ewen21

Who cares about prior to 1976? Prior to 1976 I was still wearing bellbottom jeans and most of the people here weren't even born. I also don't see any parallel between baseball and people working at Disney. Any veteran ballplayer with more than a few years in should be fine taking a half salary this year. The league minimum is $555,000 for a year of service. They also get a $100 dollars a day in cash to feed themselves. There are Disney employees that don't even make the meal money players get in a week. I couldn't quote your analogy because it was too offensive to me. There is no logical reason why athletes and entertainers should make as much as they do. It is beyond absurd at this point and to take the stance trolls like Snell and Harper took is disgraceful against the current backdrop. I am done with this discussion.

I can't say it enough times. Stop coming at me with the owners this the owners that. Sell it to someone else because I don't care. I don't care if the owners make ten trillion dollars every time they inhale. I am sick of the players thinking they are entitled to more than they already have. I am not a baseball owners fan. I am a baseball fan. Stop advocating for the players. They have a union, lawyers and agents working for them. 1. The players have seen their salaries increase by over 500% in since 1990 2. They have guaranteed contracts even if they play like garbage 3. Millions of baseball fans have lost their jobs, have no income and would like to watch baseball again 4. Millions of baseball fans also "risk their lives" every time they go to work (if they are lucky to still have a job) Enough.

The insistence that one must pick a side on this issue is tired. Why do I h have to defend the owners if I rip the players for being idiots?

I am not motivated by that as much as I am disgusted with the way some of the players have reacted. THis isn't about the owners for me. It is about the players just not getting it during an unprecedented time. They stand to make more than enough money during a time when so many of the fans have lost their jobs, their income, their lives. Take the hit like so many other Americans have and move forward. If you want to advocate for the players here then I guess I'll let go and give you the last word. There isn't a chance in the world you will convince me to come to the player's side on this one since I don't see this is as a player vs. owner thing. It isn't from my perspective.

Pretty much this, but even more so the players fail to see the big picture because of this "umma get mine!" mentality and it just won't play in the general population. Maybe with some stat heads and baseball addicts (which I am). Baseball might stand to get a huge shot in the arm by coming back and taking their salary loss just like millions and millions of Americans have. Public opinion and support would give them much more leverage than fighting for their dollars now. To me this debate has nothing to do with rich vs. wealthy. It has to do with the players (once again) not getting it. A small fraction of baseball fanatics are going to get behind the players and that is what is happening here as I expected. The larger portion of society isn't going to and the people who are casual fans (and there are a lot of those) won't either. Again, average player salaries have increased by over 500% over the last 20 years. How long is that supposed to continue? Forever? And let's be clear about this. The money has come out of our pockets. The more demands the players make and the more they get the more we are going to spend to watch baseball. I am not interested in spending any more money. There needs to be a correction in player salaries because it is totally stupid at this point.

How is it that Snell isn't making it about dollars and cents when he explictly mentioned "half salary" It's even more annoying to hear him http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=29175677 I understand this place likes to keep things simpatico with the ballplayers. I get that. Isn't it also for the fans, though? I live about 90 miles up the line from NYC, The school district I work in is less than 60 miles from NYC. I know colleagues and students that have family and first responders working in and around NYC. This guy is trying to sell this "risking my life" baloney? I surely hope he doesn't get a cent from the Rays this year

I am NOT talking only about money. Snell wants guaranteed wellness and safety. What a foolish demand to make right now. He's "risking his life" Give me a break

They could push back all they want. As fans we could push back so much harder. We outnumber them and in the long run we can live without them. They can't live with out us.

One last thing..... If we learn anything from this pandemic it is that safety and wellness isn't something that can be guaranteed. I don't know how Snell makes such a demand knowing full well that there are nurses, doctors, emergency workers, food service people, warehouse people, etc....etc.....forging forward through all of this. It reflects poorly on every other player. If I am a major league player and I read what Snell said I am furious

Hello? How long do the players think they could have ridden the gravy train? The minimum salary has increased by %500 since 1995. HOw far was this supposed to go? There is no such thing as a boom industry that goes on in perpituity. All things level out and deal with corrections. Companies Apple and Amazon are the only thing close and they don't pass the benefits along to the employees like baseball has. Show some goodwill if you are a player. You make enough damn money and there are literally millions of fans who have no idea where their next paycheck is coming from. Baseball doesn't help us sustain life. If isn't service necessary to live daily life. As much as I love watching baseball, I could turn it off as fast as you can snap your finger. And that is what people are going to do if the players pursue this and make it into a spectacle. I have about 10 friends who I have talked to or texted on this matter. I don't know anyone who is saying …"yeah but the owners" Not a good look by the players. Not a good look at all. This is a prime example of "jumping the shark"

Why should they get anything more than a pro-rated salary? 1. They don't work from home 2. They are not an essential business 3. The lowest paid employee is going to be salaried at slightly over $277,000 Put all that against the current backdrop where over 30 million people are unemployed. Fans who loyally support baseball are the only reason why players make so much money. How about 33% for the players 33% for the owners and 33% reinvestment in the municipality? If Ian Snell decides he doesn't want to play baseball then maybe he shouldn't have a job in baseball? Give a young guy his spot.

