3 Players That Could Surprisingly Help the 2022 Twins

I'm hoping that Celestino has NO impact during the 2022 season.  That would mean Buxton has stayed healthy and in center field.  But.....  I also think that Celestino will do very well if he is called up regardless of the reason.

I agree Celestino could be an important piece regardless of whether Buxton is hurt or not but I think we need another half season at St. Paul to really see if he is ready.  He would take on even more importance if Kepler is traded as he would normally spell Buxton on occasion in CF.  As for Gordon, it is easy to pull for this kid, but if the Twins think Martin is MLB ready, he would be a better choice as he could play all over as well and has a better bat.  But, if trades are on the horizon, Martin, Celestino, Jeffers, Garver and others may be gone, so it is really a crap shoot trying to predict who is going to be where this season.  Good topic, Cody.  It is fun to noodle these things.

4 minutes ago, Karbo said:

With no ss on the roster I wonder what the coaches have seen that sour them on giving Gordon a shot. He played there his entire minor league career so there must be some flaw they see. Anyone know what it is?

I've been looking for that answer since they brought him up. It remains one of the many mysteries of Rocco player management. You'd think a guy who spent his entire minor league career being schooled by Twins coaches on how to play shortstop would at least be capable enough to fill in at that position, especially since he can play a decent centerfield. I don't know... does he have the yips at short? Forgets to tie his shoes? Passes gas? Doesn't have a high spin rate on his throws to first? Come on, somebody answer that so I can stop kicking the dog ( I don't have one - maybe that's the problem) and sleep nights again.

You crossed the line, Cody, with your comment about Rortvedt..."His hit tool will never make him an everyday catcher."  Unless you are the Supreme Being, you don't know that.  You did a great job explaining why Celestino's bat failed in his initial callup.  Wasn't Rortvedt in the same situation? 

Will Ben ever be a great hitter? Will he become a good enough hitter, when combined with his defense, to be a solid major league starter?  Will he never hit enough to be more than a solid backup? 

You could be right, but the truth is we don't know.  Would prefer if you and other writers would stay away from absolute comments about young players before they have the opportunity to get it done on the field. 

Unless there are trades all three of these players are essential to 2022.  Celestino should be the fourth outfielder.  Gordon showed he can step up.  Rortvedt is the obvious #3 catcher and they often need a call up for injury.  What I hope is that they do not go backwards and reinstall Jake Cave.  

With no changes there is no option but to put Polanco at SS and I think Gordon is his backup.  The OF should have Larnach, Buxton, Kepler and Celestino should be back up.  Second base is Arraez/Polanco/Gordon/Miranda.  3B Donaldson/Arraez/Miranda and 1B Kiriloff/Sano with DH Sano/Rooker/Donaldson and Catcher Garver/Jeffers - Rortvedt.  

I would like to see Miranda get more ABs, but this would require a trade.   The question I would have for the three of them is - will one of them become the LaMonte Wade of 2022.

17 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Unless there are trades all three of these players are essential to 2022.  Celestino should be the fourth outfielder.  Gordon showed he can step up.  Rortvedt is the obvious #3 catcher and they often need a call up for injury.  What I hope is that they do not go backwards and reinstall Jake Cave.  

With no changes there is no option but to put Polanco at SS and I think Gordon is his backup.  The OF should have Larnach, Buxton, Kepler and Celestino should be back up.  Second base is Arraez/Polanco/Gordon/Miranda.  3B Donaldson/Arraez/Miranda and 1B Kiriloff/Sano with DH Sano/Rooker/Donaldson and Catcher Garver/Jeffers - Rortvedt.  

I would like to see Miranda get more ABs, but this would require a trade.   The question I would have for the three of them is - will one of them become the LaMonte Wade of 2022.

Curious what you meant by your LaMonte Wade comment, mike?

Are you wondering which of the three will step up and become a solid major league player?  Or did you mean that, unfortunately for another team?

I believe that the experience gained in 2021 by Ben Rortvedt will help him immensely in 2022. 

I think Gordon will have the biggest potential impact with the team.  Mainly it is based on the fact that he can play most positions.  He may be asked to step in at CF when Buxton is hurt, fill in different infield spots too.  He has a history of slow adaption to each level, but has always grown and been good at each level when healthy. 

