Definitely not Sano or Buxton. Grossman would be my call. Definitely not someone while their OPS is around 1.000, so not Vargas. Plouffe is really creating a problem. The team has performed the best with him out of the chemistry. Smarten up and don't change it. The call for Sano to go down is terribly misguided, I think, especially after Friday's game.

Edited August 6, 201610 yr by h2oface

Buxton is looking bad at the plate. Shut him down for the rest of the year or send him to AAA. My take:

 

C: Zuke/Centeno (Call up Garver 9/1, drop whomever from 40 man to make that happen)

 

1B: Mauer/Vargas/Plouffe

2B: Dozier/Polanco

3B: Plouffe/Sano/Polanco

SS: Escobar/Polanco

LF: Grossman/Santana

CF: Rosario/Kepler

RF: Kepler/Rosario

DH: Sano/Vargas (no one else needs to DH)

 

With Polanco on the squad, you could drop Santana and bring up Palka or ABWII as your 4th OF/ Bench Bat. Polanco can pinch run if on the bench and pick up 3B/2B/SS afterwards. This should get you through the rest of the year, then Plouffe can move on to a team that can really use him. Why we have any position players over 30 in the lineup on a regular basis (I guess you can exclude Mauer) is perplexing. Get these kids seasoned and begin their MLB development already!

Anyone saying the twins should cut Mauer is freaking ridiculous.

 

Obviously he isn't playing at his peak, but the guy still has a .282 average .384 OBP and an .800 OPS, lets not pretend that he isn't bringing some nice value at the dish at this stage.

I'll say it again... If I am Trevor Plouffe... I am begging for an immediate chance to play OF. Hes a serious non tender candidate and his production has never been strong enough to lock down a 3B job. He will be consistently threatened by youth and trade upgrades for the rest of his career. He needs position options to give him a fighting chance at survival. If I'm Trevor Plouffe... I'm begging for OF work immediately.

 

If I'm the Twins... I agree to his request immediately... He starts in the OF tonight and stays for the max. When Plouffe is called up... Buxton goes down.

 

Plouffe isn't given a starting job... He is rotated like everyone else should be. If he gets hot you can roll with him awhile like you should do with everyone else.

 

If he hits a little and proves he can catch a fly ball. Trevor has helped his career and improved his trade value by increasing the trade possibilities.

 

Problem solved.

Plouffe would be a disaster in the OF IMO.

 

He is too slow, and doesn't hit enough for a corner OF who will struggle defensively.

 

He should be able to find a starting gig at 3B next year, he would be an upgrade for plenty of teams.

I'll say it again... If I am Trevor Plouffe... I am begging for an immediate chance to play OF. Hes a serious non tender candidate and his production has never been strong enough to lock down a 3B job. He will be consistently threatened by youth and trade upgrades for the rest of his career. He needs position options to give him a fighting chance at survival. If I'm Trevor Plouffe... I'm begging for OF work immediately.

 

If I'm the Twins... I agree to his request immediately... He starts in the OF tonight and stays for the max. When Plouffe is called up... Buxton goes down.

 

Plouffe isn't given a starting job... He is rotated like everyone else should be. If he gets hot you can roll with him awhile like you should do with everyone else.

 

If he hits a little and proves he can catch a fly ball. Trevor has helped his career and improved his trade value by increasing the trade possibilities.

 

Problem solved.

Playing in the OF only helps his value if he does it well.

I guess the Twins are hitting too well right now . . . need to replace someone good with Trevor Plouffe to bring things back down to Earth a bit.

Would the Twins really be concerned about burning Sano's option at this point? If he's really the player that everyone thinks he is, does that option need to be saved for next year?

 

BTW, I"m not saying sending Sano down is the right thing to do. I know many, if not most, posters think there's nothing for him to learn in the minors. It did Rosario some good, but it would really depend on whether the Twins think a stint in Rochester would provide an opportunity to improve his batting approach and his attitude (if that's really needed).

if they are seriously thinking about sending him down now, then yes the option needs to be saved for next year.

if they are seriously thinking about sending him down now, then yes the option needs to be saved for next year.