"You would be forgiven if you simply chose to forget any Twins player between 2011 and 2017 not named Joe Mauer" I would love to forget the 2011 version of Joe Mauer. It was pretty ugly

It's hard to call Mauer a catcher when you look at his entire body of work. Literally 40% of his work was at first base and DH. That wasn't the case with Gary Carter, Yogi Berra, Mike Piazza, or even John Bench (who played multiple positions). There is something to that. We have to be mindful of the fact that the catcher angle only applies to 60% of his career, so when people generalize and speak about the totality of his career it is flawed. We cannot put him in the same category as the great catchers for that reason. Considerations need to get made. It doesn't matter if they aren't made here or even if that concept is accepted here. It WILL factor into the judging process when writers from around the country vote and if Mauer isn't inducted I really don't want to see this place go berserk. The HOF isn't that important to me unless a guy gets totally robbed. If Mauer isn't inducted in the first round or even the second or third we should not be angry or shocked. He is borderline to me. His production dropped way too soon after that amazing 2009 season

It is widely stated here that Mauer's concussions ruined his career. I don't dispute that on its face, however, that was not the case in 2011 (where he was greatly diminished). The first known/documented concussion he had was in 2013. Then in 2016 he stated that he continued to have symptoms for several years afterward. If we are to take Joe at his word, that he felt post-concussion effects for that long....how is it nothing was noted by the medical staff? With matters such as this isn't it incumbent upon the player to be forthright with the medical staff? Why was he still catching? The concussion issues are part of it, but Mauer did himself in as well--in my opinion. He wasn't one to embrace strength and conditioning and he refused to change his approach. He looked weak when he came in for the 2011 and I saw that right away. Not sure what happened to him that winter between 2010-2011, but maybe the pressure of the contract and getting swept by the Yankees again rocked his world emotionally? It sure felt like it to me..

Some rather bold statements in here, but I agree with them. I totally agree with you on Zoilo. THat was the year before I was born so I didn't see what happened, but looking at the numbers the whole thing seems odd. As far as Mauer was concerned. I get what you are saying. He really wasn't a game wrecker like Piazza was or a leader (important for a catcher) and power bat like Carter and Bench. He played most of his career with a table setter's mindset. Matty Alou hit over .330 in four consecutive seasons--from 1966 to 1969. That is great, but give me what Harmon did those years over Matty Alou. That said, Mauer in 2009 was unbelievable and I think Piazza, Bench and Carter had seasons that rival and perhaps surpass what Mauer did in 2009. My trouble with Mauer is this... A lot of people like to say he was "victimized" by Target Field but that doesn't hold up to the actual evidence. When you watch the clip of all of his 2009 home runs (and watch it ALL) it is readily apparent that he hit at least a dozen home runs to center and right field and a good bunch of them went way over the wall. In the entire rest of his career I do not know if he hit that many home runs to those parts of the field. Watch this here and tell me that Mauer didn't hit some monstrous shots to CF and RF. I count about 12 absolute bombs to CF and RF with at least three upper deckers to right field. Sure, he hit a lot of HRs too left that barely made it over the wall, but if you subtract ALL OF THOSE (which is ridiculous) he still has 12 or 13 home runs that were not hit to left field at all. He hit a couple of deep deep bombs to center in NY, a couple in Texas and a couple in Anaheim. He hit six or seven moonshots to right and CF in the Dome: The truth about Joe's home run decline is that he decided to become a table setter. He was all about slapping the ball to left and grinding out walks. Given the money he was paid and what was expected when he signed that contract it is kind of weak, in my opinion.

I am sorry, but getting swept by Oakland in the first round really kills it for me. As great as that comeback was and as breath taking the stretch run was we did nothing with it in the end and I look back on 2006 as a damn shame. I was OK with calling that a successful season at the time, but I can't look at it that way now.

