LA VIkes Fan

I don't see them trading Correa, and I don't see Archer or Bundy getting any sort of return. Bundy has actually been our second most reliable starter behind Ryan, and I think he leads the team in innings. I'd leave him in the #5 spot. I think Archer can be one of the late inning relievers we need, We need to adjust his contract incentives but I think he could thrive as a late inning/closer guy. I do agree that it's time to trade some prospect depth for MLB guys. I would basically be open to trading anyone except Kirilloff, Miranda, Winder, and maybe Canterino although I would only trade Canterino or Larnach for a starter. Here's my dream scenario (all trades validated through Baseball Trade Simulator): 1) Laranch and Canterino for Montas and Puk . . . or Larnach, Canterino, and an A Ball guy for Castillo. Starting pitching added, maybe with a left handed reliever. 2) Sands, Strotman and Julien to Nationals for Josh Bell and Tanner Rainey. Throw in Sano and enough cash to pay his salary so he doesn't add or subtract from value. Gets us a #4 hitter and solid 7th inning type reliever. 3. Here's the tough one - Enlow for Daniel Robertson of the Cubs or Enlow and Festa for Jorge Lopez of the Orioles. Closer added. Thoughts?

I think they can right the starting pitching staff short term with a trade for Castillo (my choice) or Montas. That moves Gray to #3, Ober #4, and Bundy #5. Winder and Archer go into the bullpen to strengthen that and they trade for Robertson, Bard or Lopez (hopeful shedding Pagan in the process). I know that costs a lot in prospect capital but isn't that one of the things that prospect capital is for? We have a relatively young team now so if we can make these moves without giving up Kirilloff, Miranda, or Winder, this would really improve things without taking on a lot of money so we can afford Correa again next year IF he wants to stay. I'd also be interested in Josh Bell if he isn't too expensive in prospect capital. Maybe we can even get the Nats to take Sano as part of a package with a solid prospect. He replaces Bell at 1B there and reunites with Cruz. If money is the issue, we send the $4m to pay for him for the rest of this year. Bell drops in the #4 position in the lineup after Arraez, Correa, and Buxton, with Polanco 5, Kirilloff 6, Miranda/Urshela 7, Kepler 8 and Sanchez 9.

Not a bad pitcher, like the years of control. I just think that Celestino is a big overpay and Gordon probably is too. Besides, Gordon may need to be our starting SS next year until Lewis is ready to come back. I would be willing to consider Wallner since he is still an unproven prospect who may or may not ever amount to anything. Still feels like an over pay though. Interestingly, baseball trade values lists Okert at 2.8, Celestino at 2.1, Gordon at 1.1 and Wallner at 3. I don't think those are updated from the beginning of the season though and all 3 would be up from that time given their performance this season. My "overpay" comment may be more based on perceived value to the Twins than overall. W need Celestino or at least Gordon to play CF on all the days Buxton can't and we need Gordon for next year to play SS for awhile if Correa opts out. I'm not willing to put Palacios bat in the lineup every day or move Polanco back to SS. Bottom line, Like this guy as a possibility but we need to trade from the MiLB depth for him, not the MLB roster.

I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I'm actually fine with trading any of the names mentioned in your post although I would like to keep Steer if we can unless he's the top end of a package for a starter. What I don't want to do is trade any of the graduated prospects - Miranda, Kirilloff, Larnach, Celestino - or one of our 10-15 best prospects for a series of rental or even controllable relievers or a mid level starter. I would give up quality to trade for Castillo and then it would have to be Larnach or Steer. I don't want to blow up the progress made this year in lengthening the lineup in the hope that a Montas plus high end reliever outcome would get us a few more wins. This team has made real progress this year. I know we won't have Correa next year, but I still think the real contention window opens next year. I actually think we're on the same page. That said, speculation is always fun. I would like to trade with the Cubs for Robertson and Givens, or with the Orioles for Lopez and Tate or Perez. I'd be willing to give up one prospect in the 10-20 range (Enlow, Henriguez, Sands, Festa) plus someone farther down the list and an A ball guy or two. The Orioles need a 3B so maybe they would take just Urshela and a 10-20 prospect and throw in a 20-30 prospect of their own. The only other trade I would consider would be for someone like Luis Castillo or Pablo Lopez and then I would be willing to part with a top 10 non-pitching prospect (Steer, Rodriguez, Wallner), plus 2 others outside the top 20. Let's run with the lineup as is, add RP unless we can get an acceptable deal for Castillo or P Lopez, and play it out.

