kab21

I am going to assume that the Wolves don't have the assets to land Butler nor the appeal to sign a top FA like Hayward or Ibaka. I would take any of those in a heartbeat regardless of the cost. Butler for Lavine, Dunn and pick #7. I am little tentative on signing Millsap (a little too old and likely really expensive). The boring plan Draft Isaac at #7 (Markannen if Isaac isn't available) - Malik Monk is intriguing but the Wolves roster (Lavine/Wiggins) kind of blocks him Sign JaMychal Green (PJ Tucker as a backup) to an overpaid contract as a 6th man - let him get 24+ min/gm guarding larger 3's and stagger Wiggins/Lavine as much as possible. Basically let him match up against Lebron, Kawhi, George and larger 3's that Wiggins struggles against. Let Shabazz go as a FA unless he signs a really friendly deal (<2/10M) Extend Lavine for Dieng money - makes sense even if you plan to trade him down the road Extend Wiggins for max years and likely the max amount Starting 5 - Rubio, Lavine, Wiggins, Dieng, Towns 2nd string - Dunn/Jones, Green, Isaac/Bjelica

I am quite optimistic about the Twins offense and that increases my motivation to add pitching. I will group this differently and in summary form Potentially elite players (near elite already) Sano - he is awesome. I predict the K rate to decrease a little but the the drop in BAPIP (down to .360's or so) will cancel out (or more) any statistical improvement. Very good players already Dozier Kepler - potential to move up a tier Grossman sneaks in here - productive hitter Competent players with little upside Castro - excellent addition this year Mauer - overpaid but it doesn't bother me Escobar - could be a starter and a great backup Hitters with potential to fill out the Twins lineup - this is the group that needs a few more players to step forward Buxton - can he hit? Rosario - the next Jacque Jones - frustrating to watch but solid results overall Vargas - Could be a .260/.340/.475/.815 30 HR DH - hasn't done it yet though Polanco - struggling right now but he can hit and will be fine The upper levels don't have impact hitting prospects but there are several guys that could fill holes if needed.

Starting Shannara in 4th grade might have changed my expectations and now it is a nostalgic series for me. Yes, they are 1 book (or 6 depending on your argument). Quicker reads than the Game of Thrones (good book value). Not really sure what literary plans I have this year. I keep seeing a gazillion Star Wars books and it seems interesting to read some of those other stories in that universe. I would definitely get some advice (from Brock among others) if I ever started that plunge.

After reading Game of Thrones 1-5 last year, I have decided to read through the Lord of the Rings. I have no idea why I started on the The Fellowship of the Ring (movies started there) but I regret never reading these as a kid. I must have read 10-15 of the Terry Brooks Shannara books.

He was merely 'very good'. Are you kidding? This is what I am talking about picking holes in any starter (trade/FA target or not). There really hasn't been an argument to go after Arrieta in this thread. The argument in this thread is that some people think he has only been 'very good' and pretty much every pitcher in baseball would be picked apart similar to Gray has. Arrieta has been completely dominant and it had nothing to do with him pitching in the NL. He may or may not be on the downward slope (certainly debatable).

Dieng (would assume it has to include him) and the #1 for Love? One of Dunn or Jones also probably. It wouldn't fix the defense but would give the Wolves a great offense and they could actually shoot some threes. Lavine is nice but I don't let him stand in the way of acquiring a much better (near elite) two way player. The problem with the trade is that the Wolves would have virtually no bench (Jones and Bjelica) but they would have plenty of cap room to add two role players.

His age is a valid reason to not sign him to a HUGE contract but there is no evidence that suggests he will go from a Cy Young contender (3.5 NL seasons) to a lemon (his AL history). It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets this offseason. Greinke shows that 5+/25+ is certainly possible. His success in the NL had nothing to do with the NL/AL factor. He changed as a pitcher. The Cubs got him to throw a cutter instead of just trying to power his fastball past everyone and giving him 3 pitchers (plus an occasional changeup). Moving back to the AL won't change that. And his interleague stats back up that he is a changed pitcher. 4GS - 2.16 ERA 6GS - 2.95 ERA 5 GS - 2.43 ERA 1 GS - 10.38 ERA (he is struggling this year)

Jimmy Butler rumors again this season. Hopefully this goes somewhere. I would give up 2 or possibly 3 of anyone not named Andrew or Karl to make this happen.

Further evidence that any pitcher no matter how good can be picked apart and put into the 'not very good' pile.

That is my biggest point in being aggressive. Right now the Twins are a middle of the pack team. Next year they will be a middle of the pack team. If they keep their prospects (Gonsalves and Romero) they need to get lucky to be anything more than a middle of the pack team in 2019. That isn't okay with me since the Twins are putting together a solid offense (about 15th by OPS in the MLB) with upside for more. This team should be in go mode in the short term future and all I read about is wait and even some want to rebuild. I find this very frustrating. If it is me then I roll the dice and try to acquire a #2/3 starter in a trade for a couple of good prospects (it might not work but I won't shoot it down before trying) and make a signing splash. And I really think that is one of the big reasons that the Twins drafted Royce Lewis (and a second hitter). It gives them depth and flexibility to trade in the farm system.

Yet most are shooting down the idea of that exact kind of trade because it is too much.

Not Wolves related but I love the Philly/Boston trade. Boston really had no use for Fultz with Thomas and a full backcourt of undersized guards. Getting a second likely lottery pick (LAL or SAC) is a major win for them just to move down and likely get a guy that fits their team much better. Philly's side is more risky but they have oodles of young players with talent and Fultz might be the perfect fit for the team.

