Do the Twins Want a Platoon Behind the Plate?

Ted, I feel fielding and throwing and framing and managing pitchers are skills that are at least equally , if not more important qualities in catchers than the batting statistics. How do the three above mentioned catchers do with the other requirements of a good major league catcher? 

Jeffers has impressed defensively?  Excuse me!

Yes, he has a reputation for stealing strikes.  But as LaTroy Hawkins once said, that is just bad umpiring.  And that asset will go away when/if they get robo umps or some type of challenge system.  Didn't he not throw out any runners until something like 20 successful steals?  And I think I recall his first, the guy was safe until he overslid the bag.  And I don't know about stats, but it sure seems like he allows way too many passed balls/wild pitches in the dirt.  So to my old eyes, the guy is a bad defensive catcher, other than pitch framing.

Castro/ Garver was a great team! wish they could've kept Castro one more year. Narvaez is a pretty good defensive catcher & I think he could bounce back to be an above average hitter. If I had my way I'd ditch Jeffers all together & go after Jansen (TOR).

If you look at Fielding Bible stats Jeffers is basically average defensively

Fielding Bible

His arm cost the team 1 run over the course of the season. That's it. He rated higher than both Narvaez and Barnhart. The total runs saved for Arm range from Realmuto (+9) to Kevin Plawecki (-5), This is the easiest thing to measure for catcher defense BTW. You either let the runner advance or you didn't.

Looking over the free agent catchers Christian Vazquez is the cream of the crop defensively (11 runs saved overall). Narvaez (2), Sanchez (1), Contreras (-1), and Barnhart (-8) all rate lower than Jeffers.

Vazquez has a .682 career OPS vs RHP and .731 vs LHP. Jeffers is .617 vs RHP and .794 vs LHP. They complement each other pretty well. Put them together and you have a .730 OPS catcher who is a plus defender.

Do not put much faith in that list but looking at the litst,  scanning thereof is a quick way to get a head ache, quick way to find two Twins is start at the bottom where you find Miranda and Gordon; up higher Cave is ranked above Judge, while former Twin Marwin Gonzalez is close to the top at 12.

Splitting time between two catchers? Yes, that will happen. But I don't think they'll be overly worried about a platoon arrangement.

At catcher, they seem more concerned about balancing load than they do platoon-advantage. They tend to follow a pattern of alternating days, rarely giving a start three days in a row unless there are injury issues to deal with, When you're platooning, you're relying on the other team to tell you which person to play. 

So it might be a bonus if they have one catcher hitting from each side, but I'm guessing platoon balance is well down the priority list in shopping for a catcher. 

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Castro/ Garver was a great team! wish they could've kept Castro one more year. Narvaez is a pretty good defensive catcher & I think he could bounce back to be an above average hitter. If I had my way I'd ditch Jeffers all together & go after Jansen (TOR).

Yes, Jansen is the guy I've been looking at, though more as a partner to Jeffers than ditching him altogether. Toronto has talked about getting Moreno at bats at other positions*, but I think that's more about not being seen to be having a glut at catcher and thus being desperate to trade. And Jansen will be a much cheaper pickup than Kirk or Moreno.

*As the owner of Moreno in a keeper fantasy league, I'd be glad to have him playing every day at another position while maintaining his catcher eligibility.

1 hour ago, IndianaTwin said:

Yes, Jansen is the guy I've been looking at, though more as a partner to Jeffers than ditching him altogether. Toronto has talked about getting Moreno at bats at other positions*, but I think that's more about not being seen to be having a glut at catcher and thus being desperate to trade. And Jansen will be a much cheaper pickup than Kirk or Moreno.

*As the owner of Moreno in a keeper fantasy league, I'd be glad to have him playing every day at another position while maintaining his catcher eligibility.

I doubt that they'll trade Jeffers, but to obtain Jansen, TOR wants a front-line pitcher. We can obtain a front-line pitcher thru a 3 way trade w/ MIA, MIA need a LH hitter & Stallings didn't work out so they could use a catcher.

I like a LH/RH platoon which makes it easy to choose which catcher will bat against LHPs.

Nice watching some catchers in the playoffs that don't sit on their butt to catch. Can we get one of those? Or would the new "TwinsWay" make them sit to catch?

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If you look at Fielding Bible stats Jeffers is basically average defensively

Fielding Bible

His arm cost the team 1 run over the course of the season. That's it. He rated higher than both Narvaez and Barnhart. The total runs saved for Arm range from Realmuto (+9) to Kevin Plawecki (-5), This is the easiest thing to measure for catcher defense BTW. You either let the runner advance or you didn't.

