ewen21

It's a dead point as far as trying to convince me to stop saying it

I have never once uttered those words to anyone. I have never tried it out on the internet until now. I chose this place because I knew this place is overwhelmingly white. I already told "gunnarthor" YOU WIN! I will never say that again. What the heck more do you want? It is a dead issue at this point. The real issue I have right now is the collateral damage from this week and change of mayhem. Businesses have been destroyed, neighborhoods have been burned and looted, people are trying to put their lives back together as it is with COVID-19. Is there any space in your heart for all those innocent people who have been victimized by the riots? And please. Let's acknowledge that (even if unintentional) the protests enable the riots. I understand the difference between the two groups but no one here seems to be able to see the symbiotic relationship between the two. If the protesters addressed the looters by saying, "We will stop protesting if the looting doesn't end" we will see real quick who the bad actors are. I have yet to see that

We haven't been able to solve the racial injustice thing through protests, looting, riots, etc... for well over 50 years. How are we supposed to get this done in one day? I think now more than ever the door is open for some real talk, but it isn't getting done by by closing streets and highways so people can walk around with signs while bad actors loot and burn cities.

This is starting to become a ransom letter. The protesters need to understand that the rioters are using them to do their thing. If the protesters don't get this then I question their leadership. It's been nine days of this stuff and It is high time their leadership puts the signs down, stop blocking streets and allow people to get back to work, run errands and live daily life. This includes everyone. Whites, blacks, everyone. This is all happening in the backdrop of a pandemic. I am sorry, but it is past the point of it being a reasonable protest. Not when all this collateral damage is occurring Time to move on to the next phase and start the conversation

I have looked it up and as far as the underlined comment goes can you articulate for me what this means specifically? if they are going to protest until "systemic racism" ends then this is life for the indefinite future. That will take time, work and cooperation. When will that begin? If we could wave a magic wand and make it all go away it would have been done by now

I am not aware of the circumstances surround this particular event. I know he wanted to wanted to visit St. John's Episcopal Church and it was ill-advised, but rioters did burn the church and destroy monuments there. Is that an acceptable practice in your estimation?

Here is another thought. Why can't the protesters stand down for now so as to allow law enforcement to squash the violent actors and find caches of explosives and incendiaries they are leaving everywhere? It is rather clear the bad actors are using the crowds of "peaceful protestors" to their advantage. Watching ABC News yesterday evening they showed a large peaceful protest clogging Vine Street in LA. While they were praising the protesters a gang of looters were smashing windows and looting stores blocks away. These maneuvers have become typical of the bad actors and the protesters would do well to understand this. They don't seem to be capable of acknowledging this right now and I wish they would. It is going on day nine. When do we move on to phase two and start the clean up?

HOw was that situation random? It was preplanned and calculated. I did not sidestep the point on "tyranny of the majority" That is exactly what Weinstein was objecting to. And no, I would not have gone with the flow. This kind of thing isn't effective in creating change or a real dialogue. We won't agree on Evergreen in million years, so will you allow me to bail on the discussion? I made my point and don't really require any support from anyone here. I only wanted to speak to here in hopes people would see merit in what I said. If you don't then my feelings are not hurt.

Do you have words of your own? Everything you post seems to be some cryptic message we all have to interpret. I would appreciate it if you actually said something that was an original thought. You get a lot of likes so this should be a safe enough place for you to proceed speaking on your own terms. Sorry man. I get tired of this stuff.

I don’t think polarization is necessary. I don’t think pushing one side of an argument is a conversation. we ought to promote discussion and want civil conversations to prevail in society. This was not the case on the Evergreen campus. I don't think anyone with knowledge of that situation could deny that. Students patrolled the campus with baseball bats. The president of the University was sympathetic to the needs and request of the students demanding Weinstein and all whites leave the campus. When he allowed them free reign to his offices he was told to speak without the use of his hands, because it was a so called “micro-aggression.”

I watched the actual footage and read the documents. You have and that is how you interpret it? Do you support students mandating a "Day of Absence" for one race? If that is the case you must acknowledge the precedent it sets. The issue centered on that

I answered John. That would be my response to you as well

Weinstein was forced out of his position because he opposed to a tradition at the college called "A Day of Absence". He wrote: "There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and underappreciated roles....and a group encouraging another group to go away. The first is a forceful call to consciousness, which is, of course, crippling to the logic of oppression. The second is a show of force, and an act of oppression in and of itself." Then a mob of students interrupted one of his lectures and demanded he leave. Yet somehow, you interpret that as being "obstinate" Amazing

