What Impact Does Missed Baseball Have?

You are right - streaming, social media, news stories, personalities are all needed.  I just look at my family - five grandkids, three couples, not one interested in baseball despite the fact that they know I love it.  No curiosity.  I finally sold my memorabilia and cards.  I try to think of ways to interest them, but they all fall flat.  No one wants to go to a game unless it is soccer (for two) or LaCrosse.  

Spring training does help because at least there are stories in the media.  Right now we can look at the rise of the Twolves and the struggles of the Wild.  Baseball news?  

The benefit of February/March news in baseball is that it is at that time that people have more time for social media, unless they are xc skiers like one grandson.  If baseball waits until April or May we have winter sport playoffs coming up, fishing seasons, picnics and graduations.  May and early June are difficult to compete with, but do offer some nice days at the park if you can get them there.

How about special prices and treats for family reunions?  Picnics in the OF following the games?  

I do not know the answer, but MLB better figure it out.  It will not go away, but the golden goose that props up the bottom line right now could slip away. 

I was a North Stars fan.  I still boycott the NHL.  I learned to live without it after the NS packed up and left.  

MLB is already down in the pecking order of popularity.  They are toast if the this drags on much longer.  It very well may be too late already!  I have said it in previous posts.  We have great town team baseball in MN which is a lot of fun if you like baseball.  I am fortunate enough to play in an over 35 baseball league.  The owners/players are either clueless/exceptionally greedy or don't care about the fan base or a combination of the three.  As much as I enjoy the game of baseball I'm done with them and their attitudes.  

My experience during the lockout from talking to friends, family, and coworkers in the listed diehard and casual fans categories is that people are not happy with what is happening. From diehards not renewing 20 or 40 game flex ticket packages to casual fans not putting the one trip a season to Target Field on their calendar to diehards for 40-50 years so frustrated that they are donating all their Twins/MLB items to charity. MLB might learn a difficult lesson that they won't be able to get people back in today's world. The fan revolt from this lockout could dwarf 1994. 

It is certainly true that baseball will continue for colleges and minor leagues. But how much of the attraction to these games (from players as well as fans) is based on the existence of the golden prize of major-league baseball? If that were to disappear or be seriously impaired over the long run, what would happen to the minor leagues? Would they disappear or would they morph into a (perhaps less flawed) baseball pyramid with the rot at the top removed?

So, in real terms for real people (not baseball owners) — You own a $20,000 car. It needs a $400 brake job.  Instead of fixing it so it is usable, you park it because it’s not worth fixing.  Sorry owners, you are an entirely new brand of stupid.  

8 minutes ago, bldewald said:

So, in real terms for real people (not baseball owners) — You own a $20,000 car. It needs a $400 brake job.  Instead of fixing it so it is usable, you park it because it’s not worth fixing.  Sorry owners, you are an entirely new brand of stupid.  

Sure, I need the car to get to work, but I can afford to coast on unemployment until I'm able to haggle the mechanic down to $350.

I'm really having a difficult time understanding what this world is coming to.  "Now is a good time to stop reading,  cuz this is going to be a rant."   For perspective, I have raised 4 children, helped them all through college and helped them financially begin their adult lives.  We lived a moderate but comfortable life.  My wife and I have been able to retire comfortably at the age of 61.  And through 46 years of a working career, my lifetime earnings are less than three years of MLB minimum pay.            ( yeah,  I know.  you don't care".)  We have people out of work that can barely get by, we have people out of work because they are too lazy to get a job,  And on the other hand we have grown men playing a game for more money than is imaginable to "normal folks".  We also have billionaires, yes billionaires holding up a kids game because they want more??????  Really.  This is really happening?  I am having a hard time feeling anything but apathy for either side right now.   And as much as I love the game of baseball and even MLB,  I think I have had enough of their GREED.  So, my suggestion to MLB and the MLBPA -  It's time to get your stuff together before it's all gone.  Disgusting.

I have no idea. I think it depends a lot on how much of the season is lost. Season ticket holders are going to be irate and rightfully so. If a significant portion of the season is lost, I'd be willing to bet many will not renew. In terms of impact to the sport as a whole, more important is game changes to make it interesting to watch and appeal to younger audiences.

