ewen21

Pay the stupidity tax Pretty counterintuitive (and counterproductive) rallying cry this offseason And I don’t agree this team any more ready to win now than about half the league. Seems like last season was a ephemeral moment. Something “not sustainable” That short postseason series didn’t show us this? Ryu and Bumgarner are 50/50 to make it through the 2020, let alone beyond (Tax my stupidity if you must)

EXACTLY. Stop viewing prospects as untouchables. We obviously can't compete in the FA market for top of the line starting pitching. Find another way.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I am not entirely convinced. Plus I did not like him smiling in the dugout getting bro hugs after pitching for stinking innings in the playoffs. That isn't a winning attitude if you ask me. Maybe he matures, but I need to see more maturity from the guy

They way the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, etc... do it and the way we can achieve it are two entirely different matters. This idea that we should be spending like they do is a distraction from reality. In 2003 the Marlins beat the Yankees with about a third of the payroll. They did it because they had a stable of talented team-controlled arms and a very solid lineup with a mix of talent. In 2015 the Mets and Royals made it to the WS. The Mets payroll was 21st and the Royals was 16th. I think complaining about spending money is a convenient excuse which ignores the real issue. We DO NOT raise pitching AND we lack the balls to trade prospects to bring in some decent young pitching with two or more years of team control left. Talking about how we don't make a splash in the free agent market is a waste of time. It really is. And I would be dollars to donuts the day we do we end up regretting it more likely than not I think you guys talking about "get an ace!" are making the excuses. Complaining about the lack of spending (when you know in your heart of hearts it won't happen) is a very convenient excuse. We can always just throw that out there, but we really have not been smart or shrewd very often. We don't raise pitching and have not for years and years. We hitch up to prospects like they are our future instead simply viewing them as parts or assets. We also don't have what I consider a winning culture. TO win 101 games, get swept in the first round for the fourth consecutive time and have a manager who feels the need to say he "isn't frustrated at all" really is more of an issue as far as I am concerned. That and the other things I mentioned

The more I think about the more I am convinced the Twins need to aviod the free agent market and go the trade route. Guys like Royce Lewis and Buxton need to be available in discussions. I am sorry, for Buxton to truly be a meaningful player he has to be able to more than 87 games. We had a chance to get Syndergaard last year and balked because of Buxton. I thought that was a serious tactical error on our part. The Twins need to learn how to allocate assets. We have some depth in the outfield and outfielders are easy to pick up through free agency. We need to get a stable of young arms under team control with some upside. This constant refrain about us not ponying up for free agent pitching clouds the real issue; which is, this team cannot seem to raise good young pitching. We have Berrios, but apart from that, what has this organization produced over the last 20 years? We need to stop falling in love with prospects and imaging them as long-term fixtures with our club. They are assets. Nothing more, nothing less. We obviously have a need and we absolutely have to made a trade or maybe two. The idea that a trade involving Buxton or Lewis is "mortgaging the future" really is a dated mindset.

I really cannot answer for the mini-phenomenon of Hyun-Jin Ryu. I do know he turns 33 coming in May so that concerns me when we talk about 4 and 5 years. I seriously question where the motivation is to sign this guy to anything greater than two years given his time on the injury list, his unorthodox training regimen, and his weight..... This isn't a guy who can anchor a rotation, let alone be relied upon to pitch much more than half a season. No doubt, he has put up sterling numbers "when healthy"--and there's the rub. Add health concerns with the fact that he is entering his mid-30s and I don't know where anyone can feel good about five years.

Thanks for doing that. I didn't actually research Price, but rather I already knew it was not good. Looking at it for the first time it is pretty bad: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=oppon%7CNYY%7Cpriceda01%7Cpitch%7CIP%7C He's pitched basically a full season against them and has a 5.04 ERA and a 1.425 WHIP against them in just over 250 innings. If the mission is to get further in the playoffs then he is not the guy. Ryu and Bumgarner (as noted by you) have too small a sample size to glean anything from it. Nevertheless, those two names do nothing for me. Bumgarner has appeal because of his "pedigree" although he is not the guy he was five years ago. We would need to pay extra for his past and his image. Ryu turns 33 and he will be looking for a mini windfall. There will be a couple of teams willing to overpay and we will need to beat those bidders. Not smart if you ask me.

I don’t want a guy with such high miles that is a facsimile of what they once were. So much more logical to find a younger guy for less who is as good or better

Being good against the Yankees wasn’t the ONLY CRITERIA being used. Price is so awful against them it’s a deal breaker for me. And quite honestly to heck with Bumgarner

No to deGrom and Syndergaard has been out there. They’ll listen

That isn’t the point. Give me someone that isn’t completely horrendous against them. His numbers against them are THAT bad. I’m not scouring the market for guys who are Yankee killers. I do, however, want to know who SUCKS against them and if anyone ever has, it’s David Price. So he can keep losing to the Yankees someplace else