I am offended by the N-word and no doubt so is everyone here. African Americans are offended by the N-word, too. Yet there are countless hip hop songs that are peppered with the word. What about that? Why is that word so important in that culture? Moreover, why is that culture so important in defining African American males. I am also confused as to why they say "Black Lives Matter" while the murder rate in their community is far beyond that of any other community. Black lives seem to only matter when a white person ends it. Since African Americans males murder people at a much higher rate than any other group of people it stands to reason they will tangle with law enforcement. Too many young African Americans are enamored with the gangster code. That is the power structure in many communities in a lot of cases. Can we have a conversation about breaking that cycle someday soon? (I will attempt to post my plan to offset that behavior later). Don't they have responsibility to change themselves as well? This is why I don't like it when people start playing games with language. It becomes a distraction from the real issue: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls When the race of the offender was known, 54.9 percent were Black or African American, 42.4 percent were White, and 2.7 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,821 offenders. African Americans make up 13% of the population and are responsible for 55% of the homicides. And that is probably a generous figure when considering the unsolved crimes, which is substantial. The no snitch code is real in African American inner city life. If I learned anything working in a residential treatment facility in the 90s for 2 years with predominantly African American and Hispanic teens shipped "upstate" from the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens it was that a whole lot of them love mafia movies and the "gangster code". Being of Italian heritage that pains me. If you asked these teens what their favorite movie was it would be Scarface, Goodfellas, Dead Presidents, Casino, etc.....I would like to have a serious conversation about facts and factors contributing to the issue that has stopped America in its track. This side of the issue exists and yet it is consistently brushed aside. I derive no pleasure from pointing this out and actually feel sick after I hit POST when I post a message like this, but I don't see profit in sweeping things under the rug. If we are going to be at all honest about what happens with regard to violence people actually must familiarize themselves with the data. Does anyone here know how many unarmed black men were killed by police last year? I can't find the data anywhere. Why is that? I heard the number was 9 and that was from Bernard Kerik. In comparison 19 unarmed whites were killed by police (according to Kerik). Does anyone know the name of any unarmed white person killed by police? Why isn't this information discussed and prominent in the ongoing discussion? It should have been when Kaepernick was kneeling, but he never wanted to take it any further than his protest. I fear that this is all we will get. A massive protest with ominous messages to follow and no actual dialogue about the data. It makes me wonder if they want to attempt to curb violence. The protesters have to understand that even if they are assembling peacefully when they do it in such large numbers it opens the door for looting, arson and other things. They had 8 days of national protest. If they are interested in beginning the healing process they need to take a day or two to organize and prepare for dialogue. I am all for racial equality, but on the subject of violent crime and violent acts we need to have a real discussion about it. There hasn't been. Thanks for letting me speak about this.

Unbelievable. Are you familiar with the story about Brett Weinstein and Evergreen College? I suggest everyone and anyone here watch that story because what happened there is a foreshadowing of what is happening now.

I will end this discussion by saying I agree with literally nothing you and several others have said on the issue of "all lives matter" I won't say it if it will cause me to lose my job, ruin my life and make me bankrupt. I just think it is completely absurd.

Did you just designate the same meaning to "all lives matter" as we do calling a black man "boy"? A completely innocuous term such as "all lives matter" is now tantamount to hate speech. A guy named Killer Mike can go on TV wearing a "KILL YOUR MASTER" shirt and this is OK. Does he think as a white men we represent that? Should he clarify this statement or is that's just how it is now? People are holding up signs "defund the police". Is that what you want? Just sayin

One would need to walk in those shoes to understand what law enforcement is up against. To say you would presume it is a totally different situation says to me perhaps it is necessary to discuss the challenges an officer faces enforcing law in these communities (from the perspective of anyone working there). Does that seem reasonable to you?

And if people say "All Cops Are Bad" can I say I don't believe that. I have seen that everywhere and it hasn't gotten any play. It really should because that demonstrates the same level of intolerance people are protesting against.

By your rationale no one can say lives matter unless the word "black" is in front of it. I don't agree with that kind of manipulation of the language and one should not feel guilty saying that if they believe it. We are not going to agree so I am done talking about this particular issue. Thanks for listening

I don't know how certain white people believe they can be the arbiters of what racism is while other whites can't. Is there no circumstance where a white person can say 'all lives matter"? What if that is what you believe and that is what you've practiced your whole life?

I will never understand this for as long as I live. The idea that one can't say "all lives matter" for fear of their job is lunacy to me

Yes, ok. That's good. She asked him and I did a search that resulted in a link. It took all of ten seconds to find. If she was curious she could have fact checked him herself. We all should be doing that

https://www.newsweek.com/celebrities-donate-bail-protesters-1507641 Come on. It took me 10 seconds to find an article.

They are not liberal but they are the extreme left end of the spectrum. White nationalists are the extreme right end. These people are not liberals or conservatives. I democrat could be conservative in some ways and republicans can have liberal traits. These extremes really are tearing the country apart. They have existed for very long time under the surface but with social media, streaming videos, etc.....it really has bled into the mainstream. I won't choose a side.