If it were me I would trade for someone like Gray (2.5 years control) and make a splash in the FA pitching market. This type of rotation starts to look good FA pitcher Gray Berrios Santana Hughes (still going to be here) Mejia - Romero/Gonsalves (the not traded prospect) to fill out the rotation If people are concerned about the farm system then I would be interested in dealing Dozier separately for prospects to restock. It doesn't have to be done in the same deal. Escobar/Polanco starting at 2B/SS is acceptable to me. If people don't like Gray then start recommending other possible trade targets. That are actually plausible trade candidates (some rumors).

Yes, he would. It isn't like the Twins play in a hitters park. And Gray has even home/away career splits so perhaps people are looking to hard to find a fault. If the Twins traded for Gray he would instantly become the Twins best pitcher. Perhaps Berrios continues to be Liriano and takes that title but Gray is really good.

I find the Castile case very frustrating. I 100% back our police officers as a whole (great people) but I remain very skeptical about the officer involved shooting (or force required) investigative review. This does nothing to quell that skepticism. Nor does it do anything to change the narrative of Black vs the Police. My biggest gripe with Black Lives Matters is that it essentially morphed into Black vs the Police without actually directly saying it. I think this was one blatant dropping of the ball by any powerful black leaders in the US. They (from Obama to Oprah to Magic/Lebron to community leaders) never steered the narrative towards The People vs The Review Process. Everyone can unite against injustice regardless of color. We remain divided if the narrative is Black vs The Police.

or Sonny Gray... Elite only eliminates about 10-15 pitchers from the list so there are still plenty to choose from.

Nobody will be quicker to the majors than drafting Royce Lewis and trading Nick Gordon for a legit good (not elite and not a rental) starter. It remains to be seen how aggressive this new FO will be in that regard but this type of move would not surprise me.

The Gibson argument is irrelevant. Gibson never had a majority of his career as successful as Gray. And you continue to act like those successful seasons were so long ago. Right now his 2016 season (ERA at least - his SABR stats were still good) looks like the outlier and if you can get him for 2 good but not great prospects then that is a great deal. This is another situation where fans greatly overrate prospects.

He is at the point that swstr and K/BB rates start becoming a significant sample size. The stats that people are noticing (and calling him not a #2) are still in SSS territory. He had one off year and you aren't sure he is ever going to be as good as his first 2.5 years? This seems to be an argument looking for excuses instead of looking at numbers. In fact if you actually look at his 2016 season (the seeming reason for your skepticism) that looks like a SSS problem since none of his rate stats dramatically changed but his luck stats (HR/FB, LOB% and BAPIP) significantly changed.

People in this thread are hemming and hawing about Gonsalves, Romero and Gordon though. Gonsalves can only dream about being as good as Gray. Romero has stuff but probably ends up in the bullpen or injured. Gordon is legitimately good but still flawed. Trading from this pool to get a #2/3 (buy low) is a great value.

Yes, the Twins have been rotating deckchairs on the Titanic with a myriad of mediocre RP'ers all season but Busenitz is not like Wilk, Wheeler, Tepesch (SP), Rucinski, Haley, Wimmers and Heston. Almost all of those guys have 90 mph FB and middling MILB K rates. It has been frustrating to see the Twins cycling through these guys that were unlikely to be anything better than a long reliever or mop up man. Busenitz OTOH has been in the 8+ K/9 range (not great) before spiking to almost 10 this year and has a mid 90's FB and a possibly some interesting offspeed pitches. This is the profile of a RP that could make a medium size impact (really good 6th/7th inning pitcher) for a team.

This is exactly the type of move the Twins should be making. It is very easy to see that the Twins biggest weakness this year and next year is pitching. All of Gray's advanced stats show him pitching at his best although his BAPIP, HR/FB% and ERA (all luck stats) have been poor. Check out his velocity, K:BB and swstr%. Nick Gordon is a very good prospect but this wouldn't be a bad time to sell high on him if you can bring back an excellent pitcher. Don't let his .874 OPS fool you. He has a .395 BAPIP and a 22% K rate. I know that this criticism will immediately bring backlash. He is a very good prospect but he shouldn't be considered untouchable for a pitcher that would be a 2/3 (I think 2) for 2.5 years. I don't want to trade Gordon but adding a pitcher like Gray completely changes my outlook for the team. People keep saying that this team isn't one player away but actually they are. A front end starter is that one player. They still need to find a few pieces in the bullpen but those aren't impossible to find (just look in the minors for example). Gray Santana Berrios this is a legit rotation

No, it isn't awesome but it isn't like he has fallen flat on his face though. Rosario reminds me a lot of this guy who played LF for 6.5 years for the Twins. He wasn't great but solid (if not a little funny to watch at times). http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=735&position=OF OBP isn't the only part of offense though. Like I said before Rosario doesn't produce like the Twins would like but that doesn't mean he is ineffective.

I actually trust Berrios more but Santana would still start game 1 of a series. Or the play in game. I don't know...

Rosario has a .739 OPS this year. He doesn't get there like the SABR fan likes but he has been an effective hitter. His defense hasn't rated well though but it likely isn't this bad nor is Grossman's this good (similar UZR). I certainly don't have any complaints about Rosario at this point. It would be if the Twins had another Kepler to promote and put Rosario into a 4th OF'er role but Granite is unlikely to be more effective than Rosario.