Michael Pineda Provides Upgrade Over Recent Fifth Starters

$8 million to Pineda. $620K to Berrios. The inadequacies of the Players' Union's agreement. Pineda was the 4th starter at the beginning of season, no? I hope he continues to pitch better. Both he and Perez need upgrades for a playoff run, I think. They woud be great depth.

$8 million to Pineda. $620K to Berrios. The inadequacies of the Players' Union's agreement. Pineda was the 4th starter at the beginning of season, no? I hope he continues to pitch better. Both he and Perez need upgrades for a playoff run, I think. They woud be great depth.

Exactly. They can’t both be the 5 starter. Right now, Perez is trending the wrong way after a good start. In the playoffs, I could see a situation where they would piggyback, each going once through the order.

But a better option would be someone who could successfully navigate a lineup 2 or 3 times by himself.

Either Pineda or Perez could become bullpen pieces if another starter or two is acquired before the trade deadline. Both have pitched from the pen in the recent past.

I like Big Mike. He keeps getting better. I believe this will prove to be a good signing even if he ends up being our 8th inning guy in October. Perez same - except he isn't getting better right now. For us to end up playing in October, I see both these guys in the pen. Last nights game was playoff baseball and in playoff baseball, pitching beats hitting. We need reinforcements and everyone knows it. 

Either Pineda or Perez could become bullpen pieces if another starter or two is acquired before the trade deadline. Both have pitched from the pen in the recent past.

Pineda has never pitched in relief at the MLB level. Other than his rehab last year, the last time Pineda relieved in the minors was 2009.

More important are the upgrades at the #1, #2, #3, and #4 slots.

I thought we were looking at least a four, if not a three. But, the very instant I first saw Pineda on the mound this spring, I lowered my expectations. I found myself less concerned with his pitches than with the possibility that he would injure himself simply navigating around the mound or experience some type of cardiac event.

10 short weeks later, he's in a position to exceed my lowered expectations.

If Pineda throws around 130-140 innings of 4.50 ERA we break even on his contract. I don't think he should be much over 150 for the year tops. He will probably have another IL stint and maybe some time in the pen to help limit his innings.

I don't think the Twins need to go out and add a starter as we have plenty of fill one during his IL times.

Meh, as a back end starter he isn't high on the list of concerns. I wasn't expecting a ton from him this season either. I'd certainly rather have Pineda than Tommy Milone or Bartolo Colon but we're setting the bar pretty low there...

If Pineda throws around 130-140 innings of 4.50 ERA we break even on his contract. I don't think he should be much over 150 for the year tops. He will probably have another IL stint and maybe some time in the pen to help limit his innings.

 

I don't think the Twins need to go out and add a starter as we have plenty of fill one during his IL times.

Who would that be exactly? So far Smeltzer is the only one they brought up that has done well. There’s really no starters at AAA doing well.

I believe that is called damning with faint praise. I don't think we need to keep finding these Minnesota nice descriptions for players that aren't performing as they should. When Pineda was signed I believe they look at him to possibly be the number two not the number five. With Perez struggling now the team needs to look real hard at at least one more starting pitcher as well as relief pitching support.

Calling someone the “No. 5” starter is somewhat a function of the health of the rest of the rotation. This year, the Twins have been fortunate in only needing four starts outside of Berrios-Odo-Gibson-Perez-Pineda, and two of those four starts were Stewart’s 26th-man starts.

So while I see what you did in using the guy with the fifth-most starts as your comparison poin, that’s not completely accurate. For example, last year Romero started 11 times, but he was really only the No. 5 starter for the six weeks or so when he was in the rotation with Lance Lynn. For a few starts, he was actually the No. 4.

In reality, the No. 5 starter last year was the amalgamation of most of Romero’s starts, plus the starts from Kohl Stewart, Gabriel Moya, Ervin Santana, Stephen Gonsalves, Adalberto Mejia, Chase DeJong and a few others.

So yeah, I’ll take 2019 Pineda over that cohort.

And the same would apply to the partial seasons of Colon and Milone. In 2018 Colon had the fifth-highest number of starts, but during a good part of his time with the Twins he was really the No. 4 starter behind Santana, Gibson, and Berrios, with guys like Dillon Gee, Adalberto Mejia, and Felix Jorge serving as the No. 5. The No. 5 starter comparison for that year should also include Ryan Tepesch and Phil Hughes.

I’ll take Pineda over that cohort as well.

The bottom line is that Pineda’s ERA+ is currently 89. Take out three late-April starts and he’s probably over 100. If he pitches to a 100 ERA+ for another 15-18 starts and is outpitched by Perez, Pineda will very much have been an outstanding No. 5.

He really impressed today. He just went about his business like a professional.

Meh. Pineda only managed to pitch 35% of the innings last night.

You're right. I guess we'll move him to the pen.

We signed him and paid him for an injury recovery year in addition to this pitching year. I think we had expectations.

Calling someone the “No. 5” starter is somewhat a function of the health of the rest of the rotation. This year, the Twins have been fortunate in only needing four starts outside of Berrios-Odo-Gibson-Perez-Pineda, and two of those four starts were Stewart’s 26th-man starts.

 

So while I see what you did in using the guy with the fifth-most starts as your comparison poin, that’s not completely accurate. For example, last year Romero started 11 times, but he was really only the No. 5 starter for the six weeks or so when he was in the rotation with Lance Lynn. For a few starts, he was actually the No. 4.

 

In reality, the No. 5 starter last year was the amalgamation of most of Romero’s starts, plus the starts from Kohl Stewart, Gabriel Moya, Ervin Santana, Stephen Gonsalves, Adalberto Mejia, Chase DeJong and a few others.

 

So yeah, I’ll take 2019 Pineda over that cohort.

 

And the same would apply to the partial seasons of Colon and Milone. In 2018 Colon had the fifth-highest number of starts, but during a good part of his time with the Twins he was really the No. 4 starter behind Santana, Gibson, and Berrios, with guys like Dillon Gee, Adalberto Mejia, and Felix Jorge serving as the No. 5. The No. 5 starter comparison for that year should also include Ryan Tepesch and Phil Hughes.

 

I’ll take Pineda over that cohort as well.

 

The bottom line is that Pineda’s ERA+ is currently 89. Take out three late-April starts and he’s probably over 100. If he pitches to a 100 ERA+ for another 15-18 starts and is outpitched by Perez, Pineda will very much have been an outstanding No. 5.

Doesn’t seem likely that Pineda will be outpitched by Perez.

Since the start of May, Pineda has made 8 starts. He’s pitched at least 5 innings in all of them, at least 6 in 5 of them. He’s given up 3 runs or fewer in all of them. In short, he has given the Twins a chance to win all those games.

Since May 12, Perez has made 7 starts. He’s allowed 4 or more runs in 4 of them, 5 or more in 3. He failed to get through 5 innings in 2 of those starts and failed to get through 3 innings once. That’s not a good stretch and it is an alarming trend.