Correct. It is a pipe dream to expect some sort of trade to happen in the next 2-3 weeks that includes Trevor Plouffe. Teams did not line up for Plouffe (or any notable 3B) last off-season. He's playing worse this season. Why would there suddenly be interest in him now? 

A Plouffe DFA makes no sense.  If the goal is to deal Plouffe, then he needs to be in the lineup everyday to restore some value by kicking off rust and tantalizing a team that could use a solid third baseman down the stretch.

 

With rosters expanding in September, it is an easy call for a team to put him on the major league roster and see what he can do.

Vargas' OPS since getting called up is north of 1.000. I really hope and pray to God they don't do that to accommodate Plouffe.  It's bad enough that they really need to give Park another shot and will have issues balancing Park, Vargas, and Mauer between 2 positions.

 

To me, it almost has to be Buxton (and sadly it won't happen).  Nothing against the guy, but he still isn't ready.  Perhaps they do Sano. Not a fan of that idea personally either as Sano has had far more success at this level.  Plouffe needs to come up and play so he can get traded for something... anything.

How does activating Plouffe and demoting Buxton work, roster wise? Sano to CF?

 

How does activating Plouffe and demoting Buxton work, roster wise? Sano to CF?

He does move pretty well for his size...

 

No reason to keep Plouffe?  

 

1, it's possible he's a waiver trade option.  

 

2. It's possible we try to trade Dozier this offseason, move Polanco to 2nd, and do not feel sure Sano can be an adequate 3rd basemen.  

 

3. We may be able to extend Plouffe for cheap (hometeam discount, injuries, Sano leverage, low 3rd base market,etc).

1. Modern waiver trades yield virtually nothing.  We would be lucky to have someone take on the final month of Plouffe's salary ($1.2 mil), which may be not be as valuable as answering questions about the young players heading into the offseason.

 

2. and 3. We could waive or cut Plouffe now and sign him back in the offseason if we really had an opening.  Or if the 3B market is as weak as you say, we can find a Plouffe alternative easily and cheaply enough if that's what we want.

 

You could apply the same arguments to Milone.  Both can be useful in the right circumstances, but given where they are currently priced, they are just not that useful to this club in August 2016, nor irreplaceable in November 2016.

 

A Plouffe DFA makes no sense.  If the goal is to deal Plouffe, then he needs to be in the lineup everyday to restore some value by kicking off rust and tantalizing a team that could use a solid third baseman down the stretch.

 

With rosters expanding in September, it is an easy call for a team to put him on the major league roster and see what he can do.

The goal shouldn't be to "deal Plouffe", that's the problem.  The goal should be to answer questions about our young players before we have to make decisions about them this winter.

 

Well below that ranks the goal of finding someone else to pay Plouffe his $1.2 mil salary for September.  I won't even address the fantasy of acquiring valuable talent in return for him (still too many decent 3B available for too few openings, same problem as last winter).

 

He should be on waivers today, and if he clears, we should attach a note to him that says we'll pay his August salary in trade to deal him immediately.

Sano best chance at helping at 3B next year is to play there this year 5 times a week for the last 8 weeks.

 

Buxton best chance to improve his hitting against major pitchers is to play regularly against them

 

Vargas' best chance at helping next year is to get regular major league at bats the rest of this year.

 

The best hope we might get in return for a Trevor Plouffe is an Alex Pressley type. There is no way whatever return they get for Plouffe can match the need to play the young players regularly at the major league level.

Who cares about the option.  Sano has been playing horribly, send him down.  bring him back up when rosters expand in Sept.

Sano best chance at helping at 3B next year is to play there this year 5 times a week for the last 8 weeks.

Buxton best chance to improve his hitting against major pitchers is to play regularly against them

Vargas' best chance at helping next year is to get regular major league at bats the rest of this year.

The best hope we might get in return for a Trevor Plouffe is an Alex Pressley type. There is no way whatever return they get for Plouffe can match the need to play the young players regularly at the major league level.

Re Sano: Playing 3b five times a week for 8 weeks will help a little, mostly by getting him comfortable again.

 

But it won't do much. He'll see what...a hundred or so ground balls in that time? What has the best chance to help is dedicating himself to putting in hundreds of hours of work at third outside of games between now and opening day. Thousands of ground balls.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt he does that. Hope I'm wrong.

Re Sano: Playing 3b five times a week for 8 weeks will help a little, mostly by getting him comfortable again.

But it won't do much. He'll see what...a hundred or so ground balls in that time? What has the best chance to help is dedicating himself to putting in hundreds of hours of work at third outside of games between now and opening day. Thousands of ground balls.

Unfortunately, I doubt he does that. Hope I'm wrong.

