"Unwritten Rule" Gets Max Kepler Hit By A Pitch

 

  On 8/16/2019 at 8:08 PM, JLease said:

So your issue is how sportsmanship is enforced in baseball?

 

Do you agree with the unwritten rule that you don't swing at a 3-0 pitch late in a blowout? And do you believe that's an appropriate display of sportsmanship?

 

I'm honestly curious what people think on some of this.

 

Rather than the whole "unwritten rules" business, let's just give teams the right to 'call it" ... let the Ranger say "enough, we can call off the game now."

 

But they won't do that, will they?

 

So instead, we're supposed to go through this charade of "playing out the game," even though the team that's ahead has to "really not try 100%" to get hits and score runs.

 

Question ... why didn't the Ranger hitters just go up and swing & miss at every pitch at the end, to get the game over with?  Why were they still trying to get hits and score runs, if the game was over?

 

If Kepler had been hit in the head, or on the wrist, and been injured so he'd miss time, this would be a whole lot bigger deal.

 

The "unwritten rules" are all about "pride."  Yeah, well ... "excessive pride" causes all sorts of problems. 

 

Don't want to give up hits on 3-0 counts?  Throw strikes. 

 

  On 8/16/2019 at 7:54 PM, wavedog said:

  If they are still playing full force why can't both teams?   I mean otherwise just have a slaughter rule and call the game.     

If the Rangers had told the Twins they were going to stop trying to win the game then the Twins would also have stopped trying and Rocco would have told Cave not to try to get a hit. But since that didn't happen Cave was justified in doing what he did. And the Rangers' pitcher and manager should have been ejected

The bigger concern in my mind, at least based on what the radio guys discussed tonight, is not that Cave swung but that Cave apparently missed a take sign.

 

Dude -- if you're worried about playing time, missing signs ain't going to help you. 

 

  On 8/16/2019 at 9:41 PM, Twinsoholic said:

Notice that Bremer and Smalley were surprised Cave swung 3 and 0. They know the "rule." Tommy Watkins knows the "rule"--that's why he said something to Cave at first base. Cave knows the "rule"--he likely had the count wrong in his mind at that time, so he swung the bat at the pitch. 

Who cares?  This is just foolish.  A batter should go for a hit no matter the score

 

Interesting Article about "blowouts"  .... https://sports.yahoo.com/yankees-manager-aaron-boone-would-favor-mlb-mercy-rule-and-hes-not-off-base-004158370.html?fbclid=IwAR1s3AJZuQmAo5VpCYgetvbxtpWonEGRpcQwCef5t2t6ZnP1WvYJgYkvm0Q

Seems a generational gap here. Lol. I had the opposite experience in coaching a Legion game. We were completely outmanned by a team that had been in the state high school tourney that year. They were up ten, we had one AB left before the "mercy rule" kicked in. They tried to squeeze a run in from third. I didn't go tell that coach to keep trying, I told him to look at the damn scoreboard! And I asked him what the hell he thought he was doing. Some here think an unwritten rule is poor sportsmanship. So what is piling on? While I give Cave credit for apologizing, he was an idiot. And I bet that's exactly what he got told at 1B. Does anyone remember a few years ago when someone on the Twins did something comparatively stupid, the next guy got plunked. He didn't go after the pitcher, he went into the dugout after his teammate. Well played! I went to one of my 11 year old grandsons games this summer. The other team was far more talented, and rightfully was overwhelmingly ahead. Easily past a ten run lead. And they just kept stealing base after base, and scoring on passed balls. The only thing those opposing players learned that day was the unwritten rule of arrogance.

 

  On 8/17/2019 at 2:25 AM, Platoon said:

Seems a generational gap here. Lol. I had the opposite experience in coaching a Legion game. We were completely outmanned by a team that had been in the state high school tourney that year. They were up ten, we had one AB left before the "mercy rule" kicked in. They tried to squeeze a run in from third. I didn't go tell that coach to keep trying, I told him to look at the damn scoreboard! And I asked him what the hell he thought he was doing. Some here think an unwritten rule is poor sportsmanship. So what is piling on? While I give Cave credit for apologizing, he was an idiot. And I bet that's exactly what he got told at 1B. Does anyone remember a few years ago when someone on the Twins did something comparatively stupid, the next guy got plunked. He didn't go after the pitcher, he went into the dugout after his teammate. Well played! I went to one of my 11 year old grandsons games this summer. The other team was far more talented, and rightfully was overwhelmingly ahead. Easily past a ten run lead. And they just kept stealing base after base, and scoring on passed balls. The only thing those opposing players learned that day was the unwritten rule of arrogance.

 

World of difference between 11 year olds, where there can be wild disparities in talent, and MLB, where there isn't.

