Nelson Cruz and the Twins' Biggest Mistake in History

Big Papi?

...Too soon.

Fun to read. But..... I don't see how 2003 ties Cruz and Ortiz together..... at all.

Career production, last season production, regression and projection all indicate we should see pretty much the same Cruz, give or take a little, we saw in 2019. Just allowing for father time, I'd expect some regression and a few more games played to see him post very similar numbers next year.

Now, Cruz could just decide enough is enough and retire after 2020. Be could also decide he wants to chase some numbers and feel like he's ready to play some more. That would put him in a year to year situation, IMO. Could put he and the Twins in an interesting position come the end of next year. But, that is a discussion for a very distant time and place.

I get the Papi reference, and while comparison is natural, the re-tread of a Ryan mistake made 16yrs ago just needs to stop. Whole careers have been made since that time.

I think that Cruz will probably choose when to retire, rather than have it forced on him.  He seems like a great guy and a smart athlete so his regression should be slower.  Having said that, we should all be rubbing our lucky rabbits feet in fear that it’s all because of some steroid.

I also think that mentioning David Ortiz in this current climate where Twins Daily readers are insanely frustrated with the Twins front office’s decisions shows a lack of emotional intelligence.  You gotta “read the room”!!

I haven't thought about the DH in a long time, but now that Martinez is in the hall and Ortiz will be and Molitor was more DH that position I look at the Cruz figures and I am delighted to have him on the team, but where would these players have been in those old pre-DH days?  Not in the HOF.  

I just read the Athletic article on Mariano Rivera in the excellent series on the top 100 players by Joe Posnanski and a number of quotes stand out," Mariano Rivera became the first player elected unanimously by the BBWAA into the Baseball Hall of Fame, and many people were horrified by that, making the fair point that Rivera’s 56.3 career WAR was roughly the same as non-Hall of Famers Dave Stieb, Jerry Koosman and Kevin Appier, and that he threw a thousand or so fewer innings than Ron Guidry, Stieb, Bret Saberhagen and numerous others whose careers were deemed too short to be Hall of Fame worthy."

Mariano was a failed starter as so many relievers are yet we are starting to put in more relievers than starters.  "None of this would have been an option in Tom Seaver’s time or Warren Spahn’s time or Satchel Paige’s time or Walter Johnson’s time. The closer role was invented just in time for Rivera, and Rivera’s one pitch was created just in time for the closer role."

I wonder what Joe will writer about the DHs - and if any will make it in the top 100.  They certainly would not for me, but then, neither would the relievers.  

I just hope when Nelly retires the Twins keep him as a coach. It would be cool to always see him in the dugout or at 1st or 3rd! He is a positive influence on this whole team and just fun to watch play the game!

Anyone think Cruz could make it to the HoF? I think if he has a 2020 like the projections say, and another decent year after that, it's possible. 

He's at 401 HRs...if he manages to have 3 more good years, (probably a stretch), he could get to 500. I think that's probably the only way he definitely gets in. 

There is the steroid thing, but that doesn't seem to get brought up a lot with him. 

Big Papi wouldn’t be the Big Papi we know if he stayed with the Twins, for a few reasons:

1). He openly called out the hitting approach the Twins coaches at the time. He may not have developed into the same hitter. Until recently, the Twins as a franchise have been one of the most inept in baseball at developing power hitters since at least the early 90s.

2). He’s known for his postseason, notably World Series, heroics. We’ve seen how the Twins approach the goal of Winning a World Series. If they had kept Big Papi long-term, they wouldn’t have paid one of either Mauer or Morneau. They certainly wouldn’t have gone out and obtained the pitching necessary. Big Papi would have only a handful of postseason ABs, and zero World Series ABs.

3). I’m sure this will ridiculed by the deluded, but he never would’ve been hooked up with the same pharmacist, if you get my drift. Add that into playing a lot of game in the dome/Target Field, his numbers could like drastically different.

Twins fans may know him as a great player. But, there is no chance, IMO, that Big Papi is anywhere near the legend he is now if he stayed here.

The Twins biggest mistake ever has been repeating itself numerous times since the year 2000. They don’t participate in free agency/the trade market. We’re seeing them urinate away another great team right now, like they did the Mauer/Morneau squads. If they would attempt to properly supplement their homegrown prospects, maybe we’d be talking about Mauer as a postseason legend like Papi (is there anyone in Twins’, maybe MLB history, you’d rather have at the plate with the season on the line and RISP than Joe in his prime?).

In fact, if he had stayed here he may be reviled by many like Joe Mayer for hogging the payroll and losing a million playoff games in a row.

Uhhh... what about the wrist? He snapped a tendon. Elected not to have surgery. He winces frequently on whiffs. I don't know how much effect it will have over a full season, but probably considerable, imo.

Big Papi wouldn’t be the Big Papi we know if he stayed with the Twins, for a few reasons:

You’re probably right, for all the reasons that you mention.  We needed him to play a certain way because he was such a huge part of the offence (and the whole “swing-away” cookie cutter approach to hitting that we used back then), but the BoSox already had great hitters so they just told him to swing away and he found his comfort zone.  I imagine that he took something as well, given the times, but people forget that he was actually a sensitive introspective guy with the Twins and so he just wasn’t ever relaxed enough to just do his thing.

So, with that in mind, what if we were to transport ourselves to a parallel dimension where the Twins are able to unlock his ability, but just in a “Twins Way” ala Morneau or Mayer or Cuddyer, and he spends his career in Minnesota.  Forget salaries and all that....what kind of player do people thing he would have turned out to be??

Still Big Papi-esque?

300 hitting singles and doubles hitter?

A little bit of each?

Fun to read. But..... I don't see how 2003 ties Cruz and Ortiz together..... at all.

Way back in the day I do believe they called it "creative writing".