Guys you might want to check Price’s splits against the NYY. That is most likely the team we will need to get past and we can never win a damn game against them. Getting Price is like a cruel joke. The Marlins beat a world class Yankees team in 2003 to win the WS with Josh Beckett, Carl Pavano and AJ Burnett. None of those guys would have been called “aces” in December of 2002. They were young guys on the rise. We need more of that as opposed to throwing money at guys who made their mark already and are on the decline. Houston made a great deal to get Cole. This is what we need to do and it has involve trading off players/prospects. No one said it was easy, but trading for Price is really silly if we want to get someplace in the postseason. He’s awful against the Yankees. Look it up

Sale is on the decline and is going to need to adjust. His velocity is down in a big way so he’s not actually CHRIS SALE. Is the latter version of that guy. So is Bumgarner. If you are looking for brand name status with decent quality you overpay for it. I would actually prefer a guy on the rise without the name that elevates the price tag

He never could beat the Yankees so he would fit right in, if that is what you’re looking for

Yes but WHY not pull the trigger? This organization has had an overinflated view of the players we raise. That was as fair a trade as fair gets if those are the two main parties. From what we know the Twins balked when the Mets asked for Buxton. That to me is totally baffling

I actually don't have a strong feeling about Ryu or Bumgarner. I am more interested in making a trade for a young player under team control. I just don't think it is realistic to expect this organization to outbid the bigger organizations to bring in a guy who wants 5 years and up.

Well now when you put it that way we should have offered him $350/ 9 years. No, not really. Maybe it's time to pump the brakes on the Cole talk being that he was signed. I, personally, hope that we make a good trade that works for us. THIS is the route a team like the Twins needs to take. Grousing about "signing an ace" and outbidding all the wealthy teams is just unrealistic. Gerrit Cole is now the Yankees problem. I hope he gets lit up to the point where he is in tears and quits

Now that the Yankees signed Cole, would you have gotten in a bidding war with them and gone north of 350? That is about what it would have taken. The deal the Yankees made is INSANE and in my estimation unsound even by their standard. Giving a pitcher 9 years is ridiculous. I don't care if Jeff Bezos owns this team. I don't know if it would have made a difference. Cole had reached the pinnacle and he wants the most money plus the best chance to win. This is something that you can't seem to acknowledge. We don't offer a good chance to get to a world series no matter how hard you or anyone wants to argue this. Until we actually win some games in the post season we aren't going to land players like this The Yankees have that advantage on top of the money. We not only have financial constraints, but we also have this legacy of post season futility that is very off-putting. If we want to be taken seriously by these kinds of players we need to actually make trades and raise starting pitching that sticks. As it is now, we hold no cards in this area. if I cannot make you understand this then whatever. It was not easy for me to finally admit this, but it is far more realistic to come to these terms than to continue to complain year after year about overpaying ridiculous amounts of my for guys who are looking for 6, 7, 8 or 10 years of guaranteed money. THat is a fools errand for us.

This team needs to be willing to make trades for pitching and it simply doesn't have the insight or the stones to do so. Houston traded to get Cole. The Twins tend to fall in love with prospects and treat them like they are untouchable. I thought we were insane to view Buxton in that way when we could have gotten Syndergaard. Prospects and players in general are assets. Trading one is sometimes the best way to bring in another asset to satisfy a need. The Twins ought to be looking to do that and they just don't have the stomach for it. We also need learn how to develop pitchers. We have been extremely poor in that area. Where are the guys over the last 20 years that we drafted and developed that have turned out to be very good? They literally don't exist. So, going the free agent route isn't an answer if we can't do either of the other two things. ANY TEAM can do those two things right if they get the right people.

Correct. It was a simplistic statement, but it followed up a statement that was as simplistic and two dimensional.

How well did it work out for San Diego and Philadelphia? They signed the two big time free agents on the market last year.

Like Pineda HOW? Yu Darvish signed a 6 year / $126,000,000 contract with the Chicago Cubs, including $126,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $21,000,000. In 2020, Darvish will earn a base salary of $22,000,000, while carrying a total salary of $22,000,000. How much have we committed to Pineda? The Cubs are paying Darvish twice as much and he is locked up until he is 37. We can be finished with PIneda if we want to be a lot easier.

I agree with you. It is not a smart play for the Twins (or other teams that aren't very wealthy) to roll the dice. Joey Votto's contract has hurt the Reds and he has had years way better than what Mauer had during his contract.

Yes. I said turn this around. How many playoff losses have we had in a row. Is it bad luck? Is it that the other team is that much better? That certainly cannot be the case and therefore (to me) there is a problem with the culture in this organization. It seems to me they are willing to pack it in and call it a "successful season" (just like Cuddyer did after the last 3-and-out) after winning a division. On the other hand, when the Yankees went down to Houston in the second round after a hard fought series Aaron Judge called it a "failure" No tantrum. No anger. Just a different sent of expectations. Calmly stated, I might add. Baldelii did the complete opposite and while I have talked about it before it bears repeating: No way in the world should he be telling everyone "I'm not frustrated at all". Unacceptable and I am a Rocco guy (maybe not so much now) Best keep that a secret if you feel that way. I am sorry, but a team that wins 101 games should aspire for more than a 3-and-out in round one. Had we gotten further, I would be more on board with throwing more money at a guy like Cole. What is the point to it? We win 110 games and then lose in the first round again?

Different era different game different circumstances