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  • Winter Meetings - Search For A Starter


    Seth Stohs

    The Winter Meetings are an interesting event, particularly for fans. There are a multitude of rumors, and we need to sift through them to find out which are real and which are just talk. Monday was fairly quiet on the Twins rumor front, but maybe Tuesday will get things going. If nothing else, an early-morning tweet got my mind running.

    It's no secret that the Twins are going to have a lot of discussions in Orlando this week with teams and agents in a search for an upper echelon pitcher. What are the options and what could a trade cost the Twins in terms of prospects?

    Image courtesy of Charles LeClaire, USA Today

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    The Twins have two options if they would like to acquire a top-level starting pitcher. They can give up money, a lot of money, to acquire a top free agent starter. It would likely also cost a draft pick. The other option to acquire a starting pitcher is via trade which, of course, costs a number of top prospects.

    FREE AGENTS

    Yu Darvish is the big name on the free agent market. He's clearly the top starting pitcher available. The cost for Darvish would be either five or six years at somewhere around $23-26 million per year.

    Jake Arrieta has won a Cy Young, and he's been good, but there are several question marks surrounding him this offseason after a "tough" year with the Cubs in 2017. Regardless, he's going to get three or four years and at least $20 million per season, probably more.

    Those are the top two free agent starting pitchers, but two others are getting a lot of talk and a lot of interest.

    Lance Lynn is going to get three or four years and $18-20 million per season. Alex Cobb is also going to get three to five years, and he will get between $17-21 million. The fact that the Cubs are interested in Cobb will likely push those dollars to the upper end of that range.

    All four of them would cost the Twins a draft pick.

    THE TRADE MARKET

    We've heard some of the same trade candidates mentioned since the trade deadline. Chris Archer and Gerrit Cole are, well, if they're not Aces, they're upper tier starters, guys we would be happy to have at the top of the Twins rotation.

    But what might the cost be?

    Early on Tuesday morning, a tweet from Pirates Breakdown caught my attention. I don't know much about the site, though a quick glimpse and it looks great. And I don't know whether or not this 'source' is legit of not. What I do know is that it does make sense for a conversation starter. Whether it is for Gerrit Cole, or a similar trade for Chris Archer, it's enough to keep the trade talks going.

    https://twitter.com/pbcbreakdown/status/940390540998250497

    As much as I hate seeing prospects traded, I think even I would make that trade for Gerrit Cole.

    Nick Gordon is a top three Twins prospect regardless of the ranking source. I had him ranked as the Twins #3 prospect last week. To acquire a pitcher of Gerrit Cole's caliber will require a top prospect. As much as I like Gordon and believe in his future, there are still some question marks about his offensive potential and whether he can stay at shortstop.

    Likewise, Tyler Jay can be a star bullpen arm if healthy. But again, if his role is going to be out of the bullpen, the Twins can replace those 65 innings per year with other internal options or on the free agent market.

    Zack Granite can be a solid starter in the outfield and can definitely roam center field for a team. With the Twins current roster, he would be the fourth outfielder, capable of playing all three outfield spots, taking quality at-bats, etc.

    I don't know if this package would be enough to get the Pirates to pull the trigger, but this is a deal that I would make. What do you think?

    I generally have this assumption that if I personally would be willing to make a theoretical trade then the other team (the Pirates in this case) would probably want more. For instance, I would think they might want a top pitching prospect (Stephen Gonsalves or Fernando Romero) to go with their current crop of young, talented pitchers (Jameson Taillon, Tyler Glasnow, Chad Kuhl, Ivan Nova, Trevor Williams, etc.). But maybe they like that young core of pitchers and want to build up their lineup with two guys who could, in time, hit at the top of their lineup.

    Cole is a Boras client who made $3.75 million in 2017, his first year of arbitration. He will likely make $7-8 million in 2018, and maybe $10-12 million in 2019 before becoming a free agent. So, the Twins would likely need to pay him $17-20 million over two years.

    Chris Archer will make $6.25 million in 2018 and $7.5 million in 2019. There is a club option for 2020 at $9.0 million ($1.75 million buyout) and a second club option for 2021 at $11.0 million ($0.25 million buyout). The Twins would likely end up paying him $33.75 million over four years.

    The Twins need pitching and need starting pitching. What direction would you prefer to go, free agency or the trade route? Besides Chris Archer and Gerrit Cole, what other pitchers would you like to see the Twins contemplate acquiring?

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    In the next 4 years Greinke is making:

     

    Age 34: $34M

    Age 35: $34.5M

    Age 36: $35M

    Age 37: $35M

     

    144/6 for Darvish only comes out to $24M a season and would take him through age 36 just for reference

    Ah.i thought he was older than that. Dang, he's going to cost a lot.

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    It's starting to feel like this is going to happen. :)

    Would be great if it did, or, one of the other big targets would be good too, but Darvish would be ideal.

     

    I think he ends up with the Mariners but I hope your right.  Looks like the Yankees might get Cole.  Twins should have pulled the trigger if Pittsburgh asked for Gordon, Jay and Granite. That can't be a true rumor right?

