Major League Ready

We heard the "they are in 1st place" logic over and over. The fact is they were not close to being a serious contender given the number of injuries prior to the deadline. They had been below 500 for June and July. How does that make us a contender? They probably set the franchise back far more by trading all of those assets and not trading Correa than they did by not signing Correa. You can always spend the $315M elsewhere. They would have a boatload of prospects that would have been better spent in the off-season on longer terms assets.

I was a supporter of the Urshela / Donaldson trade when it was being criticized. That said, I see it the same way. However, I would add the possibility Kirilloff is back. Then there is nowhere to play Miranda for certain.

We all knew the disparate revenue/spending was a problem going into the last CBA. I could be wrong, but didn't the league propose a more aggressive luxury tax and keeping the threshold to a modest increase. The players held on were ready to strike if they did not get a significant increase in the threshold and more modest penalties. At least that's how I remember it. I didn't want a strike but the writing was on the wall for the gap to widen. The league should have insisted on measures that at least held the disparity at previous levels. They allowed it to get worse and fans supported it in general because we did not want to go without baseball.

Do you know what the average revenue per fan is for a Twins fan attending a game or do we need to use league average to do the math? Edit: I just found the information on Statista. The Twins rank 21st in average expenditure at $170.89 for a family of 4. Therefore, if the spend an extra $40M and get the typical 4 wins, they would have to draw an incremental 941,000 fans. The odds of breaking even are exceptionally low.

I highlighted the "Atlanta option" and pointed out that this form of locking up talent is more feasible and that it's being done and why, so we are in complete agreement on that strategy. Who have the Twins passed on extending? Rosario - That would have been a horrible decision. Berrios - Too early to say but as of this moment that decision looks very good. The chose the other option of trading for prospects. That strategy has been incredibly important and a common theme among playoff teams constructed by below average revenue teams. It's unpopular but undeniably effective. If "over spending" for a short period was and effective strategy. In other words, a strategy that would generate interest and therefore revenue to offset that expenditure, teams would be doing it on a regular basis. You are presuming to have discovered a strategy the front office does not understand. I seriously doubt that's the case. It sounds like a justification for something for which you and every other fan including me has a very biased interest. I would love to see them overspend but at $10M a win I know the odds of that expenditure being recouped is extremely low.

We are in partial agreement. One of the differences between the Dodgers / Yankees and the Royals / Guardians, and Twins is that they keep their stars. No doubt about it that's a key difference. The other key difference is the basis for the first difference. The Dodgers and Yankees have literally double the revenue which enables them to keep anyone they want. I am quite certain, the Twins / Guardians, and Royals would do the same if they had double the revenue. I am just dumbfounded that anyone has an expectation that teams in the bottom half of revenue retain free agents getting these enormous contracts. There is one absolute certainty to winning for the Twins, Guardians, and Royals. These teams have to produce twice as much per dollar spent compared to the top teams. Spending 25% of their payroll capacity (not to be confused with actual payroll) makes it very difficult to produce the necessary WAR per dollar spent. That's why they are willing to keeping stars when they can extend them early at lower AAV. The Twins extended Polanco, Kepler, and Sano. Not exactly starts but productive per dollar spent. The Rays with Franco and Ramirez with the Guardians. I am a big fan of how Houston sustained success, but their success was a product of keeping a couple key players. (Bregman / Altuve) They were able to extend them at a substantial but reasonable cost and they did not have to give them contracts long-past the years they will likely be productive. While they have a substantial revenue advantage over the Twins, Guardians, and Royals, the Astros can't operate like the Yankees / Dodgers either. They let Springer, Correa, and now Verlander go. Their continued success was a product of their ability to add inexpensive talent. Position players Alvarez / Pena and McCormick. Pitchers Valdez, Javier, Garcia, Neris, and Montero.

