Orioles 5, Twins 3: Five Solo Shots Shatter Twins

After all the optimism, it is up to the Twins to right the ship in a hurry.  This was a bad game and I know we are going to lose games, but these are the Orioles and they are the teams that we need to beat up on.

I wonder when was the last time that a team scored 5+ runs with only solo HRs. That's got to be quite rare.

Looks like a lamentable defeat, with a couple runners out at the plate, players out with Covid, HBP on Correa, maybe a few other things, but, who's counting?

Good teams win this series.  Twins aren't there yet, though they are knocking.

First time I've seen a swim move on a slide (by Miranda) actually cause an out.

20 minutes ago, Old Twins Cap said:

Looks like a lamentable defeat, with a couple runners out at the plate, players out with Covid, HBP on Correa, maybe a few other things, but, who's counting?

Good teams win this series.  Twins aren't there yet, though they are knocking.

First time I've seen a swim move on a slide (by Miranda) actually cause an out.

 

 

I know its early in season, but getting very tired of seeing runners thrown out at homeplate.  Two more tonight.  Got to be leading MLB in this dubious stat.  Kepler's head first slide reminded me of Willie Mays Hayes from the flick "Major League"---he came up at least 2 feet short of the plate as he started his headfirst dive (at least from what I saw on replay) at least 6 feet away from the dish.  Not good.  Far too many BAD ABs tonight with runners on base.  Urshela was brutal.

Didn't someone say you can't hit home runs in Camden anymore?

Well, you can sure ground into double plays. And three baserunners getting thrown out at an advancing base doesn't win you games.

And now......the news that Correa has a non-displaced fracture on his right middle finger.  I know cuss words aren't allowed on this site, but...%#$#@***!!!   Really?  

Assuming CT scan confirms this injury------its time--------to promote Royce Lewis to play SS everyday as I have no interest in seeing Gordon there.  Lewis has played very well at SP.  Not the circumstances anyone wants, but time to let Lewis take his shot.

For those younger Twins fans out there.........Yes........this is why hope is a dangerous thing.

Sounds like Correa has a broken finger.  We'll find out tomorrow if he's going to be out for a couple months or longer if it requires surgery.?  Twins seem to have picked up some bad juju in Baltimore, I hope they don't bring it home with them.

On the bright side Lewis has been great so I'd assume we get to see him in a Twins uni tomorrow. Kirilloff hasn't looked good in his return though. It'll be interesting to see who takes Arraez's spot.

I've got to say that I am bit flummoxed by the bullpen use in the last three games. A sweep was very possible.

In the first case, was I the only person who wanted to see Joe work out of that 5th inning jam? He wasn't getting hit hard. Two of the hits in the inning were pop flies that dropped. If he is supposed to be our ace, let's see how he does in those situations.

In the next game, the coaches did a 180. They continued to let Bundy get shelled until the (very winnable) game got completely out of reach.

In today's game, Archer had his best inning in the fourth. He struck out the side, and instead it is Theilbar starting the 5th (and promptly serving up the tying home run)? Then they bring in Jax who seemed to have really good stuff. He gives up a triple and he's out. I thought he at least gives us one more inning. Nevertheless, I was happy to see his replacement as Duran. What I cannot understand, however, is how you let a guy who can throw 103 mph throw five straight breaking balls? If your a hitter, you might look goofy on one of those splitters, but you are jumping for joy not to see the 103 mph missile coming your way, so if Duran is willing to keep throwing the splitter, as a hitter, I am just going to wait for one of those in the zone. There's an old adage in baseball that says, "Don't get beat on your secondary pitch." I think it holds true.

OK. I've now ranted. Let's get back to playing smart baseball.

"Miranda's hit was the second of his young MLB career. In a world of quick judgment, it should be applauded that Miranda has two hits in his first three MLB games. "

Now, I know this is going to be somewhat nitpicky, and I know I will catch a fair amount of flak, but it is his 4th game and he is 2 for 17 with one of those being a little blooper.  1 bloop single, 1 double, and no walks is not what a lot of us expected.  The good news is he has only struck out once, meaning he is at least making contact.  Overall, I wonder if part of it is the mental part of the game playing in a position he doesn't have a lot of time at in his career.  I wonder if maybe DHing him a few games might let him concentrate on his at bats, talking with the hitting coach in between plate appearances.  Or is he only here at all because of injuries, and he will be sent back when Kirilloff gets back?  I would really like to see more of him, but I am not sure if first is where.  

