If he was removed from the 40-man roster after the season, he would be a free agent. 

I think he's done enough to put himself on the 40-man  for the full offseason and a utility player role for 2022. 

If the team is evaluating talent moving forward, I would have much rather seen Astudillo sent to AAA as I don't feel he has a future with this team. 

I think you're probably right, although I wonder if he isn't in a competition with Astudillo, Cave, Refsnyder, Garlick, etc. for the 25th or 26 spot on the roster next year. I thought it was interesting that he was chosen to go down so Refsnyder could come up rather than Astudillo who I think still has options. I believe Cave would have to have been DFA' d so I kind of understand why he would be kept on the major-league roster. Having said that, I don't see that Cave is likely to be on the team next year assuming all of the other OFs are healthy at the beginning of the year. It seems like Cave would be behind Buxton, Kepler, Larnach,  and Rooker at least, and that's not counting a guy like Refsnyder or Garlick, both of whom outperformed Cave before they got hurt. It sure seems like Cave's 40 man spot at least is in jeopardy over the off-season given the number of pitching prospects we will probably want to protect. 

3 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

If the team is evaluating talent moving forward, I would have much rather seen Astudillo sent to AAA as I don't feel he has a future with this team. 

I agree with this post. I think Astudillo is the classic the 27th or 28th man on a 26 man roster that you stash at AAA to be called up as injury insurance until he runs out of options, and then you sign to a series of one year minor league contracts unless he finds a better offer someplace else.

Would be good for Gordon to get consistent playing time and at bats. Probably was not going to happen at MLB level this year. Agree time running out for Austudillo and Cave, roster spots may be used better on somone else.

Keeping Simmons on this roster and sending Gordon down makes zero sense. None.

1 hour ago, mnfireman said:

If the team is evaluating talent moving forward, I would have much rather seen Astudillo sent to AAA as I don't feel he has a future with this team. 

That’s a really good point!

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I agree with this post. I think Astudillo is the classic the 27th or 28th man on a 26 man roster that you stash at AAA to be called up as injury insurance until he runs out of options, and then you sign to a series of one year minor league contracts unless he finds a better offer someplace else.

Agree.

2 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Keeping Simmons on this roster and sending Gordon down makes zero sense. None.

Has Gordon played any SS since being called up?   I don’t recall.  That would be the main reason.

I don't think Cave was healthy to start the season.  So I would like to see how he finishes the season before deciding his fate.  What are his stats from returning from the DL to the end of the season.  and how does that compare to everyone and also how many roster spots do we have available to protect extra players.  I am not saying I am high on him, just saying lets give him a chance through the end of the year to see where he is at.

I like the Gordon move to AAA to get the reps most likely at SS/2B and not so much in the OF.  Let him play the rest of August and then in September bring him back to see how he plays those positions.  Simmons can be moved to bench player and farewell pack on the back tour for rest of the season.  

If Gordon isn't a viable sub at short then not sure I give him a 40 man spot. We have Arraez and Polanco at 2nd or 3rd if needed and now have MIranda and Martin who can play there as well and they both project to be better players than Gordon.  Until Martin and Miranda's emergence I would have said he has a chance but Martin seems like a better version of Gordon and Miranda's power stroke makes him valuable as well.  Gordon has no power and doesn't walk much but he has good bat to ball skills a solid arm and decent speed.  He can play center in a pinch but not sure how he grades out there defensively.

To the point of this article though yes if left unprotected I have to believe he is the perfect player for a rebuilding team to pick up.  You hope he hits for average and that you have a solid utility player for cheap rates the next 6 years.  Best case scenario he turns into a solid 2nd baseman for a team in need of a player at that position.  He could be a valuable pick up.

He would be good in that position for us as well but with most of our best bats already at that position he looks like the odd man out to me.

I suspect he'll won't be here next year but I think he does have a role somewhere as a jack-of-all-sorts backup player/pinch runner.

I agree with Brock in another thread - the only way Nick remains valuable on this roster is to master shortstop. We need to construct a better roster next year. If Arraez stays here we need to give him 2B. Our best lead off, and our best contact hitter needs a position. 2B is the only spot for him in my opinion. This means Polanco gets shortstop. I think Gordon is competing with Refsnyder for the all around utility guy job. Remember, Refsnyder has played a lot of 2B. What we do not have is an excellent back up shortstop. Keeping Simmons is holding back some shortstop experimentation. I hope they give Nick SS in St Paul. We have plenty of back up 2B/OF options.

