Alex Kirilloff Optioned to Alternate Training Site

This kind of takes the heat off the FO over the service time screw over doesn't it? At any rate I'd still rather have Rosario than Cave jeezus.

Before people start screaming about service time, let's all take a breath and remember that the kid has 4-5 ABs above AA to his name.  It was always likely 50-50 he's really ready to assume an everyday role in LF on Opening Day. 

Let's be thankful this is 2021 and the organization has the depth to run out guys like Cave, Rooker, etc., until we know Kiriloff is 100% ready.  Let's also be thankful that this team is positioned to once again make a run at an AL Central title and doesn't have the luxury of letting the kid learn on the job in the majors.  The glass is far more than half full people.

Kirilloff's lack of offense made it an easy decision. Yeah, other starters are not currently hitting in Spring Training either, but they have track records in the major leagues. Alex has yet to have an official MLB at-bat. He'll be the first minor league outfield (or first baseman) called up if and when needed. 

Well I guess the FO was on the TD board this afternoon and after all the banter realized they could send Alex down, lol.  He made the decision easy for the FO.  He was no Kris Bryant ripping up spring training pitching and looking like a lock to start the season.  Instead he never really looked himself.  He never really looked comfortable for what ever reason.

Sometimes it just works out that way I guess.  You get off to a slow start and things just don't come around until it is too late.  He is still a great talent and likely will be called up at some point this season.

IMO the FO made the right decision.  I know there was pressure to make certain they were not manipulating his service time but he never produced and his competition did.  To me they did what was best for the team by starting the players that appear to be ready and the most productive to start the season.

Boy, this is frustrating. Good enough to start a MLB playoff game, but not good enough for opening day.

I was all for moving on from Rosario and his lazy play, but that mean upgrading his position. 

Cave/Rooker are not an upgrade over Rosario. They're just not. 

Sure, Kiriloff will likely be up in a few weeks, but that will come after not playing any actual baseball games with AAA not starting up for weeks. How is playing batting practice every day going to make him a better player?

The AL central is tough, it's not like the old AL Central with the winner going 86-76. They have to start fast or they'll be left in the dust, doomed to lose a one game wild card.

I actually think Cave/Rooker is an upgrade over Rosario at this point. It is Rooker's job to now play himself out of the Twin organization. Rooker can get the at bats and the Twins will have to make a hard decision on Cruz as the season plays out, and look closely at the future potential that might still exist for Sano.

If Rooker produces, he is a fine luxury to have. Considering names like Larnach and Kirilloff are in the wings and pretty sure bets to play as well as anyone else the Twins have patrolling the outfield.

If Alex had shined in spring training, Rooker might've become the next Paul Sorrento or Michael Restovich of the Twins, leaving and never getting a really strong chance to shine. Of course, he may still be - but I am happy to see him get a chance to become a Twins mainstay.

I would almost go with Garlick over Cave. Almost. Kyle can go to the minors, so that is probably what will happen. Cave can play center instead of Kepler. I do always go with the argument to better have guys playing everday who can come up and play in the majors, rather than have reserves sitting on the bench and them moving into the starting role. They are usually reserves for a reason.

Boy, this is frustrating. Good enough to start a MLB playoff game, but not good enough for opening day.

I was all for moving on from Rosario and his lazy play, but that mean upgrading his position. 

Cave/Rooker are not an upgrade over Rosario. They're just not. 

Sure, Kiriloff will likely be up in a few weeks, but that will come after not playing any actual baseball games with AAA not starting up for weeks. How is playing batting practice every day going to make him a better player?

The AL central is tough, it's not like the old AL Central with the winner going 86-76. They have to start fast or they'll be left in the dust, doomed to lose a one game wild card.

Have you seen his spring stats?  He has a .129 batting average with 8k's and 1 walk.  He has been over matched all spring.  He is not ready to make the team let alone replace Rosario.

It's fine.

This kind of takes the heat off the FO over the service time screw over doesn't it? At any rate I'd still rather have Rosario than Cave jeezus.