 

Plunking Kepler because the guy before him swung at a 3-0 pitch is ridiculous.  Throw at Cave next time you get the chance, if it's that big a deal - but it shouldn't be.

 

The Rangers were down 8 because "they earned it."  That's not the Twins fault.   If they wanted to walk off the field and say "no mas," that's what they should do - otherwise, don't throw a pitch and expect the batter not to try.

 

  On 8/16/2019 at 10:44 PM, ScrapTheNickname said:

It is a common sense unwritten rule. You're up 8 in the 9th and the count is 3-0. You don't swing. Cave swung. The next better Kepler got beaned in the gentlest of possible ways. Kepler didn't get mad. Baldelli didn't get mad. It's baseball. This is how baseball is played. It's a great unwritten rule.

I disagree.  It is not a sport unless you compete. That means try on every single pitch. 

 

  On 8/17/2019 at 2:59 AM, gunnarthor said:

Man, I would hate having someone that intense teaching kids. The opposing coach did the right thing.

Yeah, when I coached and my team  was up by a winning margin we stopped running. But we still hit away. To do less is to sacrifice your integrity.  The game wants you to try every play. 

 

 

Dumb play by a young guy followed by a harmless plunking of Kepler. Professionals policing themselves. Much ado about nothing.

Well fortunately Caves Career wont be derailed by taking a 3-0 cookie in an 8 run game. More likely that will come if he keeps diving at sinking liners 6' from his glove?

I think it has been proven that the Twins need EVERY run they can get.....

My take on this situation is a little different. To me, you take a 3-0 pitch in a close game because the pitcher is having trouble finding the strike zone and you want him to work for an out. In a lop-sided game, swing away. Cave is likely to get a hit about once in four tries so the odds are in Texas' favor if he swings.

 

As for "unwritten rules", write them down so everyone knows what they are. Or if they are too embarrassing to write down, get rid of them.

To quote Herm Edwards, " You play to win the game!". It's not "you play to uphold unwritten rules that have been in the game before black players were allowed to play and before HRs were hit at record paces". 

 

Should Cave have taken a pitch? probably, but he saw a pitch to hit, and he did, thats the point of the game. Hitting Kep, who literally had nothing to do with that, is just ridiculous. If unwritten rules were worth anything, they'd be written down

 

 

  On 8/17/2019 at 6:09 AM, jkcarew said:

Dumb play by a young guy followed by a harmless plunking of Kepler. Professionals policing themselves. Much ado about nothing.

 

Turned out that way, thank goodness.  If he'd hit Kepler in the head or the wrist and he wound up missing significant time as a result, it wouldn't be.

Writing down the unwritten rules would make them written. This would seemingly reduce the passion that the unwritten rules seem to generate. The baseball rule book is thick enough and confusing enough as is. You can't write every little thing down. . Bottom line I bet every sport has unwritten rules. But since I wasn't engrained in any other sport I don't know any. But they are out there, lurking, waiting to be enforced on the unsuspecting! Speaking of unsuspecting, I bet none of Rocco, Cave, Kepler, the 1B coach, nor the umpire were unsuspecting when Kep got pegged. They just moved up a base, and discussed it later.

I think AL pitchers especially, should never get involved in this kind of unwritten justice. How do you retaliate against them? They don’t stand in the box. And if an eight run lead is in surmountable then just forfeit the game and go home, or you you’re tired of the other team scoring so much then stop them. That pitcher should have been ejected and fined

So many good posts I had to quit "liking" them and skim.

 

If Cave actually did something wrong, or felt he did, his apology should have ended it. Throwing a hard object at someone who had nothing to do with the situation is childish, poor sportsmanship, and borders on mild assault.

 

To lay down and not try...as I guess Cave was supposed to do...is ridiculous. He didn't hunt or steal a base...he hit a 3-0 pitch down the middle for a hit.

 

In the heyday of my Cornhuskers destroying other teams, they would run up yardage and the score using 2nd, 3rd and sometimes even 4th team players. They quit throwing the ball and they never ran trick plays or fakes. But they also didn't instruct the reserves to quit playing and not try.

 

I guess Cave should have just stood there with his bat on his shoulder and waited for a BB or called SO? Come to think of it, that's probably what the rest of the team should have done, just stand there and let the pitcher do what he wanted. Just ridiculous!

  On 8/17/2019 at 6:08 PM, gunnarthor said:

Every sport has unwritten rules and in every sport they boil down to 'respect your opponent and 'respect the game.'

And since respecting opponent and game are part of the game then Cave should have showed his respect and taken that pitch, as he would have in almost every other AB he has ever taken as a pro. He ain't the kind of hitter who gets a green light. But since that's turned into an intractable discussion, I yeild the rest of my time.