LA VIkes Fan

Good move, excellent one if Lopez is the guy we've seen this year going forward. Rocket arm who should really help the back of the bullpen. Even better, 2.5 years left of control. Not a rental. Povich may be a long term MLB starter, but he may not, and Cano looks like he's at best an average reliever. The 2 young guys are lottery tickets. I think a very fair trade for both teams. We get immediate late inning help during an open contention window. Sends a great message to the clubhouse that the FO believes in them and is getting some help NOW. Orioles get some immediate innings out of Cano and some possible real upside to help in their next contention window in 2024-25. Well done, FO, well done.

Agree that the Mariners gave up more but I also think Castillo is a much better pitcher than Montas. It's Sanchez to Sanchez tonight for the Twins.

When Aaron Sanchez pitches to Gary Sanchez is the battery called the Sanchi or the Sanchezes? Kind of like the dual Elvis impersonators - the Elvi!.

Doesn't matter if they did, the Yankees offered and traded better players. The 2 pitchers the As got are at or close to MLB ready - most if not all of our better prospects are in A+ ball or lower. We didn't get Montas because the Yankees made a better offer. Simple as that.

Well, I'm not sure that's a return the Twins can match for Montas. Our #5, #10, #20, 1nd #21 prospects are something like Canterino (good prospect, but hurt and may be destined for the bullpen), Bryan Medina (rookie leaguer), Alerick Soularie (23, A+ ball), and Marco Raya (19, A ball). Not 2 high minors ready to try the Show pitchers plus two farther out well regarded guys. Even if you try for better high minors guys at around the same level on the list you get Wallner (#8), Henriquez (#11), Strotman (#16), Steer (#7), Balazovic (#3, but hurt yet again), and Palacios (#26). These guys just aren't as good/projectible as the guys Oakland got from the Yankees. That in a nutshell is the rub. We just don't have many well regarded guys at the AAA or even AA level to trade, and NONE of them are pitchers. All of the pitching is either hurt or under performing. All of the "real" pitching prospects are at the A+ or lower levels or in the case of Balazovic or SWR, are hurt. Our best prospects are either in MLB and hurt or hopefully untouchable in trade like Miranda or Ryan. What we do have to trade is non-SS hitters like Steer, Wallner, CES, Martin, Urbina, etc. or "meh but could improve" MLB backups like Celestino and Gordon. And that type of player simply isn't worth as much as MLB ready or close to ready high upside pitching. We can't get guys like Castillo or Montas this year because we can't compete - we don't have the prospects to trade. Neither guy was worth Miranda or Lewis to me and Larnach and Kirilloff are both of questionable value right now, especially Kirilloff. I really hope we are trying to pry Snell or Lopez (either the Oriole or Marlin) loose. That's the pond in which we can fish with the bait we have.

I think you're probably right on Snell which is why I think we have a chance to get him. You're also probably right on Robertson. How about Festa and Cavaco instead of Strotman and Cavaco?

If yo don't mind me tagging along, here are two trade proposals to add (I'll useletters instead of numbers) - Proposal A - Trade with Padres Twins receive Blake Snell (3.3) or Mike Clevinger (0), Padres receive Keoni Caveco ( 2.4) and David Festa (1.9) Slight overpay by the Twins but I think you have to overpay to get a decent starter. Also gives the Padres a couple more prospects they can include package for Juan Soto. Proposal B - Trade With Cubs Twins receive David Robertson (2.5) and Drew Smyly (.2), Cubs receive Koeni Cavaco (2.4) and Drew Strotman (1.5). Also an overpay but the Twins will have to overpay for Robertson. Would love to get Stroman but a -17.4 value on BTV (assumedly due to his contract), it's hard to value him.

All very interesting. I particularly like proposal #2 and #4. Both Lopez from the Orioles and Rondon from the Giants would be great additions and the price isn't excessive. Proposal #1 would be okay for this year but I sense were giving away more than we're getting back and proposal #3 would be great except I don't think the Royals will trade with us. I can't say I know enough about German Marquez to really evaluate #5 but it might be worth a shot if we can't do anything else. The sad thing about this is we simply don't have the high end prospects to make a move for anybody better unless we trade Jose Miranda and I am totally against that. I think he is the long term #4 or #5 hitter on this team who is cost controlled for the next 6 years and you just don't trade that for even 1.5 years of a starting pitcher. All of our high-end prospects in the minors or hurt, particularly the pitchers, and frankly not that highly rated. The prospects that have "graduated" to the Twins are either in my mind untouchable (Miranda) or are in various injury stages. At this point, Kirilloff has little to no trade value since an acquiring team has no idea what they're getting with his recurring wrist issues. Larnach has value going forward but it's hard to trade a guy when he can't help you until September at the earliest and more likely next year. Not only that, we need him if Kirilloff doesn't work out. Lewis is untouchable and not available till next July. Steer and Wallner are nice prospects but aren't good enough to move the needle for a big time pitcher. Bottom line, we are out on Frankie Montas and probably out on Tyler Mahle because we simply don't hand the big time prospects to trade unless we trade Miranda and I am totally against that just to improve this year's team.