A couple of ideas to add to Van - with Covid 2020, we learned to live without a lot.  And most people still have a ton of catching up to do with missed vacations, family gatherings, etc.  You might fill Yankee stadium,  but the midwest treasures our summers more than a 500 dollar family outing to see a semi competitive ball club.  

If MLB wanted to grow its game, they'd be figuring out how to partner with today's content creators - "Mr Beast reacts to the defensive plays of the week".  

Let's face it. Pro sports, baseball in particular, are losing ground. Millionaires and Billionaires fighting over revenues that probably aren't sustainable. Maybe they should be looking at cost cutting instead of inflationary lockouts and strikes. Maybe players should be paid hundreds of thousands instead of hundreds of millions. Maybe the owners should respond by cutting ticket prices and reducing the fees that Regional Sports Channels pay, etc. I know this is crazy talk, and none of this will happen. Personally, I can't justify spending extra to get a streaming package that includes Bally. I'll probably never attend another game. We, as a nation, are standing at the precipice of hyper inflation. When it comes down to heating the house and feeding my family or supporting pro sports...bye bye pro sports.

1 hour ago, lukeduke1980 said:

...If MLB wanted to grow its game, they'd be figuring out how to partner with today's content creators - "Mr Beast reacts to the defensive plays of the week".  

This is probably valid... but also makes me want to stab myself in the eyeballs.

31 minutes ago, Gustafson53 said:

Let's face it. Pro sports, baseball in particular, are losing ground. Millionaires and Billionaires fighting over revenues that probably aren't sustainable. Maybe they should be looking at cost cutting instead of inflationary lockouts and strikes. Maybe players should be paid hundreds of thousands instead of hundreds of millions. Maybe the owners should respond by cutting ticket prices and reducing the fees that Regional Sports Channels pay, etc. I know this is crazy talk, and none of this will happen. Personally, I can't justify spending extra to get a streaming package that includes Bally. I'll probably never attend another game. We, as a nation, are standing at the precipice of hyper inflation. When it comes down to heating the house and feeding my family or supporting pro sports...bye bye pro sports.

Professional sports revenue is unsustainable.
MLB owners need to cut costs.
MLB owners need to cut ticket prices.
MLB owners need to refuse regional sports channel money.
MLB should only cut player pay by a factor of 10+
There is hyper inflation

You cover a lot of ground here. I think the general idea is baseball and other sports are too expensive for you and you don't contribute significantly to the revenues for pro sports, but maybe you would if they made their sport way less expensive. 

I think a lot of people share your opinion in regard to the cost of pro sports attendance; however, until people who are contributing suddenly stop contributing to pro sports and new people refuse to take their place, costs will likely continue to increase. The part in bold is the major factor on whether or not MLB would, respectfully, care about your opinion. I actually think the entertainment industry in the United States is in pretty good shape for capitalism overall. Supply and demand are largely dictating the marketplace with some noticable warts (Ticketmaster, "Ebay" aka Stubhub, cable TV networks, cough, cough). 

In regard to hyper inflation, that's a much broader subject better to cover on a totally different site.

Here is a radical idea - set the game at 2 hours 30 minutes.  It ends with the last inning completed.  Maybe we can get a complete game?  They are not bothered by throwing away games so why worry about lost innings?  Just had to let that idea out and it isn't even happy hour.

So now  that I have gone down this alleyway - maybe it is Harry Potters Diagon-ally - I would follow up on some early ideas.  Pro sports teams pay for their own stadiums.  Pro sports teams look at their salary structure and decide to reach out to the fan and reduce their cost of tickets letting us off the hook for paying outrageous salaries.  Some where the union of frustrated fans has to be heard.

I would like to be able to side with the players in this, but I can't. They get paid very well to do something that a lot of us would give a great deal to have made a career of if the opportunity had existed, and to do it for much less. They are not only talented, but also very fortunate. For what they get paid they risk little other than injury that ends their career; at which point they can still go out and get a job in the real world. The owners do take investment risk in this process and have their feet in the real world of finance. They expect/deserve a return on that investment; just as we do when investing in the stock market, or our smaller business ventures. The problem is that while the players say these negotiations are for future generations of ballplayers the reality is that it is just for the next five years. At which point they will come back with further demands and use this agreement as a springboard for how much more they want. There is little wonder the owners feel a need to curb the costs. And there is a limit. Unfortunately, neither the owners nor the players know where to place that boundary. And that cost us, the fans.