Looking over the free agent catchers Christian Vazquez is the cream of the crop defensively (11 runs saved overall). Narvaez (2), Sanchez (1), Contreras (-1), and Barnhart (-8) all rate lower than Jeffers.

Vazquez has a .682 career OPS vs RHP and .731 vs LHP. Jeffers is .617 vs RHP and .794 vs LHP. They complement each other pretty well. Put them together and you have a .730 OPS catcher who is a plus defender.

Well, I can remember at least 5 errant throws that actually cost runs in games. So much for stats.

Do the Twins NEED a LH catcher to split duties up with a platoon advantage? No. Would they like one? I believe so. While a general sharing of duties and good defense and game calling is most important, having a split platoon does allow for better matchups. 

Once again, I am of the opinion Jeffers is solid to good defensively with room to grow. I like the offensive potential and see a better floor than he's shown with a pretty nice ceiling if he "figures it out". And remember, he's only got about 550 ML AB thus far.

Narvaez and Barnhart are experienced and have solid reputations. While neither is a hitting stud, and both are coming off poor 2022 seasons, each also had solid 2021 seasons where they basically hit their career stat lines. So both are just a single season removed from a solid hitting line. But Narvaez is 1yr younger, and has a little better overall quad slash line for his career.

IMO, the FO should have already been on the phone with Narvaez's agent stating they want to offer a 2yr $12M deal as soon as the market opens. Don't wait around. Get the deal done, and then move on to other pressing matters.

And FWIW, I would also be trying to bring back Leon on a split contract milb deal similar to what they did with Cave last year. Give him a high $ AAA deal that pays a solid, fair ML salary for when/if he's up with the Twins. I'd love to have him working with our young pitchers at St Paul and have him as insurance. Our best catching prospects are anywhere from 1-3yrs away.

2 hours ago, h2oface said:

Well, I can remember at least 5 errant throws that actually cost runs in games. So much for stats.

I saw him hit a home run, therefore his slugging percentage must be wrong.

The list is truly uninspiring.  Let's be honest...Correa is gone.  I 95% believe the FO will go with a stopgap at SS rather pay up for one of the "Big Four" free agents and wait for Royce Lewis.  I also do not believe they will pay up for a front-line starter...they never have and we know the organization doesn't deviate too far from their "plan"  SO....how about taking some of the money earmarked for Correa and go get Wilson Freaking Contreras.  Boom!  Done.

Agree Contreras would be a splash. However, as Twins' fans we are conditioned to sift through the "maybe he won't cost too much" pile when thinking about potential Twins in the off season.

Jeffers is just another in the over rated Twins players.  He is below average in defense and hasn't proved much consistency in his offense.  Let's face the facts:. He wouldn't be on many teams major league roster.  We had catching, but the FO created a problem that didn't exist.  Now they need a good catcher.  Not easy to find.

One IL stint for Jeffers and he now gets classified as oft-injured, spent much of the 2022 season on the shelf commentary from this article and other catching articles comments.  Freak bullpen warmup injury causing the injury that he tried and played through for couple weeks having his best hitting spurt of the year during the first injured to finally being shelved by the staff. One IL stint and now it gets classified in Buxton level of always injured.  

Let's remember that Jeffers never had a dedicated catching coach through high school or at the UNC Wilmington in college.  First guidance was with the Twins and they have put him in a sit on your ass type of receiving position.  Not a great spot to be in to handle 50% of your job in throwing out baserunners.  So until that changes with his receiving skills you will see some pass balls and some wild pitches.  Last time I checked, stolen bases start with the pitching staff and a great throwing out runners saves the pitcher.  Room for improvement for sure.

Only catcher in the bigs that isn't on a rotation like every other team is Realmuto with Phillies.  He caught over 250 more innings than next closest catcher in this year.  Let's use him as the gold standard

130 Games at Starting Catcher - Caught Stealing 44% (league avg 24%) - 35 Wild Pitches - 2 PB and 8 Errors.  His previous 2 years his caught stealing % was 25 and 24% which was 1% point from league average.  This year and 2019 he was in mid to high 40's for caught stealing.  So, big swing in 4 years but just shows that how much was on the pitchers on holding on guys, the pitch they stole on, the throw, etc.  He is the standard.

Can Jeffers be that type of guy?  He has room to grow but I do like what I have seen so far.  Playing everyday vs a rotation in my opinion gives a guy a chance to be get into a rhythm both offensively and defensively, regardless of the position.  Twins catchers to date aren't put in those positions often.   