Well said. I'm cautiously optimistic that the Twins can stay in the Division race through the end of the season and I think they have a 50/50 chance of winning the division. That number is subject to adjustment Wednesday depending on the results at the Deadline - I'm assuming they get at least some pitching help. This beats the crap out of last year. That's the comparison - 2019 is ancient history with a different roster, different ball, and different necessary type of play. Nelson Cruz carried us in 2019 with help from principally Miguel Sano, among others. Last I looked Nelson Cruz couldn't carry his own jock (Father time remains undefeated) and Sano is out. Take that 2019 roster and we finish 4th. Hey guys, the Twins are playing meaningful games in August and it looks like we'll be playing meaning games in September. Let's enjoy the ride while we can, before the Vikings tease again before they collapse and crush all of our souls.

Polanco is arguably our most consistent, "best" hitter this year. Good in the clutch, good RBI man, good run producer. He also seems to have found a solid defensive home at 2B. His abilities also make us able to have guys like Steer as a trade chip. Frankly, I would put him in the 4 hole in the order and just leave him there for the rest of the season. He is clearly part of the core for the next 2-3 years. We're lucky to have him, and on a team friendly contract to boot.

I like the ideas, not thrilled with Syndergaard. Substitute Blake Snell even if we need to add a non top 30 prospect and I’m in.

Agreed. We aren’t trading Correa. We can’t get much for him because of his contract and it sends the worst possible message to the team. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll get much at the deadline since we don’t have much to trade. Wallner and Steer aren’t enough for high end pitching and we don’t have much MiLB pitching to interest anyone. Maybe Larnach gets us something but I think he’s pretty much the only good trade chip we have unless we trade Kirilloff. I don’t think Miranda is going anywhere.

Correct. Miranda is 23, he can improve defensively. More importantly, so far he has shown that he can hit - .280/.330/.462 in the last 30 games and better than that after his first 60 ABs or so. Guys who hit like this with power don't grow on trees. Plus, this his his first go around, chances are this will improve. AND we have 5-6 years of control. He stays unless we get a pitcher of similar quality with 4-5 years of control. Same for Kirilloff - .306/.362/.459 over the last 30 games. Those 2 are the middle of the order for 2023 and beyond. I'd trade Larnach (but only for top end starter), and I would part with Celestino, Steer, and Wallner in the right trades. I'd even think about trading Ober or Winder but not both. For me, Miranda and Kirilloff are untouchable unless the return is a quality starting pitcher with multiple years of control and that ain't happening.

I agree with t he sentiment but the lineup changes ever day because we are at least one middle of the order bat short. Love to see us trade for Josh Bell, put him at DH/1B and the 4 hole and run out this lineup - Arraez, Correa, Buxton, Bell, Polanco, Kiriloff, Miranda/Urshela, Kepler, Sanchez/Hamilton.

Unless they work out a deal before Sunday, which seems unlikely, we should expect that Sano will be back with the big club and probably Garlick optioned to St. Paul. I just don't see another way to do this given our need for Celestino to stay on the Twins to play centerfield when Buxton is the DH. If I'm right and Sano is coming up, play him. It has advantages both in deciding what to do with him for the rest of the season and auditioning him as a throw in trade piece on other deals. He can DH or play 1B 5 days a week for 2 weeks and we can see if he goes on one of those 2nd half tears and helps us or is a DFA candidate on July 31.

i agree except I would be willing to deal Ober in a deal for a starting pitcher. To me, the other 3 would only go in a spectacular deal for us (not happening).

I disagree with the other posters. I think this is a potentially high upside, low downside deal once Mahle gets away from that bandbox in Cincinnati. As I've said in other posts, we need to get past our attachment to prospects and be willing to trade quality to get quality. Particularly, we need to be willing to trade bat first corner OFs and non-SS IFs. That's where our surplus is. Mahle is the guy to get if we can't get Castillo or the price for Montas is too high. I worry less about shoulder issues with a clean MRI since frankly every pitcher in MLB has shoulder issues at some point. Elbow issues are what concerns me. Having said that, still think the offer is a little rich. I'm fine with Wallner and Martin, but I would like to keep SWR. How about substituting Raya or Varland for SWR? Or maybe Canterino? They are a little farther away from MLB so they fit the Reds' timeline better. Another thought is a straight up trade of Larnach for Mahle? That is an overpay by the Twins, but not if we can get a 2-3 year deal with Mahle as part of the trade or if the Reds throw in a non-40 pitching prospect or a catching prospect like Nelson. In each scenario, I think the Twins are trading form surplus for need. Bottom line, I think Mahle is a real target and a realistic one to boot. I hoe we get him if we don't get Castillo or Montas.

