Who is Part of the Twins' Long-Term Core Four?

Huh? Gene Larkin was part of the 87-91 Core Four?   He was a bench player.  Sorry Gene but Dan Gladden is the other Core Fourman from those years.  
Alex Kirilloff looks like a likely Fourman. 

Ryan is looking like a decent pitcher but he does not project (imho) as an important dominant player. The Twins get 4-6 innings of competitive ball and occasionally 7 innings from Joe Ryan. That is good, but he is susceptible to patient hitters with power. Smeltzer has similar stats; he is good too.

I get your choice of Buxton if he manages to get 500 at bats. Arraez has been pretty much in control of most pitchers and has added a little bit of power which means his value is strong. Duran has shown an ability to command several excellent pitches and throws strikes and he is evolving into a dominant force for the bullpen. 

The Twins starters have been quite good this year thus far but they could still use a horse like Verlander or Cole. I'm not wanting those two but am hopeful for either a member of the system to develop or a trade for someone,  The latter seems unlikely. While I like the current group of young pitchers and prospects there isn't really a top flight pitcher in the group. So, maybe another position player takes the place of Ryan as a core four member in your article. Alex Kirilloff, Jose Miranda, and Royce Lewis all seem like players that could really be excellent. 

18 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

Huh? Gene Larkin was part of the 87-91 Core Four?   He was a bench player.  Sorry Gene but Dan Gladden is the other Core Fourman from those years.  
Alex Kirilloff looks like a likely Fourman. 

Wow, leaving Gladden out of an article that was written on his 65th birthday? Double-dis.

I agree with Tony&Rodney.  Ryan doesn't really seem to fit at the moment.  Winder might be a better fit, but even that doesn't quite fit perfectly.

Kiriloff and Lewis need to be on this, most likely with Buxton and Duran.

To me, something is out of whack with this premise. Searching for players on the current roster to comprise a "core 4" and then  comparing to the Evil Empire core players, and even to the '87 and '91 Twins seems like an oxymoron or something.

Shouldn't a core group have some kind of history together longer than 4-1/2 months of a couple of seasons to qualify? Maybe some kind of mutual accomplishments consisting of more than leading the AL Central for a few months? These guys haven't done anything yet.

Sorry, but my thoughts lead more to the core players of The Big Red Machine, or half the roster of the Orioles in the late 60's early 70's. That kind of magnitude.

Looking at the rosters right now for the 87 and 91 teams... I wouldn't call it the "core four" - more like the "remaining seven"

• Puckett
• Hrbek
• Gladden
• Gagne
• Larkin
• Al Newman
• Randy Bush

I didn't realize there was 100% turnover with the pitchers and catchers between the two world series

Can't narrow it down to 4 players. Lets do 8.

Arraez, Buxton, Kirilloff, Lewis, Larnach, Ryan, Winder, Duran.

No Polanco love?

I also think this concept involves players who came up through the system together at (more or less) the same time.

A lot of Twins fans wear rose colored glasses when it comes to Dan Gladden.  He had an OPS+ of 76 in 1987 and 80 in 1991.  Yeah, he was on both teams, and they mostly won in spite of him.  Is that what we're calling a core player?

3 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I’d argue Gladden belongs, despite his numbers he was truly a catalyst. I would also argue for Gaetti, even though his last season was 90 and actually split away from the other hellraisers before that. 87 just doesn’t happen without Gaetti. Or Gagne, for that matter.

So now you have core five, which does not rhyme, undermining the entire premise  

(also Bernie Williams wtf)

Then I'm going to add Astudillo to the core six??? of the 87 and 91 teams because he tried a lot and could have been a sparkplug for those teams.

1 hour ago, Ex-Iowegian said:

To me, something is out of whack with this premise. Searching for players on the current roster to comprise a "core 4" and then  comparing to the Evil Empire core players, and even to the '87 and '91 Twins seems like an oxymoron or something.

Shouldn't a core group have some kind of history together longer than 4-1/2 months of a couple of seasons to qualify? Maybe some kind of mutual accomplishments consisting of more than leading the AL Central for a few months? These guys haven't done anything yet.

Sorry, but my thoughts lead more to the core players of The Big Red Machine, or half the roster of the Orioles in the late 60's early 70's. That kind of magnitude.

We're looking at who will be the bedrock of the team should the Twins become a perennial WS contender for the next 4-6 years.  For that purpose, the players don't have to have come up together, or currently have a lot of time playing together.  To me, Buxton and Duran are the only obvious answers.  I would accept arguments for Arraez, Kiriloff, Lewis, and Winder.  Super long shots would include Ryan, SWR, Steer, Julien, Miranda, Wallner, and Rodriguez.

Agree with Shaitan above, where's the love for Polanco? He's not going anywhere soon, I'd wager. 

I'll leave Lewis out FOR NOW simply because he needs to get healthy and stay healthy. He does that, he's definitely part of the core.

But AK, Larnach, Miranda are all to be considered by next year if not now.

Oh heck, let's just have a core 12! 

2 hours ago, HokieRif said:

Looking at the rosters right now for the 87 and 91 teams... I wouldn't call it the "core four" - more like the "remaining seven"

• Puckett
• Hrbek
• Gladden
• Gagne
• Larkin
• Al Newman
• Randy Bush

I didn't realize there was 100% turnover with the pitchers and catchers between the two world series

Yeah I find it hard to argue any same four players were part of the core of both the ‘87 and ‘91 teams.