Winning 85-90 games feels about right for this level of talent. We're short in all 3 areas - we need 1 starter who can pitch #1 or #2, 2-3 bullpen pieces that can pitch in late inning, high leverage situations, and 1-2 middle of the order bats. The only one we can possibly fill in internally is the bats if we can get middle of the order performance from 2 of Kirilloff, Miranda, and dare I speak it our loud, Sano. There may be starter help on the way in Winder and others, but not for this year. There's no way we can trade for all that we need without gutting the farm and/or the young players on the MLB roster. So what do we do? I vote for trading for a reliever or two as long as we trade either prospects 15 or lower or a guy like Urshela. Otherwise, let's run it out. This team is being built for next year. let's not sacrifice that for the fools gold of this year. 88 wins might get us the division,. some playoff experience and help position us for next year. I'd be happy with that.

I like the idea of trading Urshela if we can get a quality bullpen piece and it looks like the Orioles are really the only shot at that given their short term need. The obvious issue us that Urshela is only controllable for this year and next and that may be too short for the Orioles contention time line. Maybe if he were part of a package that included a prospect swap or maybe 2 relievers with the Twins giving up a starting pitching prospect like Sands could work. I would want Lopez to be the reliever that comes to the Twins, although he might be a one year wonder. The real reason to trade him is to clear 3B for Miranda, get the logjam off of 1B so Kiriloff can play there more and have room for Larnach to play LF when he returns in about a month(?). we also have to face the fact that Sano is coming back and will need a place to play other than just DH, Trading Urshela would help break up a potential logjam but hurts depth if there's an injury and makes us a little reliant on Sano performing. All of that is worth it for a reliever like Lopez in Baltimore, if this year is real, not so much for a mediocre middle reliever.

Fun way to end the game. I go back to what I said a couple of weeks ago, let's have Miranda and Kirilloff in the lineup (almost) every day through July and see what they do. On offense, all this team really needed is 1 or 2 more middle of the order bats to go with Arraez, Correa. Buxton and Polanco at the front of the order. Kepler is not that bat; he would be much better continuing his fine defensive work and hitting 7th. Same for Urshela and the catchers are what they are, average offensive players for catchers which is to say, not great. I'm really hopeful after the last 2 weeks that Miranda and Kirilloff can be those 2 middle of the order bats. With Larnach and Sano potentially coming back, maybe 1 of then can even add another bat. That way we don't need any hitting help at the deadline and can focus whatever resources we want to use in the trade market to what we really need, late inning relief pitching and a quality starter in that order. I would love to see the "standard" lineup for the rest of this month and into August look something like this: Arraez 1B/DH Correa SS Polanco 2B Buxton CF/DH Kirilloff LF Miranda 1B/3B/DH Kepler RF Urshela/Gordon/Sano/Garlick, etc. - Fill in/DH Jeffers/Sanchez C

Interesting. Who are they going to drop to get him a roster spot?

Makes sense. Winder won't pitch again before the ASG and this lengthens the bullpen. May also explain why Ryan was lifted after 75 pitches today; he may start Sunday on a 5 inning/75 pitch leash for the traditional "all hands on deck" last game before the AS break.