Sano can be optioned in 2017 regardless. Burning an option now would likely only affect 2018.

Plouffe has played the OF--poorly! Straw Man arguments about building value is beer talk.

I think the first 100 posts of this thread have confirmed what we all know to be true:

 

The only thing we know will be sent down in this transaction is our optimism and serenity levels.

 

Since Plouffe last played on July 1st the Twins have gone 18-11. That in a way confirms my thoughts on him all along the last few years.

 

If only there was a word or phrase for something that confirms your bias. 

 

Plouffe would be a disaster in the OF IMO.

He is too slow, and doesn't hit enough for a corner OF who will struggle defensively.

He should be able to find a starting gig at 3B next year, he would be an upgrade for plenty of teams.

 

You may be right.

 

I know that I'm not suggesting that he will become Heyward-esque. He certainly wouldn't be the first slow OF. 

 

But... I do believe that if he finds a starting 3B gig next year... he won't have a starting gig for long because if he doesn't hit enough for a corner OF... He doesn't hit enough for 3B either.

 

However... If he could play 3B, 1B and OF... He now has more options and therefore more chances of finding a gig.   

 

I'd give it a shot and if it doesn't work... Stop. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plouffe has played the OF--poorly! Straw Man arguments about building value is beer talk.

 

I honestly don't understand what Straw Man Arguments mean anymore. 

 

It's my opinion and I'm not really arguing. 

 

Anyway... I'm trying to remember the games that he played in the OF. 

 

If Memory serves... He was horrible at SS and therefore moved to the OF because he couldn't play SS. He played about 20 or 30 games and then Valencia was horrible at 3B and Plouffe was moved to 3B and then I remember Plouffe being horrible at 3B until he got... OK at it. 

Plouffe should have gone to the OF over Sano, but that's water under the bridge. I predict Buxton will get yet another demotion. 

I believe Polanco has earned his chance to stay in the big leagues.  He no longer needs to get sent down.  I think Sano would benefit from being sent down possibly, but I think it might mess with his confidence.  I think they need to keep him up here and let the new management next year deal with him.  I think it is time for Buxton to go to AAA for the rest of the season.  He is not a major league player RIGHT NOW.. I still think he will be, but man I hope the Twins did not screw him up by rushing him too fast a year ago.  

The Tigers now need a third baseman, rental only, so the price wouldn't be high. But then, they could just release him and if the Twins really do feel the need to reunite, probably could.

 

Unless Detroit would rather have Valencia!

 

 

I honestly don't understand what Straw Man Arguments mean anymore. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure it used to have a definition.

 

(True story.)

I think Plouffe is underrated by many on this board. Just like Dozier he is a very streaky player but he hasn't had his hot streak yet. The only problem is that he doesn't fit on this team at all. 

 

I think Sano is and always will be an awful 3B defensively but the Twins have Mauer and several DH's so he is going to play there for awhile. More importantly the Twins have Polanco who makes an excellent IF backup in case Sano doesn't improve or in case of an injury. If someone was concerned about having a good plan B then they don't need Plouffe.

I think Plouffe is underrated by many on this board. Just like Dozier he is a very streaky player but he hasn't had his hot streak yet. The only problem is that he doesn't fit on this team at all.

 

I think Sano is and always will be an awful 3B defensively but the Twins have Mauer and several DH's so he is going to play there for awhile. More importantly the Twins have Polanco who makes an excellent IF backup in case Sano doesn't improve or in case of an injury. If someone was concerned about having a good plan B then they don't need Plouffe.

I struggle with Plouffe's value. I have a hard time believing Plouffe wasn't shopped hard core last offseason. If he was, what does that say about his value?

 

I don't like Polanco's bat at third. I think he could field the position (SS too for that matter) but he won't get enough power to be a league average third baseman.

You may be right.

 

I know that I'm not suggesting that he will become Heyward-esque. He certainly wouldn't be the first slow OF.

 

But... I do believe that if he finds a starting 3B gig next year... he won't have a starting gig for long because if he doesn't hit enough for a corner OF... He doesn't hit enough for 3B either.

