ewen21

I can’t agree. Just because the market says that’s the price doesn’t mean it gives you value or it’s the right price. I bought townhome in 2005 for 358,000 and sold it in 2017 for 275,000. The market for baseball players is fairy dust and it is absurd to think that salaries will continue to grab at the rate it has over the last 20 years. Kind of like the way the market for baseball cards disintegrated the same will happen with Major League Baseball if they don’t curb salaries someday

You have a lot of confidence a guy who might have just had his last good season. I have no confidence that he will be in the league in three years. Based on all I read about him in the last few months I only see red flags. The beauty of it is we will see this year if you were right or if the GMs and I were.

Really? I heard a lot of pontificating about how this team had nothing to do with the other teams. There was thread that basically said BRING ON THE YANKEES. Rocco even insisted on ignoring history. When you say WE I don’t know who you mean. And Ryu isn’t the answer to that. We score just over two runs a game on average during this run of playoff futility. Even if we had Ryu and Bumgarner last year we probably STILL would have been swept. Most of the problem is the mindset, in my opinion

I can’t? Why? I’m not a one-dimensional thinker so I look at it from more than one angle. I’ve made that pretty clear in my last few posts on this guy. Do you want to limit the amount of facts I present because it makes too much of a case against signing Ryu to a multi year-deal? I don’t confidence in him going forward based off his history, his age and his iffy health

Bumgarner comes out and explicitly states money was left on the table in favor of going to ARI and people wave that off like it means nothing. Ryu goes more than 130 once in the last five years. More than 100 twice in the last five years. He turns 33 in a few months and this doesn’t matter. What we doing here people?

Sorry but you have to delve deeper than this. Are you trying to say the last five years mean nothing? I review his performance, injury history and age. What are you using? Please explain

Well put. I get the criticism, but what I don’t get is there seems to be more passion and emotion about this than actually losing games in October. For the life of me I will not get that people appear to be more up in arms over missing out on overpriced FAs we had very little chance of signing anyway. Kind of reminds me of dogs chasing cars

Nonsense you say. I’m talking about going forward. He is 33 years old, with time and injuries compounding so I bet against it. I’m going on historical performance. In the last five seasons he’s gone more than 130 innings ONCE. In the last five seasons he’s pitched more than 90 innings TWICE. No need to get chippy about that. Those are just facts. You think that’s going to get better starting at age 33? I think that is a bad bet.

The idea that we are to assume players are lying all the time is getting irritating to read. Bumgarner expresses a desire to pitch in ARI and yet we have people here operating under the assumption that isn’t true. Oh really. Please explain why he’d lie about that after the deal was done? What kind of tactical reasons would he have at this juncture? The deal was done

That deal involving Buxton and Syndergaard was something I would have done. Too late now. Let me study up on it. I’ll think of something

And we should expect that the next two seasons? More than likely that will be the largest output we will see from him. That was the first time he went over 150 since 2014. Only the second time since 2015 he went over 100 innings. Stats are available to all of us He turns 33 and has had a history checkered with a variety of injuries. Not sure what you are trying to tell me with a single statistic. Perhaps you can explain it in more detail. It would be appreciated because maybe you know something I don’t.

This FA pitching crop is overpriced and overrated. Believe it or not, the only one I think who can live up to the contract is Bumgarner and I don’t put good odds on that. We need to be willing to TRADE PROSPECTS to bring in young cost controlled pitching. All of our prospects if need be—before it’s too late. Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Kepler, Polanco, Arraez, etc....these are supposed to be guys we build around. Keep them and get a couple of young arms with upside using the farm system. Clean out the farm system if we need to but give me guys in their 20s to match this group. I don’t want to pay for a name in a shiny new package. It almost never pans out. All this talk about pitching in the playoffs and meanwhile we can barely average two runs a game during this run of futility. We need a stable of young arms to back up the nucleus. Not guys like Ryu who are a big BIG question mark and 33 years old. When he’s pitched his stats have been good. WHO CARES? He probably couldn’t go 150 innings this year if his life depended on it

Essentially what I’m saying about Ryu. Who cares about “if healthy”??? “”If healthy” for a 33 year starter with a history of injuries isn’t what we need. The last thing is this.... Even if we had Bumgarner and Ryu starting for us last year in the playoffs we still aren’t getting past the Yankees with the type of deer in the headlights at bats we had all series. This has gone on and on for years. If this organization can’t push pat that I doubt we win with Sandy Koufax and Tom Seaver toeing the rubber

A lot of this is about getting a shiny new gift. Thanks for the perspective

Thank you because I feel like an alien right now. The consternation over the lack of free agent signings seems to be bigger than when we got swept in the first round. I’m not sure how this is a bigger deal than that but it is and it really shouldn’t be

You’d have to ask him. He actually signed to pitch here, but then he isn’t a what you’d call a “big time” free agent.