I would leave Winder in the rotation for the rest of the season, recognizing that he is probably going to need at least one IL "rest" stint to keep his innings closer to 100-120 for the season. We are going to need him as a starter next year and I think that's the role in which he has thrived. I think the move when Ober is ready to rejoin the rotation after the All Star break is to move Smeltzer to the bullpen. I also think that Archer could be a real weapon in the bullpen if he would be willing to give that role a shot as a late inning guy. I don't know that he is ready for that psychologically though. If he is, when Ober is ready to come back I would put Smeltzer in the bullpen as a long man (along with Cotton), and put Archer in the late inning mix. I would then upgrade with at least one trade for quality seventh or eighth inning guy, essentially make Duran the closer, and fill on from there. You would have two multi-inning guys in Smeltzer and Cotton, one left-handed, one right-handed, and a late inning mix of Archer, Duran, someone we trade for, and Duffy. Smeltzer fills the 6th starter injury fill in role. That means that one or two of Pagan, Megill. Theilbar and Moran can't be part of the bullpen, two if you trade for someone. I think the right answer is that you try to get someone to take Pagan as part of a trade package, keep Theilbar as a lefty, and Megill and Moran are part of the St. Paul shuttle as they have options. This assumes we trade for at least one quality reliever. If we don't, both stay. If Archer isn't willing to go to the bullpen or the team really wants to keep him as a starter for future, that I would move Bundy to that role. I also think he could do well as a late inning reliever, again if he's willing to do it.

Agreed. I know Pagan has more than five years in the majors so he can’t be sent out without his consent even though he has one option remaining. Still, is there any chance he would be willing to go down to AAA now to try to figure out his issues? Frankly, at this point, either Minaya or Cano would provide more value in the middle innings. And does anyone you know when Alcalá will be back? We all agree that this bullpen needs a minimum of two more arms and it will be difficult to get much now without a significant overpay. At least if we can get him down there working on things for the next month while we have someone a little more reliable we can try to maintain for the next month. There isn’t anyone likely riding to the rescue for at least 30 days.

Famous last words, but I like this lineup with Miranda and Kirilloff in the 5 and 6 slots ahead of Sanchez and Urshela. I'd like to keep it that way. What I'd really like to see is Arraez, Buxton, Correa and Polanco in slots 1-4 in some order, Kirilloff 5, Miranda 6, Kepler 7, with the catcher and Urshela or Celestino 8 and 9. Let's give Miranda and Kirilloff a 3-4 week run in the middle of the order and see if they produce.

Do you think that Alcala or Maeda can be one or two of those pieces? It's hard for me to see the team trading enough of the prospects to get more than one high leverage arm. I think we need at least 2 more. My thought is trade for Daniel Robertson of the Cubs first. He's got playoff experience and can close well, and he's 37 so maybe one solid to good prospect can get the job done. Baseball Trade Values says either Sands or Encarnacion Strand gets you Robertson PLUS either Martin, Givens or Brandon Hughes with the Twins still on a slight overpay. Same for AJ Puk and Trevino, although they have Trevino as a negative trade value this year. One of Sands or Encarnacion Strand also gets you Bard from the Rockies. That's paying a lot but getting us what we need. I have another bizarre thought. Why not put Bundy in the bullpen and Winder as the 5th starter. Good bullpen work is either high octane controllable stuff like Duran or an ability to pitch emotional control and a high leverage mentality. Bundy has to know that he's the odd man out of the rotation at some point and probably won't get starter money next year. Put him in the bullpen and give him high leverage innings. He's been there before and may have the high leverage mentality and emotional control that appears to be lacking in Pagan and Duffy. Why not? It's worth a shot.

Also, if we believe what we read it sounds like Wes Johnson had a lot of input in bullpen usage decisions. I'm curious if he was smitten with Pagan or if it's really even Baldelli. We'll find out when Johnson leaves. This may be too much ot hope for, but does Pagan have any options left? If not, isn't it possible that he is injured, can go on the Il and then do a rehab assignment? He needs to experiment with his new grip at AAAA for awhile.