I was born in 1966 so I cannot say I saw Koufax play, but I appreciate what older intelligent baseball lovers have told me over the years. He pitched in a four man rotation and started many more games than Santana did. The most innings Santana pitched in one season was more than 100 innings LESS than Koufax's most innings in a season. In the postseason his ERA was under 1.00 in 57 innings. Oh I know...."small sample size". It matters! I hear Yankee fans grouse about Kirby Puckett getting in and Don Mattingly not. You don't think titles make a difference? This didn't need to get so sour grapes and turn into an indictment on Koufax by guys who weren't even alive until a couple of decades after he retired with an elbow that couldn't be repaired at age 30.

I love Johan Santana. He was my favorite Twins player from when he first became a starter to the very end (especially after he ripped Twins management for putting "the future" ahead of right now). That being said, I am not even trying to hear this "Sandy Koufax is the most overrated..." stuff. It is this kind of stuff, quite frankly, that makes this place seem trite because it is sour grapes BS and Koufax doesn't deserve that. Winning sure as heck matters and Koufax is referenced as the guy who probably had the best stuff and the best stretch a pitcher ever had in the modern era. No reason to go to that tired refrain about Johan not garnering the necessary respect because he played in Minnesota. It isn't a good look, in my opinion.

Looked up that game. He faced 10 batters and walked four. Ouch

It is what prompted me to start this thread. Why not do something uniformly, though, and do it through the major league baseball players association? There is enough money in the league. The average player salary is roughly 4 million/ year. They can't manage their money well enough to have just about every player kick in one measly percent of that? I am salaried a little north of 100,000 a year. That would be like me donating $100. There is no way the union shouldn't be able to get a fund of about 25 million to donate to the cause. They should organize it and let it be a statement as to what it takes for a society to surive and hopefully thrive. They play baseball. If every stadium were imploded and all bats and balls were burned we would go on living. They are NOT essential to our society. Wealthy entertainers and athletes are useless if they aren't playing their sport. They are able bodied enough and rich enough to do something. An organized gesture of thanks on the part of the players would be nice to see, but I won't hold my breath. It took a South Korean ballplayer to have the presence of mind to do what Choo did. These are not the kinds of values installed in a lot of young Americans and it is sad.

Why not? Afterall, they will get their guaranteed money and millions where millions of other Americans will not. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2020/ Above is a list of the salaries due to players from their respective teams. Without crunching the numbers, that looks to me to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 billion dollars due to players this year before taxes. Why can't the union find it inside themselves to donate 1% of that helping first responders and their families (or something in relief of this crisis)?

And have it compacted into a 50 day schedule with lots of travel. See who is standing in the end

Boras needs to just go someplace far away, never return and see if anyone misses him. His thoughts have should have no more relevance than the ones posted by your ordinary poster here.

I no longer view the AJ deal as some outrageously great deal. Liriano was a great pitcher for us for a half of as season in 2006. He had a strong year in 2010. Nathan, while effective most of the year, FAILED when the bright lights shone on him. He spit the bit with the Giants in the playoffs as well. For as effective as he was he was not a big game closer. If you are a closer not built to close out big games then what are you? Seeing him pitch in Yankee Stadium was actually disturbing to watch at times with all those tics that would come out. It was absolutely horrendous to watch and I would not call it "small sample size" or a "fluke" either. THey dude clearly panicked in those situations and thus his value is diminished for me. AJ went on the have a very solid career. It isn't like he wasn't a solid starting catcher for literally ten years following the trade. It turned out to be a bad trade for SF because he didn't work out there. It was a good trade for us but not an epic fleecing to me. Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas was a fleece job. Lou Brock for Ernie Brolio was a fleece job.

I am sorry, but everyone outlives their usefulness and that is what happened with Ryan. You can say he was a great scout of talent back in the day and that he did "a lot of great things for the organization", but to deny his incompetence in the end is a bit absurd to me. YOU ARE CORRECT. The Twins were WAY LATE to adapt to change. What the heck is baseball without the dynamic nature of the game? It changes and that is an absolute which must be understood and acknowledged. Ryan refused to do so. The fact is, no matter how unpleasant it is for you to hear, Ryan was fired because he was not fit for the job any longer and we all knew it the day he stepped down in 2007. He even said so himself. Nobody told Ryan to come back, but he did. He stepped away when it was time to deal with Torii and Johan and then came back after Mauer was signed; BUT only when the team completely cratered. It was your standard "low risk, high reward" move that defined Ryan. I guess he figured....the team is already blown up, so how can I screw it up worse? And he did! Had Ryan simply walked away in 2007 and rode off into the sunset as a behind the scenes guy then maybe I can understand your dismay over how Ryan gets vilified. However, he came back when we were safely in a nuclear winter and did even more damage after he came back. Need I summarize his asinine moves of the second tenure?