8 hours ago, bldewald said:

So, in real terms for real people (not baseball owners) — You own a $20,000 car. It needs a $400 brake job.  Instead of fixing it so it is usable, you park it because it’s not worth fixing.  Sorry owners, you are an entirely new brand of stupid.  

I love this!!!!

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I actually think the entertainment industry in the United States is in pretty good shape for capitalism overall. Supply and demand are largely dictating the marketplace

Good point. And it makes me wonder if the idea of Baseball just relates to Americans in ways that are very different from any other pro sport, or entertainment option? This is interesting, from CreditCards.com, 2016 research:

   Separate data from TeamMarking.com shows the average 2016 cost to attend a National Football League game for a family of four was $502.84. The amount includes four tickets, two small draft beers, four small soft drinks, four hot dogs, parking and two cheap hats. That compares with $363.58 for a National Hockey League game, $339.02 for a National Basketball Association game and $219.53 for an Major League Baseball game.....The fact that people are spending this amount of money on sporting events shows the emphasis they’re putting on experience and memories instead of just stuff,” said Matt Schulz, senior industry analyst for CreditCards.com.

Experience and memories instead of stuff. Baseball in general, and not just MLB, holds an iconic, if not mythological place in the American cultural conscience, moreso than the NFL, NBA or NHL. I have zero evidence to support this claim,  just my own sense of things. So, FWIW, I say no other sport can evoke the experience of leisure, simplicity, and forget-your-worries like baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, Cracker Jax, adults who play a kids game with the glee of a kid, Take Me Out To The Ballgame accompanied by cheesy organ, sun drenched open air stadiums with gleaming outfield grass, beer, another beer, maybe a a 3rd beer by the 7th......nothing in the lexicon of sporting entertainment in this country can match the participation in nostalgic yearning for an experience that is so much more than just "consuming" an individual game, team, or season. Baseball is one means for many people, hard fans or not,  of  simply reclaiming, for a few hours on any given summer day, the feeling of occupying simpler, purer, less complicated time. It's hard to define, but it's there. We might think those who connect ot baseball in this way do so in a shallower, less committed than the passionate fan, and therefore more susceptible to permanently turning away. But I would disagree. The depth of the loyalty is just different, and is socially and culturally based. Even for the hardest of hardcore fans, the idea of baseball can provoke a visceral nostalgia that is not interested in "the business" side of things. The less "business" intrudes on this increasingly rare space in the minds of the public, the better off will be baseball.

It just seems like this cultural cache is banked on by the practitioners of MLB as if it is an inexhaustible resource. It is their confident hedged bet played out against the possibility of alienating people with their unseemly PR warfare, and squabbles over things like pitch-clocks and the size of bases (what's up with that BTW-like WTH? The size of the bases? Really? I read something about injury concerns? Throwing a rock hard ball 100MPH at guy standing 60 ft distant is an injury concern too......I just don't get some of this. If anyone knows WTH the base size argument is about please enlighten me, I would be grateful.)

Moments like these will test their confidence. Maybe they're  right. People will come back, eventually, because baseball's strength is far deeper than dollars and cents, steroids, game times, juiced balls, etc....

This current moment though is damning of the powers that be, and a worrying sign, that owners and players alike,  see MLB more as a commodity, to be consumed, a brand to be built, corporately and individually. If that's all it is for these guys, its just a very sad thing indeed, because they are occupying a different universe than most of the rest of us.  It is way past time for owners, players, management, and agents to wake up to the reality that baseball is much more than a a business, or even a game. If they stepped out of their tightly built mental corporate and PR mental space, maybe they would find more common ground than they are able or willing to see right now. I'm just not holding my breath. Greed is greed, and stupid is stupid.

Baseball is not going to die. Kids are still playing and loving the sport, though the pool of young, talented athletes have almost undoubtedly diminished with soccer, football, and even lacrosse growing across the country. College baseball seems to be growing in popularity, which is great, and those players come from somewhere.

