TwinsDr2021

It has to be Correa, Buxton and Lopez, followed closely by Gray. Because if it isn't there is a good chance something has gone wrong with another season. Those 4 this front office gave up a lot to get (money and players)

Why are people comparing Duran to Santana? Santana was a 21 year old rule 5 guy that took 4 full years to move fully into the rotation. Duran is 25 (24 last year) coming off of an injury plagued 21 and no pitching in 20. And lets not forget not a great minor league starter (Either was Santana for that matter). If you give Duran 30 this year he going to average 4 innings per starter, because there is no chance they jump his innings from 83 to 150.

Trading a 27 year old pitcher (who I am not the biggest fan of) that put up better numbers in an injury shortened season then a 33 year old May basically ever has (minus 2019, which was 4 season ago) is the sign of a franchise that hasn't a clue. Trading Canterino for another relief pitcher would be a mistake IMO but wouldn't be the end of the world, but pitchers like Ober can't always be found or every team would be loaded with guys like him and they aren't, the Twins have how many of him? 2 maybe if you include Winder? Now David Bednar for those two....... As for prospects of course they are overvalue, I have been saying that for decades, but you don't trade prospects for middling relief pitchers (unless it is the deadline) you trade them for solid major league players.

why, why, why would you do this, currently May has a negative trade value, less than Pagan. This would be a terrible trade for the Twins. There is a decent chance that both Ober and Canterino will be better this year than May.

I guess I am missing your point, some of the pitchers you mentioned were limited do to injuries and/or building up their arm, the others were limited because of the lack of time they spent in the minors. Which I am not sure what has to do with Duran, his innings were limited because of injuries and at times just not being very good. In the majors he was switched to the bullpen and things clicked, Can/should he switched back is the question, and IMO if they want to try him as a starter they need to build his innings up, which I would do by leaving him in the pen but letting him be more of a fireman, sometimes an inning, sometimes two and sometimes three and he can do that next year they could put him in the rotation, If they just put him there this year he would be limited to around 20/25 starts at 5 innings a start and probably early in the year more like 3 or 4 innings starts, that seems like a bad way to use him, IMO.

You missed my points. #1 he was never close to being great in the minors as a starter. #2 he needs to be stretched out and that takes time they are not going to let him jump from 67.66 to 150+ innings, they aren't. Then you comparing him to Verlander, Cole, and Nola is absolutely crazy talk, when you pulled there minor league numbers, you left out the fact that Verlander didn't even spend a whole season in the minors and pitched more innings than Duran has. How about Cole 130 total in 11 (College), 132 in 12 (minors) and in 13 68 (minors) then 117.33 in the majors. Nola 100 in 12(College), In 13 126 in college, in 14 116.33 in college and 55.33 in the minors, the next year 109.33 in the minors and another 77.66 in the majors? As for Winder, Ober, Paddack using them to compare anybody doesn't win a discussion unless you are trying to convince somebody about injury prone.

Was it is his 5.06 ERA in AAA last year as a starter with 13 walks in 16 innings that sways you to him being a starter? Only once in his minor league career did he have an ERA below 3.25 and that was in 6 starts in A ball back in 2018. He has never pitched more than 115 innings in a season. So if the Twins wanted to make him a starter this year maybe his innings jump from 83 2/3 to 130ish? that means 25, 5 innings starts, yea. I would much rather they stretch him out to 100/110 innings this year using him as a fireman type role and if that works maybe next year give him a spot in the rotation.

Are you expecting a 29 year old FA pitcher coming off of four years with a WAR of 2.8 or more to settle for a Paddock type deal? Lets be real if he pitches the next two years similiar or better than the last two he will be looking and getting Berrios, Gausman, Ray type money not some rinky dink 4 million dollars a year, maybe if he gets injured you could be looking at a one year deal worth north of 10 million.