If we believe what we read, Wes Johnson has been making a lot of the bullpen decisions rather than Baldelli. Maybe this late inning love affair with Pagan will go when he goes. In any event, having him experiment with a new grip in the Majors is looking like a mistake. Does Pagan have any options let? If not, maybe an IL stint with a rehab assignment is in order. Let him close at AAA and see if he can get his mojo back. As for a replacement, what about either Winder, Sands or Ober (when he returns) as a late inning relief pitcher? Smeltzer belongs in the rotation with his performance to date. , Bundy doesn't have late inning reliever stuff, same for Archer. Maybe one of the young starters can help out.

The problem is if not Pagan, then who? It was supposed to be Duffy or Alcala but Duffy melted down and Alcala got hurt. I wonder if Tyler Thornburg can fill that role? Cotton, Thielbar, probably not on a consistent basis. We need an 8th inning guy in the worst way.

I now have "How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria" from the Sound of Music going through my head and it won't stop. I hate you.

The idea of Enforcing the contract through a decree of specific performance is an interesting one and really depends on state law. In California where I live, you cannot get a degree of specific performance requiring an employee to continue to perform services, but you can prevent him from performing services for a competitor if there are trade secrets involved. I don’t know Minnesota law but I’m fairly confident that you cannot get a decree of specific performance requiring the employee to perform services since we have abolished slavery in this country. Having said that, you may be able to get an order that prohibits him from working for a competitor or perhaps even from working in the same industry. I could definitely see getting an order preventing him from using any proprietary information or trade secrets that are owned by the team. Hard to see how there would be any in this case though. More likely though, the most the Twins could do was sue him for any damages they suffer and it’s hard to see how those could be quantified in Court. Interesting stuff on the legal side.

I live in LA. I will pay for the shipping if you will send frozen walleye Filets to me. The Twins lineup was posted six minutes ago and here it is: 2B Luis Arraez CF Byron Buxton SS Carlos Correa RF Max Kepler 1B Alex Kirilloff 3B Gio Urshela DH Gary Sanchez LF Nick Gordon C Ryan Jeffers Interesting lineup and looks like Polanco is not ready yet. Go twins!

Guys, I think we gotten a little bit far afield. This is actually pretty simple. An important employee of the team got a job offer from another employer who more than doubled his salary and provided him an opportunity for different lifestyle. When the Twins offered to match the salary, which apparently they did, the employee still decided to go. The opportunity was now, not six months from now, not 3 months from now, not when it was convenient for his current employer, now. Had Johnson not decided to take the LSU job they would have offered it to someone else because they needed somebody for the recruiting season that starts in a week or two. It also make sense based upon the timing when their pitching coach was hired way that this all happened over the last couple of weeks at most. That's what happened. I run a law firm and we have lost people in the middle of cases, projects, etc. because they had other opportunities that they preferred. This is a fact of life in business and a possibility that is always out there. The Twins are doing exactly the right thing, you make an effort to retain the employee and if he or she decides to go, you wish them well and don't burn any bridges. This is not a betrayal by Wes Johnson. This is a common practice in the business world of an employee getting what he or she thought was a better opportunity. The reverse is also true, the Twins always had the right to fire Johnson at any time without his consent. It's just that simple. The venom against Johnson is misplaced as is the thought that the Twins were somehow too cheap to keep him.

