, and get him ready for 2022. Hopefully the same for Duran if his injury is mild. Really hoping Sands will be OK and get at least a 2nd half at AAA. There are a trio of RP at Wichita that need to move up, at least after the draft, and get AAA work with the idea of at least progressing. #3] Play Gordon, and play him at SS as well. You see enough in him to protect/keep him. SSS notwithstanding, you are seeing potential and ability at this point, worthy of keeping him on the 26 man roster. Athletically, he would seem to have the ability to play SS. He was drafted as a SS. He has continued to play SS in the minors as well as ST just this year. He supposedly doesn't have the arm to be a pure SS. And yet, he continues to play SS in the minors and ST. Could an offseason of gaining his weight and strength back help his arm as well as his bat? I fully appreciate the idea of a contending team, or even a team shooting for .500 plus thinking Polanco is the 2nd best SS option. But aren't we now coming in to the evaluation and development phase for the rest of the year? How can you possibly play him at SS at AAA and ST, and then believe in his athleticism enough to transition him to CF with ONLY practice time and NOT also play him at SS to see what you have? I am NOT saying I believe Gordon is a starting ML SS. But I believe the ability is there to be at least a viable backup option there. If not, if he truly stinks, then why has he been playing the position in the first place the past few years? Let the kid play 2B/SS/CF and see what you have. This is the perfect time to see who he is and might be. If you don't, NOW I begin to wonder what the FO and coaching staff are thinking.

I get you 100%! But other teams have scouts and, presumably, they are competent. Watts has shown flashes and some projection. Lynch was largely a disappointment, but is only in his 2nd year. Twyman opting out and then getting overweight and blowing his testing is what shoved him down the board, not his potential or what he did previously. Look, I am all about the Vikings building the best defense and DL they can! I'm just worried that if everyone is healthy, in shape, and working with Patterson with actual camps and pre-season that we are going to lose a quality DT to someone with real potential. And I just hate losing young talent.

Sticking only to the OP.... 1] Agreed it's way too soon to speculate but I appreciate John's efforts with the trade deadline comingup. 2] Part of the reason it's too early is 2021 revenue is impossible to determine at this point. And I don't have current projections and goodness knows what the Twins are speculating only 1/3 of the season gone. And yes, it appears the Twins are done from a competitive standpoint this season. But with better health and better overall play this team may be able to reach .500. Further, with 100% capacity and fans just wanting to do to the park after not being able to in 2020 has to have some affect, not to mention a team featuring a group of talented youngsters they may want to see. So this is going to be fluid. However....and I hate to reference John's and Aaron's podcast but I need to....I believe the Twins will be taking a "re-load" view for 2022 and not a "re-build". And I've stated this myself as well previously. The difficult part of this is the delayed and shortened milb season and now some injuries and potential set-backs that affect the "re-tooling on the fly" aspect that the FO clearly had in mind. Allowing for at least decent gate receipts, the debuts of some promising prosoects, and a few more that will inevitably follow, and a roster that is by no means devoid of talent, a re-tool seems in order. So with all of that being said, I believe the FO/ownership will push the 2022 payroll back up in to the $140-145M payroll area. That gives them about $45+M to spend barring trade surprises. Had this team just done what was expected of them, I could have argued higher, but that's not what happened. I say pending surprises because I just don't see Donaldson or Sano moving unless the Twins kick in substantial $, especially in the case of Donaldson. And at that point, I don't know that you've really gained enough value and flexibility to even make a move worthwhile. And it's not like Donaldson, in particular, is a bad player. I am not going to break down an entire roster at this point, it would be a sloppy back of the napkin to be sure. But I just don't see a 41yo Cruz back. But I do see Robles back to combine with Rogers, Duffey and Alcala to allow for the nucleus of a solid pen. And I'd keep Garver as a backup catcher and 1B who also DH a lot to keep him in the lineup almost daily. Larnach and Kirilloff are here to stay and will only get better. Gordon is getting a long and deserved look as part of the 2022 roster as a utility player. Rooker still has a shot. Refsnyder MIGHT have changed his approach enough to be a viable RH bench ootion who could fill in a lot of places. I'm sure not counting on he and Gordon, but we have 2/3 of a season to see if they could be real bench options for next season. ASSUMING for just a moment that either Berrios and/or Buxton were signed to extensions, they might eat up part of the $45M I'm saying the Twins have to spend. But most of their $ would be for 2023 and beyond. Unless there is another Odorizzi/Maeda trade out there, the FO will need to spend a legitimate $14-18M on a SP. The $45M starts to be whittled down rather quickly, but there's still room, IMO, for an OF depth piece and a couple RP arms to add to the nucleus in place and the "other" arms currently on hand. I'm confused/concerned about an ever day SS, but maybe Simmons again or someone like a Galvis, though I'm not sure what he signed for last off-season. Just spitballing. You have to be smart. You have to see what the remaining 2/3 of the season brings you if course. Do Ober and Dobnak continue to advance and look like options? Is Duran OK and finishes the season strong? How about Winder, Sands and Balazovic finishing strong? Is Barnes at least a solid option? (He's surprised me in performance and advancement thus far). Too many variables! But I'm sticking with "re-tool" and about $45M to spend.