i agree that this is a complicated decision but strongly disagree with the premise that we don't have the prospect capital to get deals done. We can get a top end starter like Montas or Castillo - we just need to be willing to trade a Larnch or Miranda type PLUS (1) Ober or (2) a Steer, Wallner, and a lower level but high upside guy like CES, Julien, Sabato, Varland, etc. As for me, I would like to keep Miranda but wouldn't be opposed to moving him as the headliner package for a great return (Montas or Castillo plus a solid reliever with some remaining control). We can do the deals, we just have to be willing to give up quality. I am very open to dealing Larnach as a headline piece in a trade for starting pitching. Kirilloff is our LF for the foreseeable future because Arraez is the 1B, followed by Miranda. We all need to accept that reality. So unless we are going to trade Kepler - who won't get us much of a return - there simply is no room at the inn for Larnach to play every day. Same for Steer and Wallner. They play positions - corner OF, 2B and 3B - where we have players in place who are younger, cost controlled, and aren't going anywhere. You trade from surplus for need. Our need? Pitching, pitching and more pitching. Our surplus? Corner OF bats and guys who have good to high ceilings and can play 2B or 3B. That's who you trade. Also, let's not forget why you develop quality depth in the minors. The first and most obvious reason is to feed the MLB club, but it is not the only reason. The other reason is so you have players to trade for established MLB players on other teams in those years were you believe you have a chance to complete. I think this is one of those years and am open to using our prospect capital to improve the big club, particularly with respect to players who have more than just the rest of 2022 to offer. We all need to be willing to "let go" of some of the prospects we know and love so that we can trade them for established players who can help us right now. I personally think any Twins prospect recently graduating to MLB or still in the minors should be available except for Lewis, Ryan, Kirilloff, Duran and WInder, except that I would only move Miranda for an established MLB starter with at least 1.5 years of control and a chance of re-signing with the team. Other than that, everyone else should be available, That's the attitude I think the FO should have going into this trade deadline. I think if they have that attitude, there is no reason that this team can't put competitive trade packages together to try to get the three things that would really help (1) a quality starting pitcher like Montas or Castillo, (2) at least one quality rental reliever like Robertson, Bard, Okert, or Lopez (I would also use acquisition #1 to kick Chris Archer into the bullpen to add a second quality bullpen piece), and (3) a short-term rental bat you might have a chance of re-signing like Josh Bell. That's what we need to do and I don't think we need to "deplete the farm" to get it done.

Agreed. We can get a top end starter like Montas or Castillo - we just need to be willing to trade a Larnch or Miranda type PLUS (1) Ober or (2) a Steer, Wallner, and a lower level but with high upside guy like CES, Julien, Sabato, Varland, etc. As for me, I would like to keep Miranda but wouldn't be opposed to moving him for a great return (Montas plus a solid reliever). I am very open to dealing Larnach as a headline piece in a trade for starting pitching. Kirilloff is our LF for the foreseeable future because Arraez is the 1B, followed by Miranda. We all need to accept that reality. So unless we are going to trade Kepler - who won't get us much of a return - there simply is no room at the inn for Larnach to play every day. Same for Steer and Wallner. They play positions - corner OF, 2B and 3B - where we have players in place who are younger, cost controlled, and aren't going anywhere. You trade from surplus for need. Our need? Pitching, pitching and more pitching. Our surplus? Corner OF bats and guys who have good to high ceilings and can play 2B or 3B. That's who you trade. Also, let's not forget why you develop quality depth in the minors. The first and most obvious reason is to feed the MLB club, but it is not the only reason. The other reason is so you have players to trade for established MLB players on other teams in those years were you believe you have a chance to complete. I think this is one of those years and am open to using our prospect capital to improve the big club, particularly with respect to players who have more than just the rest of 2022 to offer. We all need to be willing to "let go" of some of the prospects we know and love so that we can trade them for established players who can help us right now. I personally think any Twins prospect recently graduating to MLB or still in the minors should be available except for Ryan, Kirilloff, Duran and WInder, except that I would only move Miranda for an established MLB starter with at least 1.5 years of control and a chance of re-signing with the team. Other than that, everyone else should be available, That's the attitude I think the FO should have going into this trade deadline.

Larnach and Canterino for Montas and AJ Puk (or Lou Trevino). Larnach and Canterino or Steer for Castillo. Enlow for Robertson or Bard. Archer to bullpen in a late inning role (adjust his contract incentives). Sands, Strotman, and a lower level non-40 man guy (Julien?) for Josh Bell and Tanner Rainey from the Nationals. Substitute Austin Martin for Larnach in above scenarios if that works; don't be afraid to substitute Martin AND Balazovic for Larnach if they would accept that. A package of Martin, Balazovic and Canterino is probably not enough for either starter.

