Game7-91

Nick outlines the main points well, it really is wait and see....this trade value is too connected to whatever comes next to draw anu conclusions right now. I am worried abt catcher, although interesting to see Oak traded for an Atl catcher....if we're working on an Oak deal maybe that could expand ,beyond SP? As Nick says, it will be fun to see how this plays out.

Their career WHIPS are both 1.22, FWIW. I dont think the two are exactly apples to apples, but if Gray stays healthy, he is a Berrios-esque SP for the Twins for the next two years, at better value. Gray stabilizes the SP staff but does not add value relative to a Berrios. The major difference between them is age and contract, and only time will tell if it works out longer term. Berrios seems more durable, it's been 7 years since Gray reached 200 innings, but pitching in NL obviously had a lot to do with that. Overall, it seems the Twins are leveraging their prospect pool for more favorable contracts with Berrios and Donaldson trades. At best, they stabilized the SP staff and roster, but I dont see where we are adding value either positionally (and in the catching dept, have probably subtracted value), or in SP. If they land another competent SP, they will have a fighting chance at .500, but I cant see much more than that. I dont see this as much a FO issue as an ownership issue, restricting value and length of contracts seems to me to be ownership decision, not FO decision, but that is speculative on my part. Whatever it is, the new CBA seems a lot like the old already.

Agree with other posts that we will need another catcher. Losing Rortvedt and taking back Sanchez is the cost of JD's contract moving, but they cant seriously think theyre getting value out of Sanchez. The FA cathching list is thin, so this is a worry. Even Tortuga us signed. Losing Rortvedt could come back to bite us in big way, time will tell. Hoping Jeffers stays healthy.

That's so yesterday, its $7.25 today

On board with all but Cavaco, he is still all projection, at some point he needs to produce results. Great power comes great responsibility, catch phrase of Old Uncle Ben:

And in related news: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/twins-trade-rumors-frankie-montas-sean-manaea-athletics.html

This is the crux of the matter. They can make a committment....will it be to a pitcher or IF. ? Seems Story is the logical piece, but I like your comment that maybe Bryant would be considered. And then Pineda-esque FA for SP staff. Idea for Yanks: Max to Yanks for their LH bat, convert to 1B, Twins get Gil back.

I like your optimism! Definitely another move or three to come. Best quote from NYY fan on MLBTR: stymeedone March 13, 2022 The Yankees could replace Sanchez with a cement block and the pitchers wouldn’t notice the difference. Stunned that another team thought he had any value. With Sano and Sanchez in the same lineup, they won’t need A/C in MN this summer.

Being a Twins fan:

Ok, two deep breaths. Something else is happening, tomorrow. This has to be Story, or another trade(s).......suspending judgment until this plays out. Just picked a bad time to stop taking Ativan.

I was looking forward to making up that 1hr of lost sleep tonight......but this is too good. What happens next?

There has to be another piece coming back from NYY, has to be......

Rortvedt, JD and IKF for Sanchez and Gio.....WTH?

Great to have an explainer on this, and a good idea to reduce injuries. But then I wonder why is homebase flush and 1-3 raised? Flush bases would seem safer for wrist, ankle, calf, hammy injuries. Heres sone interesting from espn 2014, this is not a recent issue. Jack Corbett Hollywood Bases....I never knew this stuff: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/10902301/mlb-game-bases-hazard-player-health

They have to account for possible expenses somehow. They probably are treating it as accrued liabilities that return to the income side if not paid. I would bet though they are able to both expense the contract and depreciate the value of the contract. I'm speculating on that, but for owners its more balance sheet than operating budget questions. Rest assured, somewhere in the minutaie of their corporate structure(s) the Twins are reaping tax benefits from these contracts. Would have to assume the budget, to the extent it can be called that, is as much about tax sheltering as it is about roster construction.

I'm up with that.? Surprised, didnt think the could trade Petty for a full year. But it works. 3 yrs of control Twins-esque contract. All good....

Does he have to be on the 40?

