The Twins Forgotten Center Fielder

Great take

It was pretty obvious last year that Gilberto needed more time at St. Paul.  Having Taylor gives Celestino the AAA reps he needs to become a useful MLB player.

His trade value is pretty high.  I think he gets moved.

Not a forgotten player , just a player that needs to go get regular playing time and focus on his offensive , 

Hitting and base running and some throwing to tge right bases ...

He should be back up playing mlb baseball  with the twins or another team  , he should not be forgotten  ...

Good article and I agree with everything except Cele being the big loser in the Taylor trade. This is the best thing that could happen to him. He needs missed developmental time. The best medicine for his mental errors is a minor league paycheck. 

Celestino is 23 years old. He was born in 1999 and is one of the youngest on the 40 man roster. Larnach, Wallner and Kirilloff were born in 1997.

He doesn’t even gave a full season of at bats in the minors since his time in A ball in 2019. If anything I think the deal for Taylor shows the twins belief in him. He needs that time in AAA. It might not go well at first as he makes adjustments but I expect he will have a good career in the majors with some years as a starter. Sometimes up the middle players are pushed up because of need. It happened to Eduardo Escobar. I am sure many has no hope for him with his poor batting performance through age 24. It could be the same with Celestino.

Is it really obvious to all that he is the big loser in the Taylor trade? It seems like this time in the minors could help set him on a path to a lucrative major league career.

I think he still has a future, but he's also showed that he needs work on his game, including the mental side of it. There's still a lot of talent there, but necessity pulled him up the majors long before he was really ready for it and the interruptions in developmental play probably didn't help him very much in his overall evolution as a player. With Taylor in place, there's unlikely to be any pressure for him to be in MLB this season unless he's playing his way up there. Hopefully that gives him the room to work on his swing and approach at the plate, cut down on the mental mistakes in the field and on the bases, and grow as a player.

Celestino is still in the Twins plans, I think. A good year in AAA sets him up to be back as the 4th OF in 2024 (when Gallo & Kepler could be gone, Taylor could be gone, and there could be openings in the OF) or be a significant trade piece for a team needing a defender in the OF (maybe Royce Lewis or Austin Martin passes him in the CF ranks). While I'm not all that enthusiastic about Taylor...I can understand the move. It does send a message to Celestino that he has to improve and that's not a bad thing.

They are not the same player, and it’s not really close. The Twins needed a starting CF, and last year made it clear Celestino wasn’t ready physically or emotionally.   I hope he has a great year and leads AAA in all categories. He should not step foot in the Bigs this year. 

He’s a good backup option to have for when Buxton goes on the IL.

He’s still at minimum a quality late game defensive replacement for a guy like Gordon or Garlick.

He’s still young and has more offensive upside than Taylor.

Maybe even a solid trade piece for a bullpen arm.

Theres still value there.  

23 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Not a forgotten player , just a player that needs to go get regular playing time and focus on his offensive , 

Hitting and base running and some throwing to tge right bases ...

He should be back up playing mlb baseball  with the twins or another team  , he should not be forgotten  ...

Guys have been making errors with the mental game aspects of baseball forever………the problem with Celestino comes in when most fans realize after 1 season that he has an issue with base running & outfield play judgement. I get he’s 22-23 years old and theoretically has time to learn.

As a guy who played baseball from age 8 - 14 & watched from 6 to 60, Gilberto has had plenty of field time & coaching & practice to be aware of “baseball situations” and know, out of wrote, what play to make.

Awareness & smarts in sports are difficult to teach……you coach and then at some point the player absorbs and routinely does the right thing. Or not!

Not trying to just be a negative take, but his lack of ability to hit the ball to the left of the 2nd baseman, coupled with the issues with making the right play in clutch or simple situations tells me he may never develop into a guy we want playing outfield in the Show in Minneapolis.

Celestino definitely needs more time in the minors. He was absolutely not ready to be in the bigs last year. He was overmatched at the plate, on the field, and mentally. He's only 23. Maybe he figures it out and makes it, maybe he doesn't, but he shouldn't be with the Twins right now. 

The Taylor trade was 4 years too late. It’d have been better for Celestino not have been rushed it hás been too much too soon for him. Some player would not recover but Celestino will continue to mature & develop at AAA. A little patience will go a long way with Celestino 

Taylor upside v. Celestino:

.257 BA & .722 OPS vs. Lefties for career (9 yrs) - at least solid.

32 yrs. old with World Series experience.

Since beginning of 2021, HIGHEST graded outfielder in baseball!!! Big deal & contrast.

Likelihood for mental errors are way low.

Seems durable as well.

Can steal a few bases as well in right situation…….he may bat lead-off against Lefties?

I hope Celestino comes to camp and shows he has matured over the winter.  A young player like him can change a lot between seasons and I expect that Taylor will become superfluous.  For now it is fine, but we still have at least one too many OF candidates.

2 hours ago, Karbo said:

IMO the Twins made the right move. Going to AAA should help him regain his confidence I hope.

Agreed, but going to AAA hopefully will help Celestino grow up.

I don't think Celestino is at all forgotten. It is just that he ended up being rushed.

The Twins can buy a year of non-service time by keeping him at AAA for 2023 and see if he imroves his ball read in the outfield, and adds some power. A good AAA season also makes him a valuable tradecip down the line. Remember, though, Taylor is only a one year pickup at this point.

Of course, the Twins have to figure out the outfield of the future with names like martin (and Lewis), Wallner, Celestino, Larnach all looking for playing time with the team. They also are well stocked with AAAA vets Contreras, Armani Smith and Garlick in the minors for the moment.