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    Interesting at least

     

    I cringe to think that the Twins settled for Rodney as their target reliever although I do understand why they did it.  It's unfortunate that they didn't make an offer to Kintzler or were able to sign Cishek.

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    I think he ends up with the Mariners but I hope your right.  Looks like the Yankees might get Cole.  Twins should have pulled the trigger if Pittsburgh asked for Gordon, Jay and Granite. That can't be a true rumor right?

    Doesnt seem likely that it's true, but at least it's a Pirates fan making up the lowball offer.
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    I think he ends up with the Mariners but I hope your right.  Looks like the Yankees might get Cole.  Twins should have pulled the trigger if Pittsburgh asked for Gordon, Jay and Granite. That can't be a true rumor right?

    I'm with you. Close call, but I would prefer Cole to Darvish in this situation. Gordon is a tough guy to part with, but Granite and Jay are not hard to replace.

     

    Also, making a deal for both Cole and Darvish is not against the rules.

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    I'm with you. Close call, but I would prefer Cole to Darvish in this situation. Gordon is a tough guy to part with, but Granite and Jay are not hard to replace.

    Also, making a deal for both Cole and Darvish is not against the rules.

     

    i think there is like zero chance that happens although i would be thrilled if it did.

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    Just wondering, if we get Darvish, or one of the good option B arms, that does it, right?

     

    I know there is talk about a second signing or a trade idea, but Dervish, Santana, Berrios, Gibson and Mejia/May/everyone else has to be the way we go.

     

    Would they really.make a second signing or trade prospects for a second SP at that point? Asking in general. I think they'd stay status quo and run with what they have, keep developing the guys in AAA and AA and know they have the depth to make a move later

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    Would they really.make a second signing or trade prospects for a second SP at that point? Asking in general. I think they'd stay status quo and run with what they have, keep developing the guys in AAA and AA and know they have the depth to make a move later

     

    I don't know, a trade and a free agent signing are basically using two different resources, one uses prospects and one uses money, it's not like these two dis-similar moves are going to double down and deplete either of those resources extensively.

     

    I guess my view is that if the Twins were to sign a big time free agent (Darvish is the only one I see as big time this year) you'd think it would indicate that the team thinks their window of opportunity is open now. Wouldn't you want to give yourself the best chance to win now? Why waste 2018 and only next year move to shore up the remaining rotation holes? Especially when there is a trend this year where the bottom feeders are open for business. I don't recall a year where this many quality arms are available for trade.

     

    The aggressive teams aren't just making one move, they are making them in bunches and for the most part they are working in tandem. 

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    I don't know, a trade and a free agent signing are basically using two different resources, one uses prospects and one uses money, it's not like these two dis-similar moves are going to double down and deplete either of those resources extensively.

     

    I guess my view is that if the Twins were to sign a big time free agent (Darvish is the only one I see as big time this year) you'd think it would indicate that the team thinks their window of opportunity is open now. Wouldn't you want to give yourself the best chance to win now? Why waste 2018 and only next year move to shore up the remaining rotation holes? Especially when there is a trend this year where the bottom feeders are open for business. I don't recall a year where this many quality arms are available for trade.

     

    The aggressive teams aren't just making one move, they are making them in bunches and for the most part they are working in tandem.

    And a very valid point. Does this mean the end for Gibson then? Do you think he's be part of a trade package for said SP or a BP addition?

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    And a very valid point. Does this mean the end for Gibson then? Do you think he's be part of a trade package for said SP or a BP addition?

     

    I don't know, I'd hope the front office gets the pieces they covet right off the bat and then sort out the left over pieces in the aftermath.

     

    Personally, Danny Duffey would be my top trade target as he's good and he's a lefty. If the Twins got a reliable lefty Mejia would be more available and probably a pretty decent trade chip. Gibson's got pretty good velocity on his four-seamer, that might play up quite a bit if he were to be moved to the pen.

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    Sabathia on a one year 10 million dollar deal with Yankees. I hoped the Twins would be in play there for a one year deal. I wonder how much more than 10 million they would have had to go to get Sabathia. I wouldn’t have been interested in two years.

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    Sabathia on a one year 10 million dollar deal with Yankees. I hoped the Twins would be in play there for a one year deal. I wonder how much more than 10 million they would have had to go to get Sabathia. I wouldn’t have been interested in two years.

    CC, his wife and their 4 children have been living in New Jersey for almost a decade. Hopefully he and his wife have a great marriage. CC has already earned almost a quarter billion dollars.

    I cannot imagine him taking a job where he would play for a team out of the area.

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    Darvish needs to make a decision, he's holding up the majority of the free agent market for starting pitching.

    I've been assuming he is waiting for a team to commit to a sixth year, and that's what's holding up his decision.

     

    Darvish is going to the Cubs.

    This is just your supposition, right? I have seen no news announcements saying this.

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    I've been assuming he is waiting for a team to commit to a sixth year, and that's what's holding up his decision.

     

    This is just your supposition, right? I have seen no news announcements saying this.

     

    Cubs are now interested. He could still sign here but I think the Cubs have better chance given their resources.

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