By stance you mean reciting the facts instead of ignoring hard data because I don't like what it indicates? Would it be preferable to have the Royals results? They won a WS. They also have the worst win percentage of any team in the league since the turn of the century. In the 25 years preceding the Royals brief success in 2013-15, they had 2 seasons where they reached a 500 win record when they won 84 games in 1993 and 83 games in 2012. They have not been above 500 since. They won 90 games or more exactly once in the past, the year they won the WS. How did they assemble that team? All of the players with a WAR above 1.5 are listed below along with how they were acquired. This is broke down into Drafted / Trade / Free Agent / International and acquired as prospect (AaP) It would be accurate to say that after years of futility and high draft picks they assembled an adequate core. That core got a huge boost when they acquired their best player (Cain) and their SS (Escobar) by trading an established player (Zack Greinke). The total contribution of free agents was 2.7 WAR from Edinson Volquez who is far from the profile fans clamor for in a free agent. His contract was 2ys/$17M. They made two trades, Zobrist at the deadline. Did he make the difference in their 4-1 series win. The other was Wade Davis who was very impactful but let’s be honest he was a piece added in a trade for Shields who was gone when they won the WS. So, yes, they won the WS and were horrible for most of 3 decades. When they did win, traded a great player for prospects was far more important than free agents. They also had no players that they had extended in route to building that winner. They kept Gordon on the following years and never broke 500. Lorenzo Cain 140 6.1 AaP Mike Moustakas 147 3.8 Drafted Eric Hosmer 158 3.5 Drafted Alex Gordon 104 2.7 Drafted Kendrys Morales 158 2.1 AaP Alcides Escobar 148 1.5 AaP Ben Zobrist 59 1.5 Trade Jarrod Dyson 90 1.4 Drafted Yordano Ventura 163.1 2.7 Intl Edinson Volquez 200.1 2.7 FA Wade Davis 67.1 2 Trade

I know I am hoping the kid lights it up at AAA to start the season and takes over by mid-May. He might actually be an exciting player. Let Gordon and farmer split it for the 1st 6 weeks.

WS wins have been dominated by large market teams and that disparity is probably going to grow. Small market teams are at a tremendous disadvantage. We should be annoyed at fans but we should also recognize the inequity as the problem not an organization that has overcome the disparity. For myself, I refuse to let my enjoyment of the game be dictated by an outcome that would happen once ever 30 years on average if conditions were equal and we got our share. The Cleveland fans that are not paying attention to how they have succeeded think they are trying to cut payroll. If you look at their history, their success has been a product of getting great returns on players they can't extend. Their team would not be a contender if not for trading Kluber / Clevinger / Carrasco, and Lindor. Further illustrating the point, Kluber, Clevinger and Carrasco were acquired by trading established players for prospects. The angst those Cleveland fans are feeling is a result of not understanding how their team outperformed teams that can easily spend double their payroll budget.

I tallied the wins for the last 6 years as I contemplated the relative success/failure of the twins during the Falvine era. Turns out Cleveland has the 4th most wins in MLB during that period. They are also extremely well-position with a very young/talented roster. Maybe Cleveland fans should reconsider their position. The Twins are 10th by the way. 1 Dodgers 562 2 Astros 541 3 Yankees 518 4 Guardians 493 5 Rays 492 6 Braves 483 7 Brewers 481 8 Red Sox 479 9 Cardinals 475 10 Twins 451 11 Athletics 451 12 Cubs 450 13 Mariners 442 14 Mets 437 15 Giants 431 16 Blue Jays 431 17 Phillies 424 18 Rockies 417 19 Padres 412 20 Diamondbacks 411 22 White Sox 410 22 Angels 408 23 Reds 386 24 Rangers 373 25 Nationals 373 26 Pirates 368 27 Marlins 364 28 Royals 362 29 Tigers 341 30 Orioles 337

I wonder if there is any chance they give Martin a shot after a great fall league. I am not advocating, just wondering. I could see Gordon holding down that spot until Lewis is back.

That's a very interesting option. He only played 47 games last year but was great. You have the fact he is 37 to consider. That's always scary. I think they are committed to Miranda at 3B which I absolutely support over signing a 37 y/o free agent. We need some long-term solutions. Let's see if Miranda can handle 3B. Play him at 1B? Not if they believe Kirilloff will be healthy. Even if they are not, I would prefer Arrez there over a 37 y/o. Now, if they trade Arrez, I can see it.

Makes a lot of sense if Martin can replace him but that has some risk. If someone offers a good return, I think they should take it but they have a couple years to make that move. On the other hand, Gordon and Martin together would be great together. They could have a couple big bat corner guys on the bench and still be well-covered for every position.

The one that stands out for me is a trade we didn't make for Verlander. Detroit was probably never going to trade him in the division but I thought he was starting the decline phase. I love him as a pitcher I just thought the signs were there. Boy was I monumentally wrong.

Gallo has a career OPS of 770 against LH pitching. Is there anyone available that's better against LH pitching. Can they play corner OF / CF and 1B. Keep in mind a 1 year contract is quite advantageous when you have prospects knocking at the door.

By the time Lee and Lewis are regulars the infield most likely is made up of Kirilloff / Lee / Lewis and Miranda.