The defensive ratings all make sense to me, except maybe for Correa who I thought was better. Urshela is average to below average defensively - he makes some spectacular plays but has limited range and boots some easy ones. Arraez isn't much of a middle infielder but we knew that already. 1B/DH is the perfect place for him. I think there are 2 changes that make the Twins better on defense AND on offense. The first is easy - Polanco comes back to play 2B and Arraez becomes a 1B/DH. By the way, has anyone else noticed that Arraez' hitting has dropped off since he went back to 2B and put more stress on his knee? Correlation is not always causation but the 2 may be related. The second is to play Miranda at 3B every day. His defense won't be much worse than Urshela and may be better and there's a good chance he's a better hitter. I know this puts Kirilloff in LF which is not ideal but I think that's a small price to upgrade 3b and get Arraez a better place to play. It also gets Kirilloff and Miranda in the batting order at 5 and 6 and we can stop with the fantasy that either Kepler, Sanchez, or Urshela is a middle of the order hitter. My lineup? Arraez 1B/DH, Polanco 2B, Correa SS, Buxton CF/DH (yes, I switched Polanco and Buxton), Kirilloff LF, Garlick/Urshela DH, Miranda 3B, Kepler RF, Jeffers/Sanchez C. Celestino and Gordon hit 9 when they play and everyone moves up one up to the spot of the guy who is sitting out. Trade Urshela as part of a package for relief pitching and bring up Palacios or Steer to be the primary IF backup. Urshela fills that job for now.

I frankly hope Cave gets his chance for redemption with another team. We've seen what he can and can't do and he's 29, 30 in December. It ain't uphill from here. Let him go be the 4th/5th OF on a below average team where he belongs. Larnach to the Il is certainly interesting. Contreras now goes when Polanco comes back and another hard decision is taken care of by an injury. When Polanco comes back he goes to 2B, Arraez to 1B, and Kirilloff to LF every day. Laranch gets 20 days (?) after recovery to rehab in St. Paul and maybe learn how to hit a slider. Kirilloff plays every day in LF, Celestino is the 4th OF, and Gordon is the 5th OF/backup SS/Super Utility. Miranda is the backup 3B/RH hitting 1B/DH. Personally, I'd rather see them give Miranda a month run as the everyday 3B since Urshela is a league average hitter and below average fielder so why not try for an upgrade? That's for another thread.

Well, that explains the losing streak. Leadoff double, Larnach can't get him over, Miranda actually does his job (if Larnach had done his), and Gordon either tries to hit a home run or can't hit high velocity. Hard to blame that on the manager; the players didn't perform. My prediction - Larnach back to AAA when Polanco is ready to come off of IL, unless Buxton goes on. I think we've seen enough to know that after a nice start this year he is back to being overmatched by MLB pitching.

Too early to say we're in free fall but not too early to see how this team is short a few key components. We need at least one more consistent starting pitcher, 2-3 solid or better relief pitchers and at least one more solid middle of the order type bat. The good news is that we may get the starter when Ober and Winder come back, and one of them could be one of the relief pitchers we need. Maeda and Alcala could be 2 more later in the season, but it's hard to know when or rely on them. We need to trade for at least one more or find them in the minors. Kirilloff and/or Miranda could be that middle of the order bat; Larnach seems less likely. Probably not something we have to get in a trade. I think the reality is that this team as presently constructed is an 80-87 win group. Could compete for a playoff spot or even the division but not much more than that. The old saw is that you play the first 1/3 of the season to see what you have, make changes in the second 1/3 to fill your holes, and play out the last 1/3 to see how you finish. We're in that second 1/3 and we need to make some changes. I hope that the FO and Rocco are up to the task because it may/will mean losing some good guys for have served the team well (Duffy, Theilbar, Gordon), trading some prospects we'd rather keep, and playing or DHing young guys over vets to see if we can upgrade the offense (Miranda and Kirilloff every day, less at bats for Urshela, Kepler and Sanchez). Should be interesting top see if they are up to the task.

You may be right, but that is the kind of thing that comes with experience. The good hitters learn that on the 50/50 balls, or even the 40/60 balls, with two strikes you just flip it foul if you can't drive it. Kirilloff needs those at bats to start making that adjustment. I think he needs to be getting 4 to 5 plate appearances per game between now and the All-Star break. He can play LF, 1B, or even DH. Of all the "young guys" on the team, he looks like he has the best chance to be that elusive number 5 hitter we so desperately need to try to get ourselves some offensive consistency.