Call me crazy, but last season was a bigger failure to me than this offseason (which isn’t even done yet). They managed to put together a team that won 101 games and went on to, most unforgivably, get swept yet again in first round. I am still much more bothered by that than I am the FO passing on this year’s crop of overpriced and overrated free agent pitching. Do we need pitching? Yes, we most certainly do; but then did we have a legitimate shot at signing any of these guys without going way over market value (whatever that is anymore)? No. These guys are hired to use analytics to field a cost effective roster. Going insane and giving a guy like Zach Wheeler more than 25 million a year for five or six years the answer? While it would placate much of the audience here I don’t think it would have come close to solving the core issue we have here. The culture in this organization is the problem. We lose in 3-and-out fashion and our manager tries to say he “isn’t frustrated at all”. A lot of people wanted to say last years team had nothing to do with all the postseason failures of the past. Well guess what? Last years team turns out to be just like the other teams with regard to postseason performance and quite frankly this off season is reminding me of 2010 to 2011 all over again. Am I disappointed? You bet I am, but I think the players deserve as much criticism as this front office. Maybe more. The FO assembled a cost effective team that did not show up in the post season. They don’t play the games, the players do. I’m giving them until spring training. It’s way too early to flip out. I’m also wondering where all the anger was after we lost in pathetic fashion again? Seems to be a lot more outrage now and I don’t get that

Toronto has a pretty large Asian population and I would guess that had a strong influence on his decision. He will likely get endorsements and other things we couldn’t possibly offer. It’s not all about who pays the most money. These are human beings who want the best for their families. We are going to need to face facts and understand that in a great many instances we won’t be considered for the extras. We don’t have a warm climate, taxes are high, it’s not a place that will lure Latin players, we have a history of losing in the playoffs. All in all, this is not a real big deal in the grand scheme of things. Today it feels bad because we lost out on a free agent, but let’s be practical. Ryu is a guy who won’t hold up for very long. He got his pay day so he’s happy, but if I’m a Jays fan I’m wary.

A lot of talk is a waste of time unless there is some kind of action behind it. The resounding message being delivered now is "spend money now!" That is all very nice, but what exactly should they have done? Outbid the Yankees to get Cole? That is impossible. Sign Wheeler for more than what Philly offered? And on and on and on. More than anything this is about a resentment toward the Twins for not spending enough. As if spending will be some magical bullet.

Now, I can go back to 2006 and 2009 where the GM did nothing to help a contending team on the rise at the trade deadline. That isn't the case nearly as much anymore. I will go as far as to say the 2010 team had all it needed, but they chose to coast to the finish line resting players and acting like it didn't make a difference who they played. That mindset still exists and it is toxic

Agree and Disagree. I agree that a tangible reason players don't come here is the postseason failures. It's just too much to shrug off at this point. I disagree in that the GM/owners gave them all they needed last year. They won 101 games and it was the players who get the big red F for the manner in which they performed in the postseason. Rocco's comments at the end were insane. He seems to be more about the player's fraternity and having fun than he is winning. Last year's offseason is on the players. They pretended there was no monkey on their back and that the past had nothing to do with them. Rocco and the players were indoctrinated into the mindset where everyone tries to make excuses and "keep things positive" and it is killing this organization. Well guess what? That group is now part of the same past that so many insisted was irrelevant. How long before people begin to accept there is a problem with the culture in this organization that far exceeds their payroll constraints? It really is simple to complain about how the owner doesn't spend and in doing that it absolves the players. No way in heck should they be absolved for the latest postseason abomination. I am not a FalveyLevine disciple, but they did a great job putting together last year's team. I also think the fans need to have more of a stomach for speaking the truth rather than feeling the need to "positive spin" on things. Why can't we be truthful? All the teams in our division have made it to the WS in the last 20 years. None of them seem to have an inferiority syndrome in the playoffs. This team does and one free agent pitcher won't cure it. I don't know what the answer is, but whatever we have done doesn't work.

Only my intense hatred for the Yankees makes me want this to happen. With other team, in any other situation, I would be in favor of this becoming a landmark case against guaranteed contracts in baseball. There has to be a limit to what is allowed and if there is then it is better for the Twins. These players make enough money,

I want the Yankees to get screwed, but I hope Ellbsury has every cent taken from him after the Yankees are forced to pay him off.

I don’t think “stupid money” is derogatory toward anyone. If it is then I wouldn’t say that’s your problem. You are correct in saying we cannot do the 5+ year deals with guys over 30. Not unless we got deep in the playoffs and needed one more piece. We aren’t that close, in my opinion. Even if we had Cole last year we wouldn’t have made it out of the first round. Anyone who believes otherwise is forsaking reality to put a “positive” spin on things

Yes and the Yankees gave him an insane contract. They have the stupid money we don’t have.