💯, zero chance I pay anything additional outside of my hulu and netflix to watch baseball. Wouldn't cancel hulu over a $3 monthly increase to watch the Twins. To me the biggest problem is it is has been a few years that streamers haven't seen the Twins and we/I have figured other ways to get my twins fix. Sent a quick email to my fantasy baseball league (12 players, between ages 38-70) and asked what they would be willing to pay a month to watch the Twins if they can't now, 9 of 12 stream and the answers were between $0 and $7 a month, and only 2 of the 9 said they pay something outside of their Hulu or youtube.

Cron and Schoop both had two of their worst years in 2019 based on WAR, also is the Twins mission having a solid defensive team, they seem to be failing on that one. Is this front office trying to build a civilization or a baseball team to win a playoff game? You are correct there are a large chunk of fans that have waited their whole entire life time for a playoff win.

I also wish him the best and won't really be missed, but lets not forget he had 6 quality starts in his 12 starts. Gray had 9 in 24, and Ryan 11 in 27, so average at best might not be accurate (he only gave up 3 or more runs in 4 times last year). He is never going to be a star in the league but I am not sure you could ask for a better AAAA starter.

I hate to be that guy, but remind me again who (this FO) has developed? Jeffers? Miranda, Polanco, Arraez, AK, Gordon, and Buxton were carry overs (as was Garver) If you give this FO for developing previous regime top prospects than don't have also have to say what happened to all the other top prospects? There are a few maybes Larnach, Lewis, Wallner but as of now I would say they actually have done a way better job of getting guys they acquired to the majors as pitchers more than bats. Ryan, Ober, Winder, Varland, SWR, Duran, Alcala, Sands

Then us Twins fans could be in for another long year, and this FO's jobs could be in trouble. IMO

He turns 24 in a month and if he still has things to work on in the minors, he isn't the answer to any question other than as a AAAA type of player.

Nick Gordon turned 27 in October, so the he's young logic IMO is completely wrong. I like Nick Gordon and it has taken time at each level to become really good so he should have a fine career as back up in the majors or a filler for bad teams. But he is the type of guy (along with Larnach and Celestino) that you don't build the future around, they are place holders until an actual young guy comes in and takes the job or a solid veteran extra guy that can fill in when needed. You don't block real prospects with these type of guys, so as now he is a fine fit, but if one or two of the actual young guys steps up he becomes very, very expendable.

It should go without saying the Twins are in a better position now then the beginning of last year, first Archer and Bundy aren't on the team, but there is more reasons, Duran being a know commodity , Gordon proving he is a capable major league player, Miranda being up, a set spot for Arraez (1B or DH), Laranch and AK having to fight to a starting spot or even a major league job. What Moran, SWR, Varland did last year, Having Lopez and Mahle all year. Every team should be better at this point than they were last year or the FO should be fired. The real questions ares can Rocco be a better manager and can the players stay healthy. Both of them I am unsure of.

I respects your opinion, the Rays have won 86 games or more the last 5 years (they were on pace for that in 2000) The Twins have done that twice, it seems more like jealousy than dislike. The Rays are doing things the Twins aren't and for a fraction of the price. "they're doing something kinda crappy to their players", you mean like sending Buxton to the minors or not bringing up prospects until the very end of the year in 21? I mean there is close to zero percent chance I could be a fan of the Rays, but the Twins are heading down that same road.

I agree with everything in the post this quote is from. It is logical and spot on IMO. Sorry I didn't mean to come off with "your read" at all, I don't think they should be rebuilding at all, I was trying to say if the FO is going to rebuild they should tear it down and trade off they assets they have, not try this half arse rebuild and have another crappy year and get stuck only getting draft picks for guys they should have traded if they were going to rebuild. I don't think this FO has the luxury of rebuilding starting in the 7th year. (my crow comment was if they are trying to rebuild and they hit magic all year similiar to what happened in the first half of 22) Nothing less than a playoff victory is acceptable to me this year. I also believe bringing in a starter that isn't obviously better than Mahle, Gray and Ryan is a fools errand, unless it is Sale, I am all on board with that. Have a good weekend!