One more guy you want to give at bats to, but no position open that he excels at.  

Broken finger means six weeks before swinging a bat, probably in St Paul for a few games. Can Nick Gordon play good enough SS to fill in for Corea? Probably not. Time to bring up Royce Lewis, the closest thing to a Corea-level athlete in the system, and a competent SS. Lewis is a straight-up replacement, plug and go. I hate to speculate about broken hands, but this is the move, not Kirilloff. Defense up the middle is more important to this team than a good bat. With Arraez out too, that makes the infield Urshella, Lewis, Polanco, Miranda. Not too bad.

13 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

I've got to say that I am bit flummoxed by the bullpen use in the last three games. A sweep was very possible.

In the first case, was I the only person who wanted to see Joe work out of that 5th inning jam? He wasn't getting hit hard. Two of the hits in the inning were pop flies that dropped. If he is supposed to be our ace, let's see how he does in those situations.

In the next game, the coaches did a 180. They continued to let Bundy get shelled until the (very winnable) game got completely out of reach.

In today's game, Archer had his best inning in the fourth. He struck out the side, and instead it is Theilbar starting the 5th (and promptly serving up the tying home run)? Then they bring in Jax who seemed to have really good stuff. He gives up a triple and he's out. I thought he at least gives us one more inning. Nevertheless, I was happy to see his replacement as Duran. What I cannot understand, however, is how you let a guy who can throw 103 mph throw five straight breaking balls? If your a hitter, you might look goofy on one of those splitters, but you are jumping for joy not to see the 103 mph missile coming your way, so if Duran is willing to keep throwing the splitter, as a hitter, I am just going to wait for one of those in the zone. There's an old adage in baseball that says, "Don't get beat on your secondary pitch." I think it holds true.

OK. I've now ranted. Let's get back to playing smart baseball.

Great post. No, you were not the only one that wanted to see Ryan finish the 5th. And tons posted they wanted Bundy out with the game in reach after he was bombed in the third. I also agree that Archer should have at least started the 5th. And Jax gone another inning. And then Duran in the 9th. As far as the pitch selection, was it Sanchez,....... or the bench? I am not sure anymore who all has the receivers in the electronic pitch calling, and whether the bench can make the calls or just the catcher can. I assume it was Sanchez calling all the pitches, and if so, Duran, being the rookie, maybe is just doing what he is told so far. But to throw the 5 straight splinkers...... I don't get it. Duran can shake any call off, regardless. He is the pitcher. I was hoping that Jayce Tingler would make some better decisions, and certainly Watkins. Kepler certainly gave Watkins the stink eye. That was pretty telling. Some pretty odd choices. I hope the luck hasn't changed. Some of the ways the rallies where killed and Correa getting injured were pretty much stunners. And the COVID.

It is amazing that Thielbar can come in, blow the hold with the first batter he faces, give up the homer and one run in the inning (kudos on the three Ks and he did get homered on off a pitch about 8 inches up out of zone, albeit right down the middle...) ... a game ERA of 9.00......... and his season ERA actually drops.... from 10.13 to 10.00! During the broadcast, Levine was talking about Thielbar like he was a bullpen ace, even after the dinger! But then, he was also admiring his own FO decisions in a self admiration banter. But hey....... I still like where this team is at in the standings. Looks like we might even be seeing Lewis soon...... and more Buxton. What a monster homer. 

3 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

……..What I cannot understand, however, is how you let a guy who can throw 103 mph throw five straight breaking balls? If your a hitter, you might look goofy on one of those splitters, but you are jumping for joy not to see the 103 mph missile coming your way, so if Duran is willing to keep throwing the splitter, as a hitter, I am just going to wait for one of those in the zone. There's an old adage in baseball that says, "Don't get beat on your secondary pitch." I think it holds true.