When this lockout ends, true baseball fans, including myself, will rejoice no matter how upset we are at this temporary stoppage. And while I have nothing to link to right now, I believe it's been shown that the average age of a MLB fan is growing. That means despite the fact kids are still playing, still playing in college, the youth of America is looking more and more towards football, basketball, other sports, or little interest in sports all together in favor of other activities. I've talked to my kids about baseball, forced them at times to listen to a game on the radio, and even taken them to a few games, or milb games, where they enjoyed the EXPERIENCE of a live game. But without a true love for the game, does the youth of today go and watch on their own? If and when there is no-one to "take/drag" them to a game, where do they find the "love" of the game?

The TV contacts are going to diminish. And then the owners will wonder whatever happened to interest and lost revenues. Still shocks and surprises me how little interest ownership has in GROWING the game and it's popularity vs clutching every last dollar they can today. Don't they increase monetary value if the sport grows? And don't they "get back" whatever they feel they "lose" by "giving in" to certain union demands?

I still find it darkly humorous that they can't see the NFL and NBA models for success and stubbornly refuse to adapt. Now, I do think ALL professional sports might be in for a rude awakening one of these days when fans can't afford to pay/attend as they used to, and corporations don't want to pay as much any longer for suites and bulk seating, but that is a different discussion for a different day.

The lockout and missed games  probably doesn't affect MLB short term, but it's division and lack of growth is going to have a long term affect that neither side seems to see or care about at this time.

10 hours ago, bldewald said:

So, in real terms for real people (not baseball owners) — You own a $20,000 car. It needs a $400 brake job.  Instead of fixing it so it is usable, you park it because it’s not worth fixing.  Sorry owners, you are an entirely new brand of stupid.  

The owners have done the following:
Agreed to increase the luxury tax cap proposal by 30%
Agreed to eliminate draft penalties for exceeding the cap.
Agreed to eliminate escalating cap penalties.
Agreed to eliminate qualifying offer draft pick penalties
Agreed to pre-arbitration bonus pool.
Agreed to increase the minimum salary.
Agreed to a draft lottery system.
Agreed to a age 29.5 maximum for free agency.
Agreed to grant draft pick compensation bonuses for not manipulating service time
Agreed to a $100MM payroll floor.

I continue to be bewildered by the hate directed at MLB owners.

Friends, All I know is I'm sitting in an Air BNB in Fort Myers, writing this. My wife and I drove 12 hours to get here from North Carolina because I had the foresight to order my spring training game tickets early to see the Twins play the Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox, all of which were cancelled last week. Stub Hub has refunded my ticket money, but I. could not get my Air BNB money back, so we came any way. So far my highlight has been watching Chase Petty  throw from a mound to a catcher (He has awesome speed, a wicked slider and most of all, control) He threw 90 % strikes. I know, I know it is practice and it is spring training, but many of the other pitchers were not throwing 50%  strikes.) Now back to my subject matter I'm still out the money for the place where we are staying, the cost of gas and the wear and tear on my car, eating out instead of preparing food  and $35 for a lousy tee shirt that says Twins Spring Training; My other Twins Spring Training shirts from years past have the year on them (2016, 2018, 2019), but not this years tee shirt. Not a single tee shirt at the Hammond Stadium gift shop had 2022 on it, I asked the sales lady why and she said the obvious..."The Twins did not want to get stuck with a lot of unsold tee shirts that can't be sold next year.."  I thought to myself, "When did the Twins order these tee shirts and why did the Twins figure there would be less people buying these shirts at Spring Training in 2022?" The gift shop today at Hammond Stadium was a sad sight. There few fans in it. There was one family of 4 from South Dakota and a couple from Minnesota and me.  It reminded me of a sad song Frank Sinatra sang called "There Used To be A Ballpark Here" .  I next asked the nice lady, who was in charge of the gift shop,  how this lockout has been affecting them. She told me it was especially hard on the concession vendors. I asked if they could draw unemployment of some sort and she said no. I asked how many people this affected and she told me 400. She told me the players association has put aside some money to help folks like this at spring training sites and those at major league sites who miss some weeks of the regular season.. That's nice, but  it should have been avoided. I am sad about this lockout and,  while I don't want to walk away from the Twins when this lockout time is over, it does make me feel down. especially when I think about what is the reason for this walkout. I my humble opinion it is greedy pride. which has precipitated this walkout. That's bad news for us baseball fans. But I put this baseball walkout mess into perspective for myself, when I thought about this:  1) My family and I and most of my friends, who chose to listen to our doctors and health care professionals, don't have to fear Covid like we did the last two years because we have been vaccinated and vaccines are readily available for others who want them, and 2) we're not cold and hungry and living in a Ukrainian subway station with our children to escape Russian artillery. When I think of Covid and the poor people of Ukrainian, it makes grateful to be sitting in an AirBNB at Fort Myers with my beautiful wife, enjoying the beautiful weather, the bright green of the leaves on the trees and bushes, spring breezes,  the variety of sub-tropical birds at Ding Darling Wildlife refuge, the BBQ at Mission BBQ and a chance tomorrow to visit with a really good man who was one of my lieutenants in the army in 1968, Plus Chase Petty sure can pitch. 