The more appropriate question would be would you rather have Rosario over JA Happ 8M, Colome 5M Shoemaker 2M or maybe Nelson Cru 13M as that is where Rosario's 8M was spent.  You can mix and match and decide who to keep or lose but that is where it went.  Cave only makes $575,000 and his production wasn't that far off Rosario's in 2019.  Cave did have a horrible 2020, just horrible but a lot of good players did as well.   Hard to gain much from 2020's SSS.  I am not a die hard Cave fan and see him gone after this year but if he is platooned with Rooker I think they can get to Rosario's production.  If not maybe Kirilloff can once he finally get things together.

Boy, this is frustrating. Good enough to start a MLB playoff game, but not good enough for opening day.

I was all for moving on from Rosario and his lazy play, but that mean upgrading his position.

Cave/Rooker are not an upgrade over Rosario. They're just not.

Sure, Kiriloff will likely be up in a few weeks, but that will come after not playing any actual baseball games with AAA not starting up for weeks. How is playing batting practice every day going to make him a better player?

The AL central is tough, it's not like the old AL Central with the winner going 86-76. They have to start fast or they'll be left in the dust, doomed to lose a one game wild card.

"If the FO is making decisions on 31 spring training at bats, they probably aren't doing it right........"

What else should they base it on? His stellar AAA track record? It's not like the other choices are chopped liver. Past Twins teams had a choice between the promising prospect and the AAAA never will be. This isn't that team. There are multiple productive options who can fill that spot until Alex is ready. In the long run Rooker may even have the better career. 

There's plenty of time to bring him up if the other options flame out. Let the kid find his footing in the alternate site or minors. 

Eddie Rosario this spring - .139 .179 .139 .318

Jake Cave - .143 .357 .190 .548

Byron Buxton - .115 .143 .231 .374

Max Kepler - .067 .067 .067 .133

Miguel Sano - .094 .171 .188 .359

Andrelton Simmons - .059 .111 .059 .170

Alex Kiriloff - .129 .182 .258 .440

What does ST mean?  I certainly would have made Kiriloff one of the last cuts and given him time to put things together. Look at my chart - he is third best!

FO basically put the chance in Kiriloff's hand and it didn't work out. I think Kiriloff will become the starting LF soon enough.

"The vast majority of spring training happens outside a box score and that’s where the Twins are making their decisions."

Agreed. And the fans here are not privy to any of that. All we can see is the box and occasional broadcasts. And, as I said earlier, he hasn't got a track record of upper level success that should outweigh his current performance and whatever else Rocco and the staff may be seeing. If he was blistering the ball and getting sent down I'd understand the consternation. As it is, I don't get it. 

The vast majority of spring training happens outside a box score and that’s where the Twins are making their decisions.

While I agree to a degree the box does a pretty good job. There are also things that we can glean from watching games and the box score does tell a story an incomplete one but one non the less.  Watching him on MLB tv he looked tentative at the plate not sure why.  His swing was no where near the ball at times and for a contact hitter that seemed odd. He was striking out more than expected.

Still even if we saw those traits and his box score had his batting average at 300 and OPS over 900 do you honestly think they would have sent him down based on other factors?  Come on, man come clean.  The stats matter.  They matter a lot especially for someone with no MLB experience.  What else do they really have to go on?  The stats just prove that all the other things you are talking about are OK.

Eddie Rosario this spring - .139 .179 .139 .318

Jake Cave - .143 .357 .190 .548

Byron Buxton - .115 .143 .231 .374

Max Kepler - .067 .067 .067 .133

Miguel Sano - .094 .171 .188 .359

Andrelton Simmons - .059 .111 .059 .170

Alex Kiriloff - .129 .182 .258 .440

 

What does ST mean?  I certainly would have made Kiriloff one of the last cuts and given him time to put things together. Look at my chart - he is third best!

Just a thought ... I would compare him to players he is actually competing with for a job. Not sure what the fact there are guys performing even worse has to do with selecting between the candidates for corner OF spots. I understand the positioning ... It would not make sense to acknowledge how much better the players competing for this position have performed when you want Kirilloff regardless of how he has performed.