Teams just morph so fast, but Cody picked the same 4 names that jumped to my mind. However, check back in a month and I bet at least one of those four will swap out. 

Good thing it’s not a 4-man roster.

Jhoan Duran sure gets a lot of love for a guy with 37 innings pitched at the MLB level.

I don't know what the core of the Twins is going to look like. Buxton is a part of it. Apart from him, there's nobody on the roster I couldn't see being traded or regressing/declining off the roster.

Defining core for me age of player is playing in games.  Core group is you pencil them in the lineup daily and you know they will consistently deliver.  The way our staff uses players, Arraez is the only hitting, fielding everyday core type of guy.  Maybe Polanco at that point is core since he plays often.  Buxton should be but injury history and every other day getting a days rest isn't core enough.  including Lewis who now has played what about 30 games over the last 2 + years and will maybe see the field for 50 games next year as core player.  Can't put him on the list.  He hasn't done enough to warrant it.  Could he be added win the future sure, but the earliest would be 2025 season as he needs to be established MLB player and play 125-135 + games a year.  

Pitchers - get the ball every 5th day and do their job and you know what you get.  Does he have to be the bulldog ace of staff, should be but doesn't mean has to be

Relief pitcher to me if core has to be the Closer, The Guy when you look in the bullpen up a run or two, you know you are winning the game when he trots onto the field.

I grew up in MD, so O's of the early-mid 80's is my reference so lets use 83-88 seasons

Position Players

Cal Ripken: Age 23 to 28 years old.  Games played 162 high, low 161. Avg over 600 AB's a season

Eddie Murray: Age 27 to 32 years old. Games played 162 high, low 137. Avg over 580 AB's a season

Starting Pitcher:

Scott McGregor Age 29 to 34 years old. Avg 30+ starts and 220 innings a year (12 complete games in '83 and 260 innings) 

Relief Pitcher: 

Torn on this as Sammy Stewart was the so-called set up guy along with Tippy Martinez.  They both avg about 58 games a year and 25-30 saves combined a year.  

Granted different game back then compared to now but you had a core group you knew would answer the call.  Right now we have guys that just answer the call and the call isn't enough or is at the wrong time

Gaetti would be part of my '87 & '91 core 4.  Today's core 4 is Buxton, Polanco, Arraez and Kepler (does Correa count?). Soon to prove themselves Ryan, Duran, Kiriloff & Lewis

Right now there is a solid group of players that could be with the Twins the next 3-5 years. The ones you mention plus Jeffers, Kirilloff, Royce Lewis, Miranda, larnach, Kirilloff. Add in names like Canterino, Winder, Wallner. You might not find much in the way of bettering a team as you head towards the future. The question is more how to work in other promising players, when to part with others - like do the Twins part this year or next with Polanco and Kepler.

I would love to see Duran stay healthy and be the Twins closer for 6-7-9-12 years, like the Yankees great. Is something like that possible? Affordable?

39 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Gaetti would be part of my '87 & '91 core 4.  Today's core 4 is Buxton, Polanco, Arraez and Kepler (does Correa count?). Soon to prove themselves Ryan, Duran, Kiriloff & Lewis

Gaetti didn't play for the Twins in 1991. He had already moved to the Angels.

Neither Kepler nor Polanco will be with the team long enough for them to be considered core players going forwards. They will hit the big 30 and the analytics say decline, they will be gone like Rosario. Lewis with an injury history may be hard to consider core. Great when he plays, but there is when he doesn’t play. Same for Buxton. A super utility player is really the only core player the team has until the others show they can sustain a level of play

27 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

Right now there is a solid group of players that could be with the Twins the next 3-5 years. The ones you mention plus Jeffers, Kirilloff, Royce Lewis, Miranda, larnach, Kirilloff. Add in names like Canterino, Winder, Wallner. You might not find much in the way of bettering a team as you head towards the future. The question is more how to work in other promising players, when to part with others - like do the Twins part this year or next with Polanco and Kepler.

I would love to see Duran stay healthy and be the Twins closer for 6-7-9-12 years, like the Yankees great. Is something like that possible? Affordable?

They did not seem to want to pay Rogers so for them to want to keep Duran for another 4-5 years he would have to show more than Rogers. 

Buxton - Arraez - Kirilloff - Winder (Correa - wishful thinking?)

4 hours ago, Ex-Iowegian said:

To me, something is out of whack with this premise. Searching for players on the current roster to comprise a "core 4" and then  comparing to the Evil Empire core players, and even to the '87 and '91 Twins seems like an oxymoron or something.

Shouldn't a core group have some kind of history together longer than 4-1/2 months of a couple of seasons to qualify? Maybe some kind of mutual accomplishments consisting of more than leading the AL Central for a few months? These guys haven't done anything yet.

Sorry, but my thoughts lead more to the core players of The Big Red Machine, or half the roster of the Orioles in the late 60's early 70's. That kind of magnitude.

That’s a nice dream, but arbitration and free agency make that awfully unlikely. Especially if the owners want to keep making their money.