 

However... If he could play 3B, 1B and OF... He now has more options and therefore more chances of finding a gig.

 

I'd give it a shot and if it doesn't work... Stop.

I think you are under rating Plouffe.

 

He is a 3rd baseman who plays above average defense and should bet you 20 or so HR a year, he IMO hits well enough for 3rd base, but not well enough for corner OF.

 

IMO you want your corner OF guys to either

1. Play great D and have a .760 or higher ops

2. Play bad d and have a .820 or higher OPS

 

This is sort of why I want the Twins to max out Rosario's value as a CF and trade him.

 

Rosario as a CF= potential to be an above average overall CF.

 

Rosario as a corner OF= I don't think he will ever hit enough to be average, or at least produce enough to be a real asset in the corner OF. I'd much rather sign a 30 HR type guy who doesn't play very good D (Nelson Cruz type, etc)

I struggle with Plouffe's value. I have a hard time believing Plouffe wasn't shopped hard core last offseason. If he was, what does that say about his value?

 

I don't like Polanco's bat at third. I think he could field the position (SS too for that matter) but he won't get enough power to be a league average third baseman.

Im not so sure it was clear that Plouffe was "shopped hard core" this offseason. It would have made sense of course, but as we have seen now, very little of TR's off season plan made any sense at all.

 

I struggle with Plouffe's value. I have a hard time believing Plouffe wasn't shopped hard core last offseason. If he was, what does that say about his value?

I don't like Polanco's bat at third. I think he could field the position (SS too for that matter) but he won't get enough power to be a league average third baseman.

I went through this repeatedly in the offseason but almost all teams (especially the contending teams) had 3B locked up last offseason. That doesn't mean that Plouffe wasn't better than some of those players but there were very few teams in the 3B trade market. And you need someone to trade with to actually make a trade.

 

As evidence of that the Reds practically gave away Frazier because they felt that they had to deal him.

 

Polanco is great as a plan B option at 3B and I don't buy into this notion that a particular position needs to have a certain kind of bat. Polanco overall can be productive enough to play 3B and is the kind of bat needed in the Twins lineup.

Edited August 7, 201610 yr by kab21

Castellanos just broke his hand and is out for at least 4 weeks. Casey McGehee, with an average OPS+ of about 70 since 2011, has been called up to replace him. Tigers are on a hot run and just 2 games back on Cleveland.

 

Plouffe to the Tigers?

Castellanos just broke his hand and is out for at least 4 weeks. Casey McGehee, with an average OPS+ of about 70 since 2011, has been called up to replace him. Tigers are on a hot run and just 2 games back on Cleveland.

 

Plouffe to the Tigers?

Joe Jimenez. (I can dream.)

Plouffe + 1 million for a PTBNL would be good enough for me.

If someone claims Plouffe to block the Tigers, do you let him go?

 

I think you are under rating Plouffe.

He is a 3rd baseman who plays above average defense and should bet you 20 or so HR a year, he IMO hits well enough for 3rd base, but not well enough for corner OF.

IMO you want your corner OF guys to either
1. Play great D and have a .760 or higher ops
2. Play bad d and have a .820 or higher OPS

This is sort of why I want the Twins to max out Rosario's value as a CF and trade him.

Rosario as a CF= potential to be an above average overall CF.

Rosario as a corner OF= I don't think he will ever hit enough to be average, or at least produce enough to be a real asset in the corner OF. I'd much rather sign a 30 HR type guy who doesn't play very good D (Nelson Cruz type, etc)

 

The truth is probably somewhere between my under rating and your "should get you 20 homers" but has only done that a couple of times rating. 

 

 

 

If someone claims Plouffe to block the Tigers, do you let him go?

I am as big of a Plouffe supporter as there is on the board and I let him go. Something has to be done with the 1B/3B/DH logjam and there should be no way that he is tendered arb this year. Nor will he have much (if any) trade value.

 

I'm pretty sure it used to have a definition.

 

(True story.)

It means "logical fallacy".