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

I continue to be bewildered by the hate directed at MLB owners.

I'm not sure about others but speaking just for myself, there is no hatred. The example of the car is actually fair. The owners are faced with an increased expenditure of near $5 million per team. This, of course, could easily be absorbed into the budget because there is not any minimum for team salary. The Twins, for example,  could easily field a team with a budget of $90-110 million this year. While I might have prepared a different set of requests for the players than the PA, the power play by the owners is unnecessary because they win no matter the outcome of a new CBA. The lockout (various people have incorrectly called it a strike or walkout) should have been resolved already and maybe it will be tomorrow. The effect on fans is a net negative towards baseball for the most part. The comments that refer to research that shows baseball losing out among younger people is not necessarily a good preview for future growth of the game. Both sides seem adrift on growing the game, but the onus for the current situation does lie with the owners because they precipitated a lockout.

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

I'm not sure about others but speaking just for myself, there is no hatred. The example of the car is actually fair. The owners are faced with an increased expenditure of near $5 million per team. This, of course, could easily be absorbed into the budget because there is not any minimum for team salary. The Twins, for example,  could easily field a team with a budget of $90-110 million this year. While I might have prepared a different set of requests for the players than the PA, the power play by the owners is unnecessary because they win no matter the outcome of a new CBA. The lockout (various people have incorrectly called it a strike or walkout) should have been resolved already and maybe it will be tomorrow. The effect on fans is a net negative towards baseball for the most part. The comments that refer to research that shows baseball losing out among younger people is not necessarily a good preview for future growth of the game. Both sides seem adrift on growing the game, but the onus for the current situation does lie with the owners because they precipitated a lockout.

Just $5MM, eh? Is that all? Except the MLBPA is trying to remove $200-300MM from revenue sharing which, combined with the additional $5MM you're guessing at here would put a bunch of teams in MLB underwater in terms of operating income.

The MLBPA has requested an additional $80MM for just the pre-arbitration players (roughly $3MM per team). MLB has already proposed an increased expenditure of $150MM for arbitration eligible players (roughly $5MM per team), though I'm not sure where that is at this point. Then there is the minimum salary increase proposed by the MLBPA which will cost each team approximately $3MM per team. That's $11MM per team in payroll right there. Seeing a reduction of $10MM in revenue sharing for the smaller market teams coupled with $11MM in additional expenditures sees an overall operating income swing of $21MM. That's catastrophic... You're talking pure expenses with zero revenue to offset it, and topping it off with a shortened season. 

If you don't understand how ludicrous the MLBPA's asks are, you're not doing the math or looking at the big picture.

Love all the comments and well thought out and researched ideas out there.  I agree with all of the views.  My view is not very analytical ( I hate it in baseball.  It's ruining the game) it just always seems the fans are left out in the cold.  I've followed MLB for nearly 60 years and the last several years the game has become unwatchable.  It's like watching a giant video game.  Bring back the game we all used to love.  I found many other things to do in the covid shortened year in 2020.  They will resume play at some point. How many more fans will they alienate and turn away from the game?  It's obvious neither the players or owners care.  That's the fatal flaw here.  It could be disastorus.