My point wasn't really they gave up future all stars or anything, but the gave up quite a bit of prospect trade capital Petty, Hajjar, Steer, Strand to get draft choices back. (FYI - I liked all those trades so that isn't the part I am talking about) And remember this started about talk of a rebuild while holding on to two (three with Maeda) pitchers that could walk for only draft choices or nothing. Sure they could trade them at the deadline and get something but for that to happen one of two things happened, the Twins are terrible for the third year in a row and are sellers. (Which to me is a fire-able offense) or Varland, SWR, Ober, Ryan and somebody else stepped up and allowed them to trade free agent to be's. This would be the best possible scenario and I would have sides of corn bread and au gratin potatoes with my crow. Well 16 different teams in the last two years have made the playoffs so nearly every front office is bit of exaggeration. Also this will be this FO 7th year and the last two have been a downward trend and another year of that is unacceptable IMO. And in mind there is no upward trend without (Edit: went from with to without) a playoff victory. As for trading them see my comments above. (And again I hope I am asking does crow need to be well done or can you have it medium?)

True and that gives hope that in 4 to 7 years those picks will be the next wave of saviors.

Well they haven't traded Gray, Mahle, Kepler, and Polanco (and they signed Gallo) so I am thinking this isn't a rebuilding year in their mind. Letting Gray and Mahle go for nothing at the end of the year after giving up what they gave up would be unforgivable and a fire able offense. IMO three years in a row with no playoffs is also a fire-able offense.

Richardson pitched 107.3 innings last year at age 21 in AA and AAA with a 2.77 ERA and 115 K's. Varland pitched 126.3 innings in AA and AAA with a 3.06 ERA and 146 K's, Plus the 26 innings in 5 starts with the twins. Not sure it is the players fault they weren't given a chance to pitch in the majors last year and Archers was? Varland did enough last year to deserve the 5/6 starting pitcher as long as he doesn't pee down his leg in spring training. SWR did enough last year to be next guy up if/when an injury happens to a starter. The Twins absolutely need to establish at least another young starter this year (Assuming Ryan, Ober still are deserving) Plus they need to start figuring out what they have with all those prospects they have on the 40. This can be done without rebuilding and trying to compete.

Those two (Canterino and Paddack) don't even have spots on the major league roster in my example, and Moran who will be 26 shortly and Megill (also not on my roster) who is 29 for sure could be upgraded, but please explain how Wacha or any other of the FA agent starters help? If you could convince Wacha to pitch in the pen to replace Pagan great.

Why, why, why even bother talking to him, unless it is a minor league contract or for the bullpen. How old do Varland and Winder, Sands, Canterino, Headrick have be before giving them a chance? 30? even then people will probably be calling them young. With my view of things the major league starters look like, Gray, Mahle, Ryan, Ober, Maeda and Varland, with the AAA starters being Winder, Sands, SWR, Balazovic, Canterino, Enlow, Headrick and Henriquez. Seems like they they in theory have some starting pitching depth (Those are just the starters on the 40 man) As for the major league bullpen it looks like Pagan, Duran, Jax, Lopez, Thiebar, Alcala, Moran with AAA being Megill, and the assortment of starters above. So if a starter isn't better than Ryan, why bother, as the pen you would upgrade from Pagan, Alcala and Moran? but again the last two are pipelines guys. Can we just be done with this idea of a signing a free agent, please.

To me it is pretty simple, bare minimum is win a playoff game. The front office was hired 11/16 (or at least introduced that day) and was given the 1st overall pick, and a very solid core of young players to work with (Rosario, Garver, Sano, Polanco, Buxton, Kepler, Berrios), vets to trade, and some pretty decent minor league players. Next year will be their 7th year and the team has been trending down since 2019. I don't care about the Covid year or injuries all the teams have to deal with that.