Twins Interested in Michael Wacha

Right off the scrap heap. 

Solid starter through 2018 then steady decline.  Same Twins pitching staff plan...or lack of plan.

Twins want to corner the market on #4 starters!

Actually, he doesn't seem to give up a ton of dingers, he's a pretty good ground ball pitcher. We'd better have a shortstop in place though if we would rely on Wacha to be effective with this team.

I'd rather have Wacha than Bundy or Archer......

I think he'd be a great candidate for a bullpen conversion at this point in his career.

In this order, here's lines on Wacha, Gray, Mahle, Ryan, Maeda...

2022        33   MIN     AL                                           0      0                                           0.0   (did not pitch, recovering from Tommy John surgery...)

Wacha averaged 5.5 innings per start (higher than any Twin), with a higher ERA+ than any Twins starter. 

Even if they stay healthy, there's going to be innings limits on the rookies and Maeda.

As DJL suggests, Wacha could be a relief option (the long guy folks are clamoring for?), but he could also easily take Maeda's spot and make Maeda that long guy. If they are so fortunate to have them all healthy, I could also see them going the 6-starter route.

So yes, please, on Wacha. 

6 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

Wacha averaged 5.5 innings per start (higher than any Twin)

If signed, Rocco will pull him back down to earth. 5.5? That's crazy!

18 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

 

In this order, here's lines on Wacha, Gray, Mahle, Ryan, Maeda...

2022        33   MIN     AL                                           0      0                                           0.0   (did not pitch, recovering from Tommy John surgery...)

Wacha averaged 5.5 innings per start (higher than any Twin), with a higher ERA+ than any Twins starter. 

Even if they stay healthy, there's going to be innings limits on the rookies and Maeda.

As DJL suggests, Wacha could be a relief option (the long guy folks are clamoring for?), but he could also easily take Maeda's spot and make Maeda that long guy. If they are so fortunate to have them all healthy, I could also see them going the 6-starter route.

So yes, please, on Wacha. 

Are we buying high? Projections are often based on three years. How do the three year comparisons look?

Well… if he's cheap enough, go ahead.  No sense otherwise.

Just resist that crazy urge & say no.

1 hour ago, SF Twins Fan said:

Right off the scrap heap. 

 lot of people crapping on this don't realize he was a perfectly decent pitcher last year. i mean honestly he can't make people forget that they really could use a top-of-the-rotation guy, but let's not act like the twins are flush with guys who would easily match his 3.3 bWAR from last season in under 130 innings. it takes a village; don't get mad when they fill it with townspeople 

This move makes sense if you were aggressive in the free agent/trade markets and were actively trying to win.

Commit to the rebuild, or commit to winning.  This middling crap is just an attempt to con fans into thinking you did something so attendance doesn’t tank and manipulate service time of guys like SWR/Varland.

Just grow a spine and commit to something, for God’s sake.  This is why we always suck.

It is possible they still make a big splash in the trade market, so we’ll see.  But, if we get to Spring Training and they’ve done nothing but Gallo, Wacha, and some other crap….they deserve every bit of criticism they get.  

This move is fine as either a 1- or 2-year deal.  We have 3 free agent starters next offseason.  While it would be nice to keep one of the three it's not likely if they have good seasons.  I think Wacha can be a serviceable starter.  They should pay him more off of his FIP then ERA.  But a 2 year 24-30 million won't break the bank.  

I don't really see the need for another starter as we already have 5 maybe 6 starters for next season (Gray, Ryan, Mahle, Ober, Maeda maybe Winder), other than to give our prospects more time to develop and have more depth.  Of SWR, Varland, Balazovich, Winder, Ober, and Paddack, we need at least 2 of these guys to be established as a rotation arm by next season.  preferably 3.  

Hopefully Prielipp will be close to MLB ready after next season as well.  Hopefully he is in AA at the end of the season.  

Nah.

1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

Solid starter through 2018 then steady decline.  Same Twins pitching staff plan...or lack of plan.

Signing back end starters and lefty swinging corner outfielders.... Seems like the plan from what I've witnessed.