I would not say they need to start over because several the guys that can be the solution are here. However, that's just semantics. I definitely agree in concept. The old core of position players was simply not good enough and the pitching pretty much nonexistent. Where we go from here is to transition to a new core. Infielders: Miranda / Lewis / Lee and Kirilloff if the wrist surgery is successful. Utility players: Gordon / Martin and probably Julien OFers: Buxton / Larnach / Wallner and eventually Rodriquez. SP: Ryan / Ober and fill the rest between Varland / SWR / Prielipp / Raya and Festa. RP: Duran / Alcala are penciled in for the next few year. Jax and Moran are probable. Megill has a decent shot at becoming a solid RP as well. From there fill between the myriad of arms we have in the system and free agency. Hopefully Canterino gets healthy and plays a significant role in the pitching staff. This process would be aided if they can get something for Kepler. Trading Arraez or Polanco would add to the cause. Ideally, the Twins take a chapter out of the play books of Oakland / Tampa and Cleveland and trade for MLB ready talent. Gray or Mahle could also be moved depending on where the team sits in late July.

Hard to say where this goes. They have several players with questionable health. Buxton / Mahle / Kirilloff / and Lewis. Then, they have a few guys either looking to prove themselves or bounce back from poor performance. Lopez and Gallo for bounce back candidates. Larnach / Wallner / Varland / SWR / Moran and we could include Martin in looking to establish themselves. Maeda and Alcala looking to reestablish themselves after long injuries. There are 5 players I would count on. Arraez / Polanco / Vazquez / Gray and Duran. Every team has question marks but this thing could swing pretty dramatically one way or the other. There is no short-term answer with this many question marks. They will have to see if Miranda can handle 3B and determine if Kirilloff's wrist is repaired. Then, they have to give Larnach / Wallner / Varland / SWR / Martin and Moran an opportunity to stick over the course of the season. Of course, when will Lewis return and is he the SS going forward. 2024 was very going to be very uncertain with or without Correa. The good news is there is plenty of potential and it will be interesting to watch unfold.

We all know it's absolutely inevitability that teams in the bottom half of revenue will go through cycles. If you were to look, you would find that trading for prospects has been an enormous part of developing talent and building winning rosters. Prospects acquired by trade often contribute as much or more to WAR as drafted players. Cleveland's current team acquired Rosario, Gimenez, Straw, Naylor, Quantrill, Pilkington, Bieber, and Clause by trading established players and in doing so sustained their success rather than going through several years of poor teams. Some of those players were acquired by trading Kluber, Carrasco, and Clevinger who they also acquired as prospects. The premise this is not a pipeline baffles me. Sign me up regardless of what you want to call it.

What I meant is that that topic is very complex and we would need to do a great deal of research and gather a great deal of information to address it in an informed matter. What we can evaluate very accurately is the relative win records produced via the strategies these teams employ.

That argument is much more logical than we have too many LH bats. To be fair, we should consider other elements of his game as you have here. He takes good ABs and draws walks, great defense, positional flexibility, and upside. I don't really care for the signing but let's look a little deeper than he is LH, especially given his splits against LH pitching are quite good.

The "money ball" debate is interesting but that's another issue. At least I thought the issue was what moves promote the constructing of a good baseball team. We have had a few unpopular moves in the past few years. How did they pan out. Trading Donaldson last year had plenty of detractors. Some people were just against trading Donaldson in general. Some thought very little of Urshela. Perhaps the best example is Rosario. Some people are still complaining, and he has produced negative WAR since leaving and he is a mediocre defender. There were people here livid we would trade Escobar even though he was a free agent three months later. Obviously, we would not have Duran. Then, perhaps the most unpopular of all was Berrios. It's too early to conclude much but at the moment that's looking like a pretty good decision. Taylor Rodgers .... We may or may not get anything out of Paddack but we did not lose much either.

Including Kepler assumes they are keeping him, and their actions strongly suggest that's not happening. If Kirilloff is healthy, he is playing 1B. Wallner is unproven and starts in AAA. That leaves Larnach in Left, Gallo in Right, and Nick Gordon in his typical super utility role. How is this the atrocity it's being made out to be?

Should I conclude from your post you advocate making popular decisions instead of assembling a great team? Have you considered the possibility of other factors contributing to low attendance. If you were to look at how Cleveland and Oakland manage their rosters / acquisition, you will find very similar strategies. Those three teams have produced by far the most 90+ win seasons. Should they make decisions to please fans instead of following practices proven to be superior in building winning teams?

I saw this on MLB TV but I can't find an official announcement. It's might have been a rumor. All I could find was articles saying the Sox have made him available. Liam Hendricks Trade My apologies, I may have misinterpreted as I had this on in the background. We will have to see if this happens.