Yes. 5DT. No problem. But Watts actuallyshows real potential. Lynch was rather disappointing as a rookie, but also has real potential and was tossed in to a weird season with NO camps or pre-season to develop. Then we draft Twyman late who would have been a 2nd round pick last year if he came out. But sitting out and a poor performance in workouts made him slide. I'm OK with the Richardson signing because it makes us deeper and better! But from a futures perspective, who from Watts, Lynch and Twyman do you see going unclaimed in order to be part of the PS? I'm thinking we'd be very lucky to keep any cut.

Well played Broc...well played! Just my opinion, but I ABSOLUTELY believe Astudillo is a ML player. And I have watched his defense closely every single time I've watched him, except that I have missed him at 2B and CF. And I ABSOLUTELY believe he brings something to this team beyond being an OK hitter and OK/solid/decent defender wherever he plays. He is that last guy on a MLB roster who can fill in wherever you need. He is that last guy on an NFL roster who is a great ST player and brings energy. And he is that last guy on an NBA roster who seldom plays, but brings that passion and energy to play who sits for days and then comes in to play hard and give or get fouls and sets a tone. Astudillo is more than a decent/mediocre player. And if you've ever played on a team at any level you understand what I mean. Hell, just being a fan of any sport at any level you knkw tbere are just those guys who contribute and fill in here and there and help but also are part of the construction of the TEAM . I've said for a while, however, that I thought the Turtles time with the team was limited simply due to an eventual roster crunch. 40 man or not, I can still see a place for him yet this season and maybe 2022. And while I like him and appreciate all he does and brings to the team, I am also very surprised and happy to see him sent down to allow Gordon to remain. My feelings on Gordon have always been mixed. Despite his lineage, his draft report card had him 50/55 in all categories. That's a top 5 pick??? But then he put up solid numbers. And like a lot of young prospects, he started slow at his next level and then acclimated and did well. He made steady progress. And then he was hampered by an intestinal disorder. As a father of a child with Crohn's Disease, I can assure you that an intestinal disorder is nothing to dismiss. But he get's his life habits under control, has a great start to 2019, and then has a bum ankle just when the Twins need someone. Enter Arraez with about 2 weeks of AAA time and the rest is history. Gordon then misses ALL of 2020 due to Covid and is hospitalized and loses....by reports...25lbs....which he couldn't afford to lose to begin with. So he finally gets his shot in 2021, this mixed up season, and hits, plays defense OK, steals bases, and adapts at least decently to CF on the fly. Wow! How mixed up could this kid's life, much less his baseball career life be, and he's here NOW showing there might actually be a reason the FO stuck by him? I know it's SSS, but how can you not be excited for this kid? He's one of just a few we've seen in this lost season with others to come. I feel bad for Astudillo, but I feel GREAT for Gordon. My hope for him is not only continued playing time....you played him at SS in ST so let him play there there now in a lost year to see if he could be at least decent there....but I hope he will work with a strength coach to add good muscle and get his body back to what it should be and could be. A few more pounds of man-muscle, still only 25yo and his past considered, he could find a little more power and maybe his arm even gets stronger.