OK. I've now ranted. Let's get back to playing smart baseball.

Bunts, stealing, the hit and run, and old baseball adages are highly frowned upon in the analytical age. ???

Yeesh - a really terrible 2nd half of that series against Baltimore. What started as a fun road trip now has the Twins sick and broken. Bad starting pitching, bad bullpen, hitters grounding into double-plays left and right, and giving away winnable games. With the way Baltimore was playing you have to take 3-of-4 there. Just have to.

I think we have to get used to the idea that Correa's gone until July, it's gonna be a helluva gauntlet to run while he's out. The competition is getting much tougher and someone besides Buxton is going to have to step it up on offense. Kepler's really starting to do that, I think it's time Polanco chips in, he's carried this team for weeks in the past when he gets hot.

Sure hope this is the beginning of the Royce Lewis era because otherwise the next couple weeks might not be too fun.

PS - Correa, what in the heck was he doing swinging at that ball? Took two terrible swings on the first two pitches low, and then swing at this pitch right at his face? He sure wasn't helping himself on that AB.

9 hours ago, Old Twins Cap said:

Looks like a lamentable defeat, with a couple runners out at the plate, players out with Covid, HBP on Correa, maybe a few other things, but, who's counting?

Good teams win this series.  Twins aren't there yet, though they are knocking.

First time I've seen a swim move on a slide (by Miranda) actually cause an out.

 

 

Several baserunning blunders led to this loss, the two thrown out at home and Kepler getting caught stealing. I can't remember the last time I've seen a team run themselves out of rallies the way the Twins have this week. 

9 hours ago, Rik19753 said:

I wonder when was the last time that a team scored 5+ runs with only solo HRs. That's got to be quite rare.

It must be rare because Dan Gladden and Thad Levine both said solo HR's don't beat you, after one of the Orioles 5 solo HR's. 

5 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

 Nevertheless, I was happy to see his replacement as Duran. What I cannot understand, however, is how you let a guy who can throw 103 mph throw five straight breaking balls? If your a hitter, you might look goofy on one of those splitters, but you are jumping for joy not to see the 103 mph missile coming your way, so if Duran is willing to keep throwing the splitter, as a hitter, I am just going to wait for one of those in the zone. There's an old adage in baseball that says, "Don't get beat on your secondary pitch." I think it holds true.

Seeing Duran’s splitter get crushed reminded me of Jim Hoey.  He too had a high octane FB but hitters would tee off on his splitter. 

1 hour ago, bighat said:

Yeesh - a really terrible 2nd half of that series against Baltimore. What started as a fun road trip now has the Twins sick and broken. Bad starting pitching, bad bullpen, hitters grounding into double-plays left and right, and giving away winnable games. With the way Baltimore was playing you have to take 3-of-4 there. Just have to.

I think we have to get used to the idea that Correa's gone until July, it's gonna be a helluva gauntlet to run while he's out. The competition is getting much tougher and someone besides Buxton is going to have to step it up on offense. Kepler's really starting to do that, I think it's time Polanco chips in, he's carried this team for weeks in the past when he gets hot.

Sure hope this is the beginning of the Royce Lewis era because otherwise the next couple weeks might not be too fun.

PS - Correa, what in the heck was he doing swinging at that ball? Took two terrible swings on the first two pitches low, and then swing at this pitch right at his face? He sure wasn't helping himself on that AB.

If Correa is out for 2 months, I think the chances at staying competitive will depend on guys like Polanco and Kepler getting hot, otherwise I think the Twins position in the standings takes a steady decline.

My cap goes off to the Orioles because they came prepared for this series. IDK what the pitchers plan was (although it seems that they pitched a lot inside resulting in Correa getting hit) but it worked, even w/o their ace their SPs gave them the chance to win in every single game. I imagined our pitching plan was to get their hitters to chase after pitches because the stats show that their chase rate & SOs were very high. Orioles hitters showed a lot disciple by laying off those pitches leaving our pitchers in a predicament. They even got to Duran! We underrated the Orioles and weren't able to readjust.