Hoping all 3 improve over last season. Chances are it will only be 1 or 2 that will get better.

As far as helping the Twins Celestino could have the biggest impact. With LF still open and the Buxton injury bug always just around the corner, we really don't want to see Jake Cave getting significant time anywhere in the outfield, so let's hope Celestino can fill some shoes. I agree with the points on Gordon... why can't he play SS at the major league level? Have been wondering that since he was brought up and Simmons did nothing at the plate. I consider Rortvedt a second coming of Drew Butera. Great defensively but will probably never contribute much with the bat. I'd like to see him prove me wrong.

Like Gordon as utility, can play everywhere but 1B and C, but limited upside. Rortvedt blocked unless a trade or injury, bat questionable. Celestino looks to be potential 4th OF with Kirilloff potentially moving to 1B and Sano DH, Of the 3, Gordon may make biggest impact this year since likely on opening day roster.

Between Gordon, Martin, and Lewis. Our SS is in the organization. If none of those 3 can handle it at the major league level, then it is a failure of epic proportions with the amount of draft and trade capital used to acquire those guys. 

I guess it depends on the definition of helpful. Does getting to play because there are no other options count as helpful.

At this point all three are on the 40 man, so if something happens to somebody they should get a chance, Combined last year they played in 135 for a negative WAR, but it seemed helpful because the Twins had nobody else.

Based on the lineup MikeLink45 above these 3 are or should be counted as plan B for injuries or being terrible. The sad part is I don't see a plan C. The Twins can't trade Kepler until AK, Larnach or Celestino prove they are capable otherwise the Twins could have the worst OF in the majors no matter how good Buxton is, Can't trade Garver until you know Jeffers has it figured out, because that turns what is considered a strength into a hole in the lineup. Can't trade Donaldson because if Miranda doesn't pan out, they have no back up 3B, unless you want an infield with Arraez at 3B, Gordon at SS and Polanco at 2b, and Sano at first. And the biggest problem of all is there isn't much if any room on the 40 to replace offense.

In the end I will say Gordon he seems like the most likely to be on the Twins opening day.

I think those are interesting choices, however, if Rooker has been working on his defense this winter, and continues to improve his routes and his throws, he could be a surprise fixture in left field. He'd certainly be better than Delmon Young and Josh Willingham.

3 hours ago, roger said:

Curious what you meant by your LaMonte Wade comment, mike?

Are you wondering which of the three will step up and become a solid major league player?  Or did you mean that, unfortunately for another team?

I meant for another team.  I see Gordon as a candidate with Martin and Miranda coming up he is redundant, but we have not really given him a chance to unlock his talent.  Another team might plug him in and let him become more than a failed draft choice.  I do not see them moving on Rortvedt for a while until other catchers start coming up to push him.  I see him as a Drew Butera.  He will not start for us, but could have a good career with a few teams.  Celestino is the one that I think has a longer career and more successful, but not like Wade because I think we know that he can be good and the FO really values the players they sign or trade for.  In the long run if Buxton stays healthy he could be involved as part of a trade in three years. 

6 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

I'm hoping that Celestino has NO impact during the 2022 season.  That would mean Buxton has stayed healthy and in center field.  But.....  I also think that Celestino will do very well if he is called up regardless of the reason.

I feel, unless the Twins go out and get someone different, we will see A LOT of Celestino in CF. Buxton can not and will not ever stay healthy enough to play fulltime. If these two stay on the Twins going forward, I see Celestino being the "starting" CF'er based on number of games played; by a BIG margin!

5 hours ago, RJA said:

he would normally spell Buxton on occasion in CF. 

LOL, he will be spelling Buxton for about 100+ games per season!?

4 minutes ago, Kipp35 said:

LOL, he will be spelling Buxton for about 100+ games per season!?

Boy, aren't you Mr. Optimistic :).

Rortvedt is our best defensive catcher hands down.  With Mitch getting older and all the injuries behind the plate I can see the Twins trying to give him time at 1st and DH when it makes sense. Jeffers is still a work in progress with the bat as well and a tandum of lefty Rortvedt and righty Jeffers seems like the future to me.  Catchers get hurt a lot so having three guys who can be play there is good.  I like that we have Rortvedt in the wings and I bet he will play a fair bit this coming year.