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Do the Twins NEED a LH catcher to split duties up with a platoon advantage? No. Would they like one? I believe so. While a general sharing of duties and good defense and game calling is most important, having a split platoon does allow for better matchups. 

Once again, I am of the opinion Jeffers is solid to good defensively with room to grow. I like the offensive potential and see a better floor than he's shown with a pretty nice ceiling if he "figures it out". And remember, he's only got about 550 ML AB thus far.

Narvaez and Barnhart are experienced and have solid reputations. While neither is a hitting stud, and both are coming off poor 2022 seasons, each also had solid 2021 seasons where they basically hit their career stat lines. So both are just a single season removed from a solid hitting line. But Narvaez is 1yr younger, and has a little better overall quad slash line for his career.

IMO, the FO should have already been on the phone with Narvaez's agent stating they want to offer a 2yr $12M deal as soon as the market opens. Don't wait around. Get the deal done, and then move on to other pressing matters.

And FWIW, I would also be trying to bring back Leon on a split contract milb deal similar to what they did with Cave last year. Give him a high $ AAA deal that pays a solid, fair ML salary for when/if he's up with the Twins. I'd love to have him working with our young pitchers at St Paul and have him as insurance. Our best catching prospects are anywhere from 1-3yrs away.

Good post Doc.

20 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Ted, I feel fielding and throwing and framing and managing pitchers are skills that are at least equally , if not more important qualities in catchers than the batting statistics. How do the three above mentioned catchers do with the other requirements of a good major league catcher? 

Hall of Famer, Mike Piazza couldn't do any of those things, but still significantly benefitted his team(s).

7 minutes ago, Kipp35 said:

Hall of Famer, Mike Piazza couldn't do any of those things, but still significantly benefitted his team(s).

Actually other than a weak arm Piazza was a pretty good catcher.

Looking through the Twins farm system I only see 2 left handed hitting catchers and 2 switch hitters in the FCL. I am thinking the Twins team is not necessarily drafting for left handed hitting catchers as a  priority, so why would they make signing a left handed hitting catcher a priority? I think that having a platoon combo is not a goal.

People here are fixated on stolen base percentage when you really need to consider stolen bases allowed per inning. Jeffers allowed 31 stolen bases in 496 innings. That's one stolen base every other game which is consistent with the league median rate for stolen bases per game - 0.53.

MLB Stats - MLB Team Stolen Bases per Game | TeamRankings.com

Jeffers had an 18% caught stealing percentage. League average CS% is 25%. If Jeffers had been league average at catching runners he would have allowed 29 stolen bases. So the difference between Jeffers and an average major league catcher is two extra stolen bases every 500 innings.

He's not throwing out as quite many runners because of his stance which is designed to allow him to frame pitches at the bottom of the strike zone. He doesn't have to get many calls with his framing to make it worth giving up 2 extra steals every 500 innings.

Yes!  It absolutely makes sense that you want both a L and R handed hitting catcher on your roster.  This position needs regular breaks, so to have the ability to simply play the one with the best matchup natually is nice to have.

With that said - can't just throw anybody out there - they need an upgrade (or 2) behind the plate from today.  But in a perfect world one catcher from each side of the plate would be ideal.  Can't always make that work of course.

It's the era where you are glad if a catcher can play 80-90 games behind thje plate. The rare one might play upwards of 120 games. So you need a strong bench support.

And with new rules, have to worry about the ability to do quick pitch communication, as well as a possible new emphasis on base stealing.

There's not much out there to purchase, little to trade, and the prospect pool is two years away (and that is for someone getting feet wet as a backup).

Someone has to make outs in a lineup. But you need someone who can actually catch and throw.

1 hour ago, Rosterman said:

Someone has to make outs in a lineup. But you need someone who can actually catch and throw.

 

Sanchez

6 hours ago, Ted Schwerzler said:

You aren't wrong. Narvaez is a very good defender. Solid framing numbers and a good vet. I don't think Castro is really worth considering at all. Barnhart was not a good framer last year at all.

Thanks Ted. Then Narvaez is the one I hope the Twins get. 

1 hour ago, Rosterman said:

It's the era where you are glad if a catcher can play 80-90 games behind thje plate. The rare one might play upwards of 120 games. So you need a strong bench support.

And with new rules, have to worry about the ability to do quick pitch communication, as well as a possible new emphasis on base stealing.

There's not much out there to purchase, little to trade, and the prospect pool is two years away (and that is for someone getting feet wet as a backup).

Someone has to make outs in a lineup. But you need someone who can actually catch and throw.

 

Who decides what pitch the Twins pitcher is to throw next? How is that communicated?