Eddie Rosario this spring - .139 .179 .139 .318

Jake Cave - .143 .357 .190 .548

Byron Buxton - .115 .143 .231 .374

Max Kepler - .067 .067 .067 .133

Miguel Sano - .094 .171 .188 .359

Andrelton Simmons - .059 .111 .059 .170

Alex Kiriloff - .129 .182 .258 .440

 

What does ST mean?  I certainly would have made Kiriloff one of the last cuts and given him time to put things together. Look at my chart - he is third best!

For starters on MLB teams spring doesn't mean much.  They need to put in some work and stay healthy that is about it.  For guys who don't have MLB experience or non roster invites it means a lot.  They can't make the final 26 without a good spring.  So it depends on the player.  I think you will notice that the guys trying to earn jobs are generally doing better than those aren't worried about it.  

Think Lamare, Harper, Wisler guys with good springs that found a way on the roster. Do you think if they didn't perform in spring they would have made it?

Bolded: Yes. Absolutely, yes. 

 

The stats don't matter. But there may be correlation to success that are displayed through successful box scores, such as plate discipline, exit velocity, and launch angle.

 

But there are also troublesome box scores that may want to influence but mean little to nothing, such as Garlick batting .350, which skews his entire triple slash line and is unsustainable.

Sure,I get where you are coming from there.   I think both Garlick and Rooker have unsustainable BABIP's if IIRC. You will have to throw out plate discipline though because Rosario never had it and he still made it. While launch angle and exit velocity are not in the box scores there successful implementation shows up there otherwise they wouldn't be important.

Again while I can admit there are things outside the box scores that can influence a decision on a player I still think the box cures all ills.  Spring isn't long enough (SSS) and the competition is at different levels so it is hard to draw to conclusions from the box as you noted earlier but in competition of similar player for a position I think it can settle it.

Maybe I am off base but the Twins set Kirilloff up for success to make the team. He simply had to have a decent spring and I believe they would have given him left.  They obviously like what they saw at the alternate site and thought he would come out gangbusters but it never worked out that way and the box along with eye test proves it IMO.

I think this was the right move at this time and I don't believe it had anything to do with service time. I also don't think this in any way diminishes the Twins opinion of him or that he loses any luster off his prospect status. The kid is going to be very good. It's just his time YET.

Look, I get disappointment and I can almost appreciate the counter point arguements. But for a veteran player who has proven himself, ST is about ramping up and just getting ready. But for a young prospect and an invite, it is a time to show you are ready. It's the same in the NFL and the NBA. If AK was taking some walks and stinging the ball but had a low AVG that would be one thing. But he's not "settled", locked in or in any kind of groove right now. Another good prospect, Rooker, IS.

Rooker has a chance to be a really nice ballplayer and have a real role on this team as a corner OF/1B/DH. Why aren't we celebrating him vs being so worried and filled with angst that Kirilloff isn't breaking camp with the Twins?

AK is going to come up and probably have an excellent career. And by the end of the season his being sent down at this time is going to fade away as a memory and some AAA time will just be a small step in his career.

I have no idea why you are putting words in my mouth...... about if he was hitting well.

Well you said due to the SSS of spring they shouldn't make any decisions based on how guys are playing.  I am just saying teams make those types of decisions every year. Why believe Wisler was worthy of spot over X number of spring games or LaMare or Harper?  I guess because they showed they could get the job done in a SSS in spring training?  

I am not Saying Kirilloff is going to be horrible because he had a brutal spring training but I think if he is trending the way he is it is safe to say he is unlikely to work his way out of it at the MLB level SSS or not.  So I disagree with your SSS argument in this case.  I think it is enough of a trend to worry about starting him regardless of what their plans were at the start of spring.

Adding to my early post - why send Kiriloff out now?  Why not wait until the end of ST?  It is not like he is going to get his AAA experience in the next month.

I have no issue with you having a different opinion..... just putting words in my mouth.

My apologies that I misinterpreted your post.  Let me know if you would like me to delete it and I will.

Adding to my early post - why send Kiriloff out now?  Why not wait until the end of ST?  It is not like he is going to get his AAA experience in the next month.

I would assume because their primary goal is getting guys ready for the season at this point. Giving ABs to someone that is not going to be on the opening day roster does not facilitate that goal.