In Memory: A Previous Era of Twins Pitching

remember the Slow Black Bake? 
Kevin Slowey, Nick Blackburn, and Scott Baker? 

fun for the fans in the outfield seats! 

look at him in 2004
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rincoju01.shtml

I remember Scott Diamond had a very cool autograph.

Blackburn wasn't really a soft soft tosser. He averaged over 90 mph pretty much every season of his career. He'd sit low 90s and hit 94 with the rarely used 4 seamer.

I dont think the Twins avoided hard throwing strikeout pitchers back then as they had guys like Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano, however, I think guys like that were hard to come by. They still are. So they filled their staff with ground ball guys and they weren't terrible. How many division titles did they win back in those days? They just needed one or two studs leading the way and then those average to just below average guys were ok in the 3 4 and 5 spots. So when they had from 2003 - 2006 Johan Santana and Brad Radke at the front of the rotation, (and Radke was a pitch to contact guy but he was obviously better than those other guys as he could repeat his success year after year.) Nonetheless with those two at the front the guys who came in behind them just had to hold the ship afloat. Then after Radke was gone they had Santana and Liriano for a year or two also. So I think if the Twins could have afforded it they would have loved to have 3 or 4 Santana types. Just wasn't going to happen and so they went the pitch for the ground ball route so that they could at least put a staff out there. I feel as though they were working within their constraints. Now they have never done a great job of drafting pitching, for whatever reason, but I still remember flops like Willie Banks

It is really hard to compare eras.  In the past only a few - Feller, Ryan, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Christy Mathewson...were potential triple digit guys and now - we are seeing all kinds of relief and starters, minor and major leaguers hitting triples.  Why?  Training, techniques, good food.  It was not bad to control the batter with other techniques - see Spahn and Maddox for great pitchers who were not overly aggressive on strike outs. 

In the past players wanted to hit 300 and they hated to strikeout.  So many things change. But pitchers who come up and have a short period of success is something that has been common throughout baseball history.

The problem with the Twins old plan with pitching was every pitcher was the same basically, except for Santana.  It was pitch low in zone do not walk people throw strikes.  I remember a game I went to with Carlos Silva, he had a 87 pitch complete game, and even had a 3 pitch inning where he gave up a hit.  The hitters knew strikes were coming so they were never off balance, for most part.  The question was just where was it going to be hit.  

Then where the biggest problem was when a strikeout was needed, they could not get it.  The Twins wanted to basically clone Radke, but he knew how to get strikeouts when he needed.  Nothing wrong with pitching to contact with no one on base, but then be able to change it up once runners were on.  I do not see a point spending tons of ptiches nibbling the corners when no one on base, unless it is a power hitter up, which now a days have increased.  

The problem with this is that Radke should be #1. He was talented and the epitome of the "old philosophy" of pitching to contact.

Not being a downer here, but for the 1,000 time, the "pitch to contact" philosophy was NOT about giving in to batters getting hits! It was about having a quality defense behind the pitcher, keeping the ball low in the zone to avoid power from the batter, and throwing strikes to avoid free passes.

This was a standard and successful mantra for how many decades?

Times change. The Twins changed slower than most. I think Trov is very accurate when he states that too few of the Twins pitchers had an OUT pitch to make a difference.

Batters today are so grounded in launch angle that the high pitch/strike has become a best friend for pitchers who can pull it off. Witness Oddo.

Santana and Liriano were extraordinary. It's just unfortunate Santana had to be moved and Liriano was injured as there was a flash of a window that could have been outstanding.

The milb system showed increased K rate in TR's final seasons, indicating change was slowly taking place. But this FO is just so much more in tune with the changes in the game that it is like B&W vs color.

A different view of this might be the old regime used a method that allowed them to get decent MLB performance out of limited talent.

look at him in 2004
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rincoju01.shtml

That was when he was juicing. If you look at subsequent years you'll see that after he got caught and quit the juice his performance dropped off markedly.

 Nothing wrong with pitching to contact with no one on base, but then be able to change it up once runners were on.  I do not see a point spending tons of ptiches nibbling the corners when no one on base, unless it is a power hitter up, which now a days have increased.  

I'll expand on this. First, pitching to contact is what is says. It is NOT "spending tons of pitches nibbling", it's inducing batters to make less-than-ideal contact, especially early in the count. Neither pitching to contact nor pitching for a strikeout will be successful for everyone and neither should be the approach a pitching coach and manager should promote. Instead, the approach should be tailored to what works best for an individual pitcher. A strikeout is second only to a double play in the best possible outcome of a plate appearance for a pitcher but pitch to contact, if successful, will allow a starter to go further into a game (and into a career) because not as many pitches will need to be thrown to get outs.

I think the best pitchers will get weak contact due to some sort of movement on their pitch. Mariano Rivera had that cutter that would look good and then when you swing all of the sudden it's off of the end of the bat. Now Mariano could rack up some K's too. But he could also get weak flyball and a weak ground out too. Jack Morris had I think a splitter, and he'd get hit all the time, bit when he was on, the hits weren't great. I mean there are tons of guys with 95 - 100 mph fastballs and still get lit up. So I think the premier pitcher would be able to combine that pitch to contact, with also being a strikeout pitcher when you need to be. Those that can combine both skill sets will be able to pitch deep into games and be able to get themselves out of jams when they arise