I think Sano is definitely coming back unless they include him a package trade before Sunday. Seems unlikely. The big question is can Gordon play CF well enough to send down Celestino? If not, Garlick goes down. Sending out a pitcher isn't going to happen because we need 13 pitchers with this starting staff and bullpen. Sano is not replacing a pitcher. Personally, I think sending down Garlick is the right move. He looks like he "mashes lefties" when you look at his overall stats, but he hasn't hit much lately and we just aren't seeing a lot of LH starters. He can't right RH pitching at all. Add in the fact that he isn't much of a defensive OF and his value is really limited. Celestino isn't a great hitter either but he does add value on defense and provides the coverage we need when Buxton has to sit. Watch, an injury or trade will all of this speculation irrelevant.

Agree that at least Larnach would be part of the ask for Castillo PLUS something else. I went on baseball trade values and came away wiht Larnach plus Canterino for Castillo. By the way that same package also netted Montas plus AJ Puk from Oakland. I would do either of those two deals. What about you guys?

I I think you're right but aren't we missing one possible trade guy - Trevor Larnach? Good defensive OF, strong bat, multiple years of control left. Yeah he's now hurt but for Oakland and CIncy the year is toast any way. I agree that getting a top end pitcher will cost us a premium prospect plus one or more more solid ones. My view is that the premium prospects to consider trading, in order, are Larnach because he's duplicative of Kirilloff in LF now that Arraez is the 1B (and I hope they trade for Josh Bell and then keep him, plus we have Sano to deal with), and . . . maybe Ober or Winder but not both? No way I would trade Kirilloff, Miranda, Ryan, Jeffers, or Duran. Celestino and Steer are nice prospects but secondary pieces in a deal for a good starter, not primary ones. They might be good enough to get us a strong bullpen piece. I would make a deal for a strong starter IF Larnach would be the headline prospect or maybe if it were Winder or Ober but not 2 of those 3. It will be interesting to see what actually happens.

Lopez looks like a tough target to me - high cost, high risk. If you believe Baseball Trade Values, Larnach and Canterino gets you Montas and Puk from Oakland or Castillo from Cincinnati and we keep Steer. Larnach and Steer for Lopez is also about right. It's also much more likely that we can get a "fair" deal wiht Oakland or Cincinnati since they are likely to trade those starters with 1.5 year of control than from Miami trading a high end starter with multiple years of control. Plus, Montas and Castillo are both better than Lopez although controllable for less time. Given those assumed choices, I would much rather make a deal for Montas or Castillo. I think Lopez is too risky and out of our price range.

Honest analysis. I agree that we need one impact starter, 2 bullpen pieces, and a hitter. This Lineup needs another run producer in the number 4 spot in the order and it ain't Max Kepler and I don't think it will be Miguel Sano. Where I disagree is the idea that the choice is either to stand pat or "gut the farm" to improve the team for this year and potentially next. We have a lot of prospect capital. The value of prospect capital isn't simply to graduate people to the MLB roster over time, it's equally as important to have that so we can trade it when we need to, not just to keep it forever. More than half of these guys will never amount to much on a MLB roster. We need to stop obsessing about keeping every single prospect who might have one flash in the pan year or even a solid MLB career, and use that prospect capital to improve the MLB club. That's 1 of the things it's for. Here's my dream of how you do this to improve the team and I don't think it means that we are "gutting the farm" (all trades vetted through Baseball Trade Values): 1) Laranch and Canterino to the As for Montas and Puk . . . or Larnach, Canterino, and an A Ball guy to the Reds for Castillo. Starting pitching added, maybe with a left handed reliever. 2) Sands, Strotman and Julien to Nationals for Josh Bell and Tanner Rainey. Throw in Sano and enough cash to pay his salary so he doesn't add or subtract from value. The Nationals get pitching prospects, and outfield prospect, and a replacement 1B with maybe some upside. Gets us a #4 hitter and solid 7th inning type reliever. 3. Here's the tough one - Enlow for Daniel Robertson of the Cubs or Enlow and Festa for Jorge Lopez of the Orioles. Closer added. 4. Archer goes into the bullpen as a late inning reliever/closer (with this contract adjusted so he can reach incentives), and Winder goes into the bullpen as a long reliever/6th starter. Pagan is thrown into some trade, maybe to the Cubs or A's, demoted with his consent to work on things in St. Paul, or released. Thoughts? I don't see this as gutting the farm in any way. Sure, losing these guys will hurt and maybe this is not enough to get the people I mentioned, although Baseball Trade Value seems to think it is, but to me this is one of the reasons you build up your farm system - To trade prospects for established MLB players when doing so have the chance to put you in a contending position. I think that's where we are. I would make each of these deals if available.