Maturation is the key word. It takes more than physical ability to play at the major league level. He has been delivered a wake up call. Now it is up to him what he does with it. Here is hoping he makes the best of it in St. Paul. 

Twins coaches need to look in the mirror. Not one of their young Players know how to play an outfield wall. This includes Celistino!! That's on Gardenhire in St Paul and lower level managers!!

I truly hope Celestino can gather himself with some significant time to develop in St. Paul. Given Buxton will only continue to become less present in the field as he ages, having homegrown depth is nothing but good. 

But watching him last year was just painful at times; even with his rushed MLB premiere, it makes me wonder where the heck our fundamentals coaching is...

Like most everyone has stated - Celestino needs a season of playing AAA to work on all phases of the game. He is still young and I expect he will make some good money in his career; he'll be back in the majors at some point.

2 hours ago, m-i-e-n-t-k-i-e-w-i-c-z said:

But watching him last year was just painful at times; even with his rushed MLB premiere, it makes me wonder where the heck our fundamentals coaching is...

He missed 2020 to the pandemic. Prior that he was in A ball mostly as a teenager. The last two years instead of learning and adjusting to the speed of the game in AA and AAA he was on the major league roster spending a lot of time on the bench. A big part of fundamentals is the speed of the game and how much faster the game is at the major league level compared even to AAA. He mostly jumped from A with a year off. That is a huge speed of game jump. Mental mistakes should not be a surprise.

It seems to me that our system produces guys who can be versatile. I would prefer specialists. At least some. Our young guys just don't seem ready for their assignments.

6 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Not trying to just be a negative take, but his lack of ability to hit the ball to the left of the 2nd baseman, coupled with the issues with making the right play in clutch or simple situations tells me he may never develop into a guy we want playing outfield in the Show in Minneapolis.

I know what you mean, and that's not being negative...'dems just the facts. His inability to hit the ball hard or pull the ball were very evident last year. By late summer, it was almost guaranteed that if Celestino made contact, it was going to be a little flare the other way.

He definitely has some skills, but I'd say he a significant amount of time re-learning how to turn on a ball and make hard contact. He's still a valuable piece for this team, but there are adjustments that need to be made. "As-is", he's not really MLB caliber. 

Celestino needs a full season in AAA to learn how to hit and play defense,

5 hours ago, Rosterman said:

I don't think Celestino is at all forgotten. It is just that he ended up being rushed.

The Twins can buy a year of non-service time by keeping him at AAA for 2023 and see if he imroves his ball read in the outfield, and adds some power. A good AAA season also makes him a valuable tradecip down the line. Remember, though, Taylor is only a one year pickup at this point.

Of course, the Twins have to figure out the outfield of the future with names like martin (and Lewis), Wallner, Celestino, Larnach all looking for playing time with the team. They also are well stoicked with AAAA vets Contreras, Brown and Garlick in the minors for the moment.

Seriously - I’ve never heard of a guy named Brown? Unless Taylor gets hurt or hits sub .150, Garlick - Contreras - Celestino don’t even get free tickets to games in Minneapolis.

Gordon - Larnach - Buxton - Gallo - Kepler - Taylor is about as deep as an outfield can get.

If Kepler’s traded, that change’s the possibility that somebody from AAA is involved at some point in the year. Gotta think Walner would be the logical choice.

Celestino has 3-4 ifs in his description for future. Martin - Lewis seem to be ready to go, at least with what’s been seen so far. Give Martin a couple months this spring & let Lewis finish his re-hab and they will jump ahead of the other AAA alternatives. They can hit!

The two are not ‘carbon copies’ at all. (see last year stats from baseball-reference below)

Michael Taylor is a below average hitter, Gilberto is worse. Worse average, lower counting stats, a quarter of the HR, lower OPS+, and sadly an often faulty baseball IQ.

Defensively they are not even close. Michael A Taylor is one of the very top CFs in baseball. Period. Celestino has some physical skills often negated by foolish plays in the field and on the bases.

Some excel when called up early from the minors, Celestino did not, and needs more AAA development at the very least. And if he doesn’t shape up quickly, I can see him being bypassed as soon as this year by Martin, Lewis, and maybe Lee.

Michael A Taylor

World Series title, past Gold Glove winner, leads all OF in defensive runs save over the last 3 seasons.

2022 line from baseball-reference.com

3.2 WAR, .254 avg, 9 HR, 49 R, 43 RBI, 90 OPS+

Gilberto Celestino

No Gold Gloves, sometimes not sure where to throw ball

2022 line from baseball-reference.com

.3 WAR, .238 avg, 2 HR, 30 R, 24 RBI, 80 OPS+

Saying Celestino is an Elite CF, makes me laugh as a joint reference with Taylor.  Night and day difference from a fielding perspective.  If he has value, you move him to get something back.  With the potential that other almost here prospects may switch to OF and potentially CF, then Celestino at best is 5th OF on the roster.  Needs more aging at AAA and not sure he should even be called up during the year.  Young sure, but Elite not so fast.

Very good article! I like Celestino. I don't like the mistakes he made or lack of hitting. One year in St. Paul should answer a lot of this and hopefully develop the talent he has. One thing I do like is that he does not get injured. He is good defensively. 

Personally, I've been tired of seeing BB get injured and then reading about the talent he possesses. It is an effort in futility. He is 29 now. He still has value according to all the pundits. This year should be the line in the sand year for the guy. If the guy goes to the IL again for an extended period, the chants of fragility will echo through the fandom realm again. 

Taylor is a solid defensive player. Not a threat at the plate. More durable than BB. He is also on a one- year contract. 

Something will become clearer for our CF position this year. 

Twins Geezer.....out! GO TWINS!