I wasn't able to watch the game but what I gleaned by the game thread was that Archer (after 1st few games of 1st FB then refining his slider) now this game he started to work on his change up. Missing ST and about 2 1/2 seasons of playing time it's a long process to get him back to what he's capable of. Lance Lynn missed ST the year he was with us and he never really got going until he left.

You can hang this loss on the coaches. Having 2 runners thrown out at home is strickly a 3rdbase coach problem. Also, why was Thielbar the choice to pitch in the 5th inning when the first batter (Mateo) is a right-handed batter, the only lefty he was going to face was Mullins. Wouldn't Joe Smith have been a better choice? Even using Duran I go to Smith instead if I haven't used him already. What about Pagan? He had 2 days off like Smith verses Thielbar at 1 day off. The starters also need to start pitching into the 5th, 6th, and 7th innings. These 4 inning stints are not going to work long-term. We are a month into the season. If the starters are not stretched out enough to start throwing 90 pitches or more by now then something is wrong with their conditioning. 

Baserunning may be a problem with this team: Watkins has made some poor decisions on sending runners, but we've also seen quite a few guys getting thrown out at 2B, and if not for some bad plays by the opposition we would have run ourselves into additional outs on the basepaths. When the ball isn't flying out of the yard, you really can't afford those. It's probably the area they're most wobbly this season?

It's a disappointing loss, because it was a winnable game, and when you add in the Correa injury it adds a sinking feeling to the whole enterprise. But it's baseball, and you can't overreact to one game or even one series. (you can't underreact either, of course, but staying even-keeled does seem to matter in a long season)

Urshela is really scuffling at the plate right now, but with Sano on the IL, Arraez out for COVID and us still carrying a limited bench on the position side, the options are limited. (and now we're losing Correa for some time? UGH) You'd like to see him get a couple of days off and maybe get a mental reset

Duran is going to have some of these kinds of struggles. He's a young pitcher, he's new to the bullpen, and it's going to take some time. But giving up HRs is the biggest danger for him. When you throw that hard, the ball can fly back out if/when guys square up on it, whether it's the fastball or the splinker.

We all knew the wheels were going to start coming off sooner or later, but two wheels at the same time? Come on!!!!!

Twins fans are masochists.

1 hour ago, Eris said:

Seeing Duran’s splitter get crushed reminded me of Jim Hoey.  He too had a high octane FB but hitters would tee off on his splitter. 

I'm sorry, but no. Don't use these two pitchers in the same sentence. Jim Hoey got tee'd up on everything he threw. His high octane fastball was straight and flat, his splitter wasn't very good, and he couldn't throw strikes or miss bats at the MLB level. Even after a rough game, Duran still has a pitching line that Hoey would have killed for.

1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

It must be rare because Dan Gladden and Thad Levine both said solo HR's don't beat you, after one of the Orioles 5 solo HR's.

I heard that too. Darn jinxers.

Well, they're probably not a .625 team and they're probably not a .333 team. These past two days are a bit like the Oakland COVID lump games from 2021. Ugly and draining, but there's a lotta baseball left. Try to play .500 baseball this month and keep on chugging ahead.

Here's hoping Correa is okay within a few weeks.

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

I heard that too. Darn jinxers.

Well, they're probably not a .625 team and they're probably not a .333 team. These past two days are a bit like the Oakland COVID lump games from 2021. Ugly and draining, but there's a lotta baseball left. Try to play .500 baseball this month and keep on chugging ahead.

Here's hoping Correa is okay within a few weeks.

There is something unjust about Correa getting injured twice. I only played high school baseball, but if my team-mate was hit, as the next batter after a home run, with one of the few fastballs thrown by a junk ball pitcher, and that same team-mate was hit again in his next at bat, and it was a team-mate who had been loudly booed by opposing teams' fans in every away game so far this year, my team-mates and I would want  to retaliate against the Orioles in some way. Correa getting injured in this manner is almost like some sort of Greek trajedy ...I call what happened to Correa, "Buxtonesque". 