Still not in love with Gordons somewhat wimpy bat but he is very plug and play and one of the few guys with any speed on this team so he has a solid role.  Like others have mentioned I am not so sure how long he will have that role with an even better player in Martin likely being ready soon.  We will see what happens and I hope Nick proves me wrong but I think he could be a trade candidate at some point.

Celestino is the one we need to succeed because we need Buxton and right field insurance.  If he can prove he belongs that will be huge for this team to have another plus runner and decent bat in the outfield.  He has a place ready on the team if he can prove he belongs.  We don't have anyone else with his skillset close to ready so we really need him to be successful and make it.

I think all three guys will help this team quite a bit if they can improve on what they did last year.

1 minute ago, RJA said:

Boy, aren't you Mr. Optimistic :).

Just Mr. Reality. I would LOVE to see him play a full season, but what from his past shows that will ever happen?

20 minutes ago, Kipp35 said:

Just Mr. Reality. I would LOVE to see him play a full season, but what from his past shows that will ever happen?

Yea, I hear you.  I'm frustrated as well.  Maybe this will be the year.  

1 hour ago, Kipp35 said:

I feel, unless the Twins go out and get someone different, we will see A LOT of Celestino in CF. Buxton can not and will not ever stay healthy enough to play fulltime. If these two stay on the Twins going forward, I see Celestino being the "starting" CF'er based on number of games played; by a BIG margin!

I would bet just about anything that Buxton will play start and play more games in CF than Celestino.  Care to wager?  

7 hours ago, roger said:

You crossed the line, Cody, with your comment about Rortvedt..."His hit tool will never make him an everyday catcher."  Unless you are the Supreme Being, you don't know that.  You did a great job explaining why Celestino's bat failed in his initial callup.  Wasn't Rortvedt in the same situation? 

Will Ben ever be a great hitter? Will he become a good enough hitter, when combined with his defense, to be a solid major league starter?  Will he never hit enough to be more than a solid backup? 

You could be right, but the truth is we don't know.  Would prefer if you and other writers would stay away from absolute comments about young players before they have the opportunity to get it done on the field. 

His minor league stats would be an indication of his hit tool.  A career OPS of somewhere around .650 would make it very very very rare he could ever get to league average for a catcher

At some point all 3 of these guys are going to be and contribute, even assuming/hoping Buxton escapes bad injury as is good for 120+ games. (He's not the only OF that could end up hurt at some point after all).

Celestino's floor, IMO, is that of a valuable and versatile 4th OF who provides a bit of everything. His ceiling is a solid/quality starting OF who again provides a bit of everything. The question is just how well and consistently he hits, gets OB and how much pop/power he develops. I think he's got a nice future either way. Hopefully he's not needed for a couple of months so he can continue the groove he had to end 2021 at AAA.

I think Rortvedt is being understood a bit as a hitter, and I hope I'm correct on that. He's never been old for any level he's played at and he has shown some growth as a batter and some gradual improvement at each level. He's had some poor BA performances and some decent ones. In 2019 he got half a season at AA and was OK at .239/.332/.355/.687. Acceptable for a young 21yo, defense first catcher, but not exactly anything to salivate over. But still, only 21yo at AA. Obviously he missed 2020. As a 23yo he was forced to play more, and early than probably expected, at the ML level due to Garver's surgery. I think it speaks to the Twins belief in him they passed over the veteran Telis in favor of him. His numbers at AAA were just fine for a young player getting his first sampling of that level. I have no clue how good of a hitter he may become, or how much XB power he might develop despite being a strong and well built young man, but he's shown enough improvement level to level in his milb career to believe he isn't done growing yet. I think he's going to be better than just a defensive catcher wit some pop who only hits .190. Even if he only becomes a .225-.230ish hitter with defense and power he can be a valuable piece. I am hoping for a bit more, but I'd take that kind of production from my #2 catcher. Like Celestino, the best scenario for him is ML health and he can sit at St Paul most of the year and just work on his bat and gain additional experience, filling in when necessary.