Are we supposed to be excited about this?  WHATEVER!

It really doesn't make sense to bring in a middle to back end of the rotation starter at this point does it?

We will more then likely have 3 open starter spots next season and 6-8 guys in the minors that need a shot at one of those spots. Maybe we pull one of two out of that pile and only need to sign Wacha next offseason...

11 minutes ago, CRF said:

Nah.

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

109% this. No, I'm not fixing the typo. 

So you guys were upset when the team didn't sign Eovaldi, but are absolutely out on Wacha? They are the same pitcher at this point in their careers. Eovaldi is 18 months older, had a QO offer attached, and is guaranteed $36 MM over 2 years. The contract has a vesting/player option for a 3rd year at $20MM if he pitches 300 innings combined in '23 & '24. It is also triggered if he finishes top 5 in the Cy Young voting or finishes top 7 in Cy Young voting and makes the All-Star team in '24. Plus there is limited no-trade and inning incentives that could push the contract to $63 MM over 3 years, AAV $21 MM. 

I wouldn't sign either of them, but if Wacha can be had for 2/$20 MM (FanGraphs/CrowdSource prediction) I would sign him.

44 minutes ago, bloggymcbloggerson said:

 lot of people crapping on this don't realize he was a perfectly decent pitcher last year. i mean honestly he can't make people forget that they really could use a top-of-the-rotation guy, but let's not act like the twins are flush with guys who would easily match his 3.3 bWAR from last season in under 130 innings. it takes a village; don't get mad when they fill it with townspeople 

We can't do that.  You see the FO sucks because we didn't sign [insert player here] so we need to complain about signing [insert potential useful player here]. 

Why, why, why even bother talking to him, unless it is a minor league contract or for the bullpen. How old do Varland and Winder, Sands, Canterino, Headrick have be before giving them a chance? 30? even then people will probably be calling them young.

With my view of things the major league starters look like, Gray, Mahle, Ryan, Ober, Maeda and Varland, with the AAA starters being Winder, Sands, SWR, Balazovic, Canterino, Enlow, Headrick and Henriquez. Seems like they they in theory have some starting pitching depth (Those are just the starters on the 40 man)

As for the major league bullpen it looks like Pagan, Duran, Jax, Lopez, Thiebar, Alcala, Moran with AAA being Megill, and the assortment of starters above.

So if a starter isn't better than Ryan, why bother, as the pen you would upgrade from Pagan, Alcala and Moran? but again the last two are pipelines guys.

Can we just be done with this idea of a signing a free agent, please.

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Most 30-year-old pitchers don't suddenly find a career turnaround after 3 DFA worthy seasons. Especially ones who saw their velocity decrease. I think 2022 was more likely the outlier than 2019, 2020 and 2021 were.

This is true that most do not, but some do, after they learn how to pitch without the velo they had.  They learn a new pitch, or new way to pitch.  They are never aces, so not saying Wacha will come out as an ace, but many can have a good season later in career.  It is not the norm, but Carl Pavano had a few decent seasons later in his career after a bad run.  CHarlie Morton is a more recent guy that not until age 33 when he pitched in Houston that he really started to be a top of rotation guy, normally just a end of rotation, but at age 33 he learned to pitch and lowered his FIP and ERA to career bests, and has been on playoff rotations. Rich Hill is another guy that not until his mid-thirties that as a starter pitched well over full seasons.  I think he was part of health.  Some guys get by early on with velo, then as they age they actually learn how location, movement, and change in velo can be better than just velo itself. 

That all being said, I am not suggesting Wacha will be that, but for depth in the rotation I am all for it. 

My first thought on Wacha was OK. He was pretty good for a number of seasons and likely an upgrade from Bundy and Archer. I don’t seem his as a scrap heap acquisition like some others over the past few years. Still, we need to find out about Varland, SWR, Winder, Sands, Enlo, Canterino, Balazovic and others. It looks like another rebuild to me so why take innings from the young guys? I still am afraid the FO will make another trade mistake to acquire a number 3 or 4 starter and we lose good minor leaguers like Lewis or Lee.