1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

There is something unjust about Correa getting injured twice. I only played high school baseball, but if my team-mate was hit, as the next batter after a home run, with one of the few fastballs thrown by a junk ball pitcher, and that same team-mate was hit again in his next at bat, and it was a team-mate who had been loudly booed by opposing teams' fans in every away game so far this year, my team-mates and I would want  to retaliate against the Orioles in some way. Correa getting injured in this manner is almost like some sort of Greek trajedy ...I call what happened to Correa, "Buxtonesque". 

Completely agree.  I posted about when Buxton got hit in the hands that this was no accident.  Don't know what it is about this team but they haven't really ever shown much inclination to retaliate.  I don't get it, teams are throwing at our MVPs...do something about it.

17 minutes ago, heresthething said:

Completely agree.  I posted about when Buxton got hit in the hands that this was no accident.  Don't know what it is about this team but they haven't really ever shown much inclination to retaliate.  I don't get it, teams are throwing at our MVPs...do something about it.

Correa wasn't hit by a pitch.

He swung at the ball and hit it off his knuckles, the ball rolled into play.  No HBP - it was a 1-3 groundout. It was a terrible swing. If he'd have kept the bat on his shoulder and just stood there, he wouldn't have been hit. He did it to himself.

I think there's a time and place for manufacturing runs and forcing the action.  For example, facing great pitching where hits are hard to come by.  We'll get our hits off of Baltimore pitching so why give them the potential free outs?  Yes, Kepler had not been caught stealing since 2019 and both runners looked like good slides would have led to runs, but why take the risks?  I wonder if it was an emotional response to hitting into 5 double plays the night before.

Couple of questions for the elite baseball minds out there.

1) Why didn't the Twins challenge the knuckle shot by Correa?  Had they used their challenge?  Did they think the replay crew would have ruled it a strikeout (his hands being in the zone) and they preferred the result of the play with a runner on second instead of first?

2) It appeared Kepler cringed when seeing he was going to slide into the catcher head first.  Should the catcher have been in that position per the new rules?

1 hour ago, rationalfan said:

I think there's a time and place for manufacturing runs and forcing the action.  For example, facing great pitching where hits are hard to come by.  We'll get our hits off of Baltimore pitching so why give them the potential free outs?  Yes, Kepler had not been caught stealing since 2019 and both runners looked like good slides would have led to runs, but why take the risks?  I wonder if it was an emotional response to hitting into 5 double plays the night before.

Couple of questions for the elite baseball minds out there.

1) Why didn't the Twins challenge the knuckle shot by Correa?  Had they used their challenge?  Did they think the replay crew would have ruled it a strikeout (his hands being in the zone) and they preferred the result of the play with a runner on second instead of first?

2) It appeared Kepler cringed when seeing he was going to slide into the catcher head first.  Should the catcher have been in that position per the new rules?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't a HBP nullified if you make a full swing and the ball hits your fingers?

Also, the ball hit his fingers and then the bat, but it still counted as a groundball... is there no rule about double touching the ball?

5 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

There is something unjust about Correa getting injured twice. I only played high school baseball, but if my team-mate was hit, as the next batter after a home run, with one of the few fastballs thrown by a junk ball pitcher, and that same team-mate was hit again in his next at bat, and it was a team-mate who had been loudly booed by opposing teams' fans in every away game so far this year, my team-mates and I would want  to retaliate against the Orioles in some way. Correa getting injured in this manner is almost like some sort of Greek trajedy ...I call what happened to Correa, "Buxtonesque". 

It feels unjust, I agree. I also agree with bighat, and Correa had started swinging at a horrible pitch, and that was more of the cause of being hit the second time than the pitch being one that would have hit him if he wasn't swinging. I am not a fan of ever intentionally throwing at a player with a 90 plus mph 'weapon' - I think it is the most cowardly things a baseball player can do - and that is what it is, a weapon of assault, if you do it on purpose in the old 'have your back' traditions........ but Duran's first pitch was a 98 mph fastball that nailed Mullins, who was one of the solo blasts in the 4th, right on the upper arm...... looked pretty intentional and fitting of your request to me. I'm also pretty sure that Twins' fans would still be booing Correa every chance they had and reminding him of the trash can cheating if he wasn't now on the team .