Barring a poor ST I think Gordon is a lock for opening day. No need to rehash missing 2020 entirely due to covid and the weight/strength loss that he couldn't afford. While never a great hitter or OB guy at any level, he seldom embarrassed himself and showed improvement at every level he's played at. Despite looking like he was in a uniform a size too large with the Twins in 2021 he again didn't embarrass himself despite pedestrian numbers. His bat is quick enough to turn on and drive a pitch once in a while. If he gains weight/strength back and gains a little more plateawareness, wch has been his previous MO, he might actually be a fairly decent hitter for the super-utility role it looks like his destination will be. And there is real worth in that despite disappointment in his initial draft status. I love his speed when on base and was completely surprised at how well he learned CF/OF on the fly, despite some bumps in the road. He and Kepler can both provide some backup CF play for a Buxton day off provided it's not extended. That could mean an extra bat is kept.

And I'd like to add my own #4 to this list. I've said before and say again, I think people may be sleeping on Strotman because he's not 23yo and pitched poorly after coming over in the TB trade. I remind again that he was rated above Ryan before his TJ surgery in the Ray's system. Healthy again, post the lost 2020 season, he bypassed AA and went straight to AAA where he posted fine numbers across the board except for higher BB rates. Not sure that should be a surprise considering the layoff, the jump, and the general belief that touch/control comes later than velocity after TJ. As to his poor performance at St Paul? He says he was trying too hard. Maybe. But maybe it was that, the transition, plus running out of gas. He has the frame and consistent mid 90's velocity, a few solid secondary offerings, and has reported he's working on a 5th possible offering to add or replace something else in his repertoire. I wouldn't be shocked if he's in the rotation at any point in 2022 and shows potential there. I think the "bullpen option" is very premature at this point and is a possibility for almost ANY young arm. 

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

His minor league stats would be an indication of his hit tool.  A career OPS of somewhere around .650 would make it very very very rare he could ever get to league average for a catcher

That is true, .679 career minor league OPS.

He began as an 18 year old from Verona Wi putting up an OPS in the mid-to-upper .500’s his first two years.  Since, his OPS has gone up every year, reaching .750 last year at AAA.  
 

Sometimes career minor league stats don’t tell the entire story.  Consistent progress may be a more important indicator of a player’s potential.  I expect that may be the case with Ben.

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

His minor league stats would be an indication of his hit tool.  A career OPS of somewhere around .650 would make it very very very rare he could ever get to league average for a catcher

You are not incorrect. But honestly, take a moment to look at his milb numbers year to year. He was young at every level, promoted fairly aggressively, and showed gradual but real improvement year to year. And his OB will show he wasn't exactly an automatic out. And there's power still residing within him. 21yo at AA and 23yo in 2021. I'm not saying he's another AJ...though I wish he was...but if you look at age and development, you might be surprised.

8 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

The OF should have Larnach, Buxton, Kepler and Celestino should be back up.  Second base is Arraez/Polanco/Gordon/Miranda.  3B Donaldson/Arraez/Miranda and 1B Kiriloff/Sano with DH Sano/Rooker/Donaldson and Catcher Garver/Jeffers - Rortvedt.  

Can Celestino play right field?  Seems Kepler is the weakness if Buxton stays healthy?

14 minutes ago, roger said:

He began as an 18 year old from Verona Wi putting up an OPS in the mid-to-upper .500’s his first two years.  Since, his OPS has gone up every year, reaching .750 last year at AAA.  
 

Do people remember that Rortvedt is a catcher and that position, professionally, is very demanding? Rortvedt has figured out the defensive side behind the plate and has the physical skills to now attack his weaknesses in the batter's box. This year will be a clear indication of his future.

12 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

You are not incorrect. But honestly, take a moment to look at his milb numbers year to year. He was young at every level, promoted fairly aggressively, and showed gradual but real improvement year to year. And his OB will show he wasn't exactly an automatic out. And there's power still residing within him. 21yo at AA and 23yo in 2021. I'm not saying he's another AJ...though I wish he was...but if you look at age and development, you might be surprised.

Good point Doc.  I love watching this young man behind the plate.  I will be pulling for him.