Hopefully he will be more motivated to do so if he expects to play third base. Last winter and this spring RF adventure was a foolish waste particularly after losing a year and half to Tommy John and playing DH. Sending him down doesn't help in any way. Play him now. Play him next year. Accept below average 3B and a big bat.

 

Re Sano: Playing 3b five times a week for 8 weeks will help a little, mostly by getting him comfortable again.

But it won't do much. He'll see what...a hundred or so ground balls in that time? What has the best chance to help is dedicating himself to putting in hundreds of hours of work at third outside of games between now and opening day. Thousands of ground balls.

Unfortunately, I doubt he does that. Hope I'm wrong.

Hey Miguel, remember how last winter and spring, we wouldn't let you take any ground balls?  Well, now we need you to take THOUSANDS of them, over hundreds of hours, beginning now, through the winter and spring, until opening day.

 

As always, our office is always open if you have any questions!

 

Sincerely,

Twins Management

 

Uhhh...  is there a race relations problem in the clubhouse I'm not aware of?  

No reason to keep Plouffe?  

 

1, it's possible he's a waiver trade option.  

 

2. It's possible we try to trade Dozier this offseason, move Polanco to 2nd, and do not feel sure Sano can be an adequate 3rd basemen.  

 

3. We may be able to extend Plouffe for cheap (hometeam discount, injuries, Sano leverage, low 3rd base market,etc).  

 

I'm not going to risk the rebuild and chance of contention next season by pushing all-in on Sano at third.  We can always non-tender Plouffe this winter if we decide we'd rather keep Dozier.  I just can't see keeping both or losing both.  
 

With Plouffe not on the team next year, Polanco and Sano could split playing time at 3B, with Sano DH'ing as well and Polanco filling in around the infield. Losing Plouffe doesn't worry me.

Sano played IF for many years, do we really want to blame his horrible defense at 3B on him spending a spring training and less than 40 games MLB games in the OF?

 

Let's not forget, many people didn't have too much of a problem with him being put out in the OF with his whole athleticism as the reason why.  Certainly he's athletic to bounce back after being asked to play OF in ST and a couple months of the season.

 

How does activating Plouffe and demoting Buxton work, roster wise? Sano to CF?

 

I'd put Rosario in CF and tell Plouffe he's going to be playing a lot of LF or RF.  Season is over. I want Sano at 3rd and I want Buxton working on hitting in a bit less of a pressured environment. Now I haven't paid close attention to Buxton of late, so if he's been hitting well, then by all means correct me, but he's flirting with the Mendoza line overall and really needs to go back to taking good at bats. He isn't developing that trait in MLB.

 

Sano played IF for many years, do we really want to blame his horrible defense at 3B on him spending a spring training and less than 40 games MLB games in the OF?

 

Let's not forget, many people didn't have too much of a problem with him being put out in the OF with his whole athleticism as the reason why.  Certainly he's athletic to bounce back after being asked to play OF in ST and a couple months of the season.

 

He didn't play 3B last year either......

 

You don't think your skills atrophy over time, if not used? 

 

He didn't play 3B last year either......

 

You don't think your skills atrophy over time, if not used? 

I think there's a difference between rust and what we are seeing now.  People keep wanting to dream he's going to be good there eventually and deflecting ALL the blame for him being horrible at 3B on the Twins.  There's some middle ground there on blame, if blame is really what is needed as opposed to accepting thee idea that he's just not a good defender.

Edited August 5, 201610 yr by jimmer

 

I think there's a difference between rust and what we are seeing now.  People keep wanting to dream he's going to be good there eventually and deflecting ALL the blame for him being horrible at 3B on the Twins.  There's some middle ground there on blame, if blame is really what is needed as opposed to accepting thee idea that he's just not a good defender.

 

I am not sure anyone is black and white on the blame.....there is plenty to go around. 

 

The question is, should they send him down right now? I vote no, unless he is a big, fat, lazy person who is hurting his long term potential with his attitude. 

I'm not trying to make excuses for Sano, but it is a weird situation.  He wasn't just asked to play another position -- he was moved.  At precisely the time he was also trying to refine his approach against MLB pitching, which is proving to be more challenging than we expected too.  It doesn't surprise me that different facets of his game and focus are suffering.  I'm not exactly sure what to do about it at this point, but "take a bunch of grounders" or "make him a DH for life" seem at best incomplete.

Edited August 5, 201610 yr by spycake

 

He does move pretty well for his size...

Yeah, I agree that he moves well for a 300 pounder. Why, for a 310 pound guy like him, he's darn near cat-like. In fact, I can't think of a single other 320 pound ball player who moves as good as Miguel Sano, who easily is 330 pounds.

 

Yeah, I agree that he moves well for a 300 pounder. Why, for a 310 pound guy like him, he's darn near cat-like. In fact, I can't think of a single other 320 pound ball player who moves as good as Miguel Sano, who easily is 330 pounds.