Gotta give to get. IKF provides excellent to elite defense in middle infield, but then so did Simmons. Who knows how long Garver will remain at C, and/or slug at high levels. The pitching suspect coming back...meh.....hope it works out. He's a small guy with high velo...we shall see. Not a great deal for Twins, but after Simmons signed, options were limited if they were going to plug the SS hole and NOT SPEND MONEY DOING IT. This seems as fair a compromise as we can expect. Does open up question(s) about Miranda's or Arraez's future, or even Donaldson's. It would seem there are more moves on the horizon.

Agree with Rosterman and Mike8791....not expecting major FA agent signings, nor significant SP trade. Pineda-level guy or 2, a flyer on a BP arm, hope Beckham holds fort at SS, and start running the young guys through the rotation. It's a year to see what they have in the SP pipeline.

Tyler Jay was the most painful. But as Trov says, no way to predict if a player would have developed similarly in different org. Would love to have the Dodger version of Buehler on Twins. But 17 other teams passed on him too. Besides, I have a hunch Twins would not have developed the LAD version. We did develop Lamont Wade from that draft...just too bad we didnt know it.

Some things never change. How does that definition of insanity go?

Good point. And it makes me wonder if the idea of Baseball just relates to Americans in ways that are very different from any other pro sport, or entertainment option? This is interesting, from CreditCards.com, 2016 research: Separate data from TeamMarking.com shows the average 2016 cost to attend a National Football League game for a family of four was $502.84. The amount includes four tickets, two small draft beers, four small soft drinks, four hot dogs, parking and two cheap hats. That compares with $363.58 for a National Hockey League game, $339.02 for a National Basketball Association game and $219.53 for an Major League Baseball game.....The fact that people are spending this amount of money on sporting events shows the emphasis they’re putting on experience and memories instead of just stuff,” said Matt Schulz, senior industry analyst for CreditCards.com. Experience and memories instead of stuff. Baseball in general, and not just MLB, holds an iconic, if not mythological place in the American cultural conscience, moreso than the NFL, NBA or NHL. I have zero evidence to support this claim, just my own sense of things. So, FWIW, I say no other sport can evoke the experience of leisure, simplicity, and forget-your-worries like baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, Cracker Jax, adults who play a kids game with the glee of a kid, Take Me Out To The Ballgame accompanied by cheesy organ, sun drenched open air stadiums with gleaming outfield grass, beer, another beer, maybe a a 3rd beer by the 7th......nothing in the lexicon of sporting entertainment in this country can match the participation in nostalgic yearning for an experience that is so much more than just "consuming" an individual game, team, or season. Baseball is one means for many people, hard fans or not, of simply reclaiming, for a few hours on any given summer day, the feeling of occupying simpler, purer, less complicated time. It's hard to define, but it's there. We might think those who connect ot baseball in this way do so in a shallower, less committed than the passionate fan, and therefore more susceptible to permanently turning away. But I would disagree. The depth of the loyalty is just different, and is socially and culturally based. Even for the hardest of hardcore fans, the idea of baseball can provoke a visceral nostalgia that is not interested in "the business" side of things. The less "business" intrudes on this increasingly rare space in the minds of the public, the better off will be baseball. It just seems like this cultural cache is banked on by the practitioners of MLB as if it is an inexhaustible resource. It is their confident hedged bet played out against the possibility of alienating people with their unseemly PR warfare, and squabbles over things like pitch-clocks and the size of bases (what's up with that BTW-like WTH? The size of the bases? Really? I read something about injury concerns? Throwing a rock hard ball 100MPH at guy standing 60 ft distant is an injury concern too......I just don't get some of this. If anyone knows WTH the base size argument is about please enlighten me, I would be grateful.) Moments like these will test their confidence. Maybe they're right. People will come back, eventually, because baseball's strength is far deeper than dollars and cents, steroids, game times, juiced balls, etc.... This current moment though is damning of the powers that be, and a worrying sign, that owners and players alike, see MLB more as a commodity, to be consumed, a brand to be built, corporately and individually. If that's all it is for these guys, its just a very sad thing indeed, because they are occupying a different universe than most of the rest of us. It is way past time for owners, players, management, and agents to wake up to the reality that baseball is much more than a a business, or even a game. If they stepped out of their tightly built mental corporate and PR mental space, maybe they would find more common ground than they are able or willing to see right now. I'm just not holding my breath. Greed is greed, and stupid is stupid.