Leave him off the 40 man at this point. The Twins' front office have made their feelings on Gordon clear, now stop jerking his chain and let him get a chance someplace else.

I agree that the key for Gordon is who plays SS. Polanco has earned an every day spot at either 2B or SS. Frankly, he's our best payer this year. Arraez needs to play regularly, although the where is a little less important. I think the choice is pretty clear - offense or defense? If we keep Simmons or sign a FA SS we will have better infield defense because Polanco is a decent 2B defensively and Arraez isn't really great defensively anywhere so he either becomes the utility guy at 2b, 3B, 1B and LF or starts in the OF. I don't think he can start in the OF because of his knee issues. He'll still get 400-500 ABS a year. Under that scenario, probably no room for Gordon long term. Better defense, lesser offense. 

If we go the other way and play Polanco at SS, there is room for Gordon IF he can play SS. Arraez plays second, and Gordon gets 300 ABs filling in at 2B and at SS. Or, if Donaldson is traded or becomes a nearly full time DH, Arraez plays 3B a lot, Gordon either backs up Polanco at 2B and a new SS or plays 2B with Polanco at SS. This is the least likely scenario to me because then there's no room for Cruz coming back, or for Sano to play regularly. If Polanco moves to SS and Donaldson plays 3B 100 games a year (the rest at DH), better offense, lesser defense.    

My guess is that Polanco goes back to SS because Simmons won't be re-signed and we won't pay the prices to get a good FA SS. Under that scenario, there's a place for Gordon but ONLY if he can competently play SS 20-30 games a year.  I read that Rocco said they've told the Saints that they want Gordon playing a lot at SS and 3B so I think this is the scenario in play. 

I'm not sure why there's a perception Polanco is a good defender or that Arraez is a bad one. The stats and metrics suggest they're pretty even. Polanco at shortstop is a disaster, but the Twins played that disaster out season after season so maybe they'll do it again?

Moving Gordon to AAA and having him play SS there is asinine as it just logjams Palacios who's 100% earned his shot at AAA/MLB this season. This front office creates more logjams than a mill pond.

Don't see Gordon here, we still have Martin to account for and he can play SS.  May not be ready to start the year, but should be here at sometime.  Best twins lineup has Polonco playing SS and Arreaz and Martin playing 2B or Martin playing SS.  We still have Lewis and Palasos at SS, so don't see the need for Gordon long term here.  Love both Arreaz and Martin for the skill of making a pitcher work.  That is a major point when you can run up pitch count on a nightly basis an wear a pitching staff out.  This is what the Yankees do, make short starts from the opposing pitchers and work the pen to the point of a manager sometimes has to give a game away to preserve his pitchers.

Why mess with Polanco, I like him where he's at.  Arreaz is unfortunately injury prone because of bad knees, so he's going to be hard to rely on.  Sign another one year SS deal if no one is ready.  Polanco can still be the backup/day off shortstop if needed.  Gordon is pressed to learn as many positions as he can to battle for a utility guy.  It will be fun to see if he can do it.

4 hours ago, PNW twins said:

...Arreaz is unfortunately injury prone because of bad knees, so he's going to be hard to rely on...

I'm also concerned about Arraez's knee issues at such a young age, but there are a few options for treating the issue. It doesn't have to be something which shuts him down across his career.

I think Gordon's career will resemble Danny Santana's. A player in search of a position.  We still have Royce Lewis in the mix. 

Nick Gordon has a stiff headwind to have any MLB career right now so I'm sure a Danny Santana career looks pretty good to him about now. Here's hoping at the very least, he can stay healthy in the personal life side of things. He's certainly been through a heck of a lot with the digestive tract issues and the bad case of COVID.

On 8/6/2021 at 4:21 PM, bean5302 said:

I'm not sure why there's a perception Polanco is a good defender or that Arraez is a bad one. The stats and metrics suggest they're pretty even. Polanco at shortstop is a disaster, but the Twins played that disaster out season after season so maybe they'll do it again?

Moving Gordon to AAA and having him play SS there is asinine as it just logjams Palacios who's 100% earned his shot at AAA/MLB this season. This front office creates more logjams than a mill pond.

Because Arraez gets the yips very often.

44 minutes ago, RpR said:

Because Arraez gets the yips very often.

Is there a term for Polanco's defensive performance today? Badarmitis?

13 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Is there a term for Polanco's defensive performance today? Badarmitis?

That is the reason he was removed from SS and replaced by Simmons; he is far from league top 2nd basemen but much better at 2nd.