 

It's been 30 minutes. He's got to be 350 pounds at this point, right? 

He shouldn't come up at all. If he absolutely has to come up, it should be Grossman or Santana. But, my money is they'll ship out Polanco or Vargas, because that's just what the Twins do.

A Plouffe DFA makes no sense. If the goal is to deal Plouffe, then he needs to be in the lineup everyday to restore some value by kicking off rust and tantalizing a team that could use a solid third baseman down the stretch.

 

With rosters expanding in September, it is an easy call for a team to put him on the major league roster and see what he can do.

They're not getting anything for Plouffe. At this point, he would just taking valuable MLB ABs from guys who should be getting then (specifically Vargas, who has been very good since his recall).

 

If they are able to find someone to claim him in waivers, and actually follow through, which they won't, the return would be nothing of value.

 

There is just no point in giving him at bats. But, they will anyway, because it's the Twins.

Trade Plouffe immediately, by offering to pay the remainder of his salary for this year. End of story. I don't  . . .  i can't  . . . all this Sano to AAA talk . . . I get in trouble when I say what I really think about that around here, so . . . 

Sano should be sent down when Plouffe comes up. Various reasons. First, Sano is definitely scuffling since pitchers discovered that he can't lay off pitches in the dirt inside. Now he's striking out far too much because he gets behind early. Second, Sano's defense at 3B needs a lot of work. Regular reps with Tom Kelly and the AAA staff will get his feet better positioned. Third, Trevor Plouffe needs playing time to showcase his game pre-trade. Plouffe is still a solid 3B, and if he shows that for just a few weeks, he may be gone in a win-win trade for everybody. He's a starting caliber mlb third baseman, and I think people around here could show him a bit more respect. 

 

Assuming Sano accepts his demotion with maturity, he can spend a month polishing a couple critical aspects of his game, then be back up by September, looking daisy fresh and eager as a young bunny. By that time Plouffe should be gone, and Sano's backup at 3B will be Jorge Polanco, which I believe was the plan all along. 

The problem is the roster in general.  The Twins need more players like Polanco and less players like Vargas.  They needed to get quicker in the outfield and infield.  Having Sano/Arcia in RF was not helping defensively.  They have Sano, Vargas, Mauer, and soon Plouffe to play maybe 3 positions 3B, 1B and DH.  But Park is still looming down at AAA, and how do get him AB's.  The management needs to make a decision soon and as always it may not be popular with everyone.  Losing Arcia had to happen whether TwinsDaily people liked it or not.  Now the Twins need to make a decision on Plouffe, Vargas or Park.  

20 days. So they'd actually have to option one player now, then recall him and option another guy about a week before September roster expansion.

 

Among position players, this really only applies to Sano -- I think he's the only one with options left who hasn't already used one this year (aside from Dozier, and it appears Centeno has one left too). And if we're debating whether to option Sano in 2018, we've probably got bigger problems!

 

We could do it with a pitcher -- they could option May for less than 20 days to stretch out for starting, and swap him for Duffey later in the month. Duffey could probably use a break on innings, and May could use some extra ones thanks to his injuries (even if he doesn't open 2017 as a starter).

They could keep Plouffe on rehab for another 5 or 6 days, that puts them inside the 20 day benchmark on 9/1.

 

The problem is the roster in general.  The Twins need more players like Polanco and less players like Vargas.  They needed to get quicker in the outfield and infield.  Having Sano/Arcia in RF was not helping defensively.  They have Sano, Vargas, Mauer, and soon Plouffe to play maybe 3 positions 3B, 1B and DH.  But Park is still looming down at AAA, and how do get him AB's.  The management needs to make a decision soon and as always it may not be popular with everyone.  Losing Arcia had to happen whether TwinsDaily people liked it or not.  Now the Twins need to make a decision on Plouffe, Vargas or Park.  

And to think we spent years complaining that the Twins couldn't find a true DH. Now the Twins have all Billy Beane and filled half the roster with them.

 

The timing of Plouffe's return is awkward. Polanco shouldn't be sent down or completely benched. Vargas should be given chances since he has hit very well. Sano should play through this. Despite his slump he still had a .749 OPS in July. And unfortunately Plouffe is coming back and he is going to play.

 

I would have buxton down weeks ago. He hasn't proven anything in AA or AAA. He has barely played there but sending him down wouldn't be related to Plouffe because that doesn't solve the 3B/DH problem with Sano/Vargas/Polanco/Plouffe.

I'm going to go with Buxton.

My guess. The knees not getting better for Buxton so he goes on the DL and Plouffe is activated. 

DL Buxton is genius.  That is what should happen.  But Polanco will get playing time squeezed and he should be playing.  Unfortunately, he is like Nunez and without a position unless you move Dozier.  But DL Buxton keeps everyone up who should be, and nobodys feelings get hurt.