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  • Twins Select RHP Tyler Kinley In Rule 5 Draft (Lose Burdi to Phillies, Bard to Angels)


    Seth Stohs

    See updates below...The Twins lost two players in the Major League portion of the Rule 5 draft and added a right-handed pitcher. In the minor league Rule 5, they added two players without losing anyone.

    On Thursday morning, the 2017 Winter Meetings will come to a close with the annual Rule 5 draft. Last month, the Minnesota added three players to their 40-man roster, but they left several very talented players unprotected. The Twins could potentially lose a couple of players (at least tentatively) to the Rule 5. However, they currently have just 37 players on their 40-man roster, so in theory, they could make a Rule 5 pick (or three!).

    Below you'll find a brief preview of the 2017 Rule 5 Draft, but as the draft takes place, this article will continue to be updated if the Twins lose or gain players. So be sure to check back often. The draft starts at 8:00 a.m. central time.

    Image courtesy of Seth Stohs, Twins Daily (photo of Nick Burdi)

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    8:15 Update: A computer glitch delayed the inevitable, but with the 3rd overall pick in the Rule 5 draft, the Phillies selected Nick Burdi from the Twins. It was expected. Reports from Orlando indicate that he will be traded.

    8:18 Update: Angels selected Luke Bard.

    8:19 Update: The Twins selected right-handed pitcher Tyler Kinley from the Miami Marlins (more to come after draft).

    Tyler Kinley was the 16th round pick of the Miami Marlins in the 2013 draft out of Barry Universityl in Miami Shores, Florida. He spent the 2017 between High-A Jupiter and AA Jacksonville. Combined, he threw 53.1 innings in 50 outings. He walked 22 and struck out 72. He had a 1.98 ERA in High-A, and a 5.19 ERA in AA. He will turn 27 in January.

    The Major League portion of the Rule 5 draft is complete. The Twins add Tyler Kinley and lose Nick Burdi and Luke Bard. The Minor League portion of the draft is starting.

    8:51 Update: The Phillies traded Nick Burdi to the Pirates for international slot money.

    8:37 Update: The Twins select RH Yancarlos Baez from the Yankees roster in the AAA Rule 5. Baez was signed by the Yankees as a shortstop, but in 2017, he transitioned to pitching in the GCL. Interesting gamble.

    8:43 Update: The Twins selected Sandy Lugo, a 22-year-old RHP from the Dominican, and from the Reds organization. In 2017, he split the year before Low-A Dayton (2 games) and High-A Daytona (4-6, 5.32 ERA in 42 relief games). In 64 innings, he had 40 walks but he struck out 82.

    8:51 Update: Nick Burdi was traded to the Pirates in exchange for international bonus pool money.

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    Below we're going to start with the basics. Who is eligible for the Rule 5 draft? Who could the Twins lose in the Rule 5 draft, and who could they select if they do make a pick? Also, check back often during the 8:00 hour as I'll be updating this article if (or when) they lose a player or add a pick.

    The Basics

    Let's start with who is eligible.

    • Players who were 18-years-old when they signed as an international free agent or draft pick signed in 2013. This group includes players such as Kohl Stewart and Lewin Diaz.
    • College players selected in the 2014 Draft. This category includes the likes of Nick Burdi and Jake Reed.
    • Players who are not yet minor league free agents and have been eligible in previous seasons. Luke Bard and Ryan Eades are two from this group.

    For much more on the players who are eligible for the Rule 5 draft, with the exception of the three players added to the 40-man roster, click here.

    To make an MLB selection, a team must pay $100,000. That player needs to be on the drafting team’s 25-man roster all season or be offered back to the original team for $50,000. The other option is that the teams can work out a trade. The Twins have examples of what can happen with their five most recent picks.

    • Scott Diamond – Twins selected him from the Braves. He did not make the opening day roster, but the Twins and Braves were able to work out a trade. Diamond was taken off of the 40-man roster and the Twins sent RHP Billy Bullock to Atlanta.
    • Terry Doyle – The Twins selected Doyle from the White Sox organization. He was returned to Chicago late in spring training.
    • Ryan Pressly – The Twins drafted Pressly from the Red Sox organization. He remained on the Twins roster the entire 2013 season. He was able to be sent back to AAA during the 2014 season and pitched well enough to be called up during the season’s second half.
    • JR Graham - The Twins selected Graham from the Atlanta organization. He spent an entire season on the Twins roster in 2015 only to be DFAd less than two months into the 2016 season.
    • Justin Haley - The Twins selected Miguel Diaz from the Brewers organization with the top pick in the 2016 Rule 5. They traded down and got starter Justin Haley. He made the roster and made a few appearances. He spent a couple of stints on the DL before the Twins sent him back to the Red Sox.

    Who The Twins Could Lose

    • Throughout the week, we have heard from several sources that Nick Burdi is very likely be be selected. The flame-thrower had Tommy John surgery in June and will likely miss much of the 2018 season. If he does, the requirement of staying on a team's active roster will carry into the 2019 season.
    • Jake Reed and Luke Bard are two other relievers that I feel have a chance at least to be selected. They are both hard-throwing relievers who finished 2017 in AAA. They both get a lot of movement. They could be stashed on an MLB roster, but they are also guys who could contribute in 2018.
    • Lewin Diaz is less likely to be selected due to his proximity and his lack of position flexibility.
    • Ryan Eades had a strong showing in the Arizona Fall League and did have a couple of appearances in AAA late in the season.
    • Kohl Stewart was the Twins top pick in 2014 out of high school in Houston. He's put up strong ERAs (until 2017), but he's never put up the strikeout numbers that the front office might hope for.

    Who The Twins Could Pick

    I don't know if the Twins will make a pick. My general theory is that a team should almost always take a Rule 5 pick and see how it goes. The Twins have three open spots on the roster, so they could take three players. They won't, but they could take one. Here are two good sources for lists of who might be available.

    The Twins have the 20th pick in the Rule 5 draft (as they will next June in the Rule 4 draft). However, several teams ahead of them have full 40-man rosters so they won't be able to make a pick. Some teams may pass.

    Minor League Rule 5 Draft

    Shortly after the Major League Rule 5 draft, the Minor League (AAA) portion will start. We'll also update you on any players the Twins gain or lose in that draft.

    Feel free to discuss the Rule 5 draft before, during and after...

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    Was just reading Tom's comment about Burdi being left off the roster for a reason and thought "someone left Santana off their roster for some reason also"   

     

    Can someone explain the downside of keeping Burdi on the roster while we have 4 open spots?    Why don't they always have 40 filled and then take guys off as needed rather than take 4 guys off in anticipation of acquiring 4 different guys.   What is the value of having a spot available ahead of time?

    It is a tremendous advantage if these borderline guys can pass through waivers.

    If the Twins added Bard (for example) and later needed that 40 man spot for a signing or trade then they have to expose him to waivers and potentially lose him that way. A team claiming him off of waivers only has to keep him on the 40 man roster instead of keeping him on the 25 man roster like a Rule V draftee. Hopefully I got this mostly right. There is some terminology that gets mixed up like waivers, DFA and outright. 

     

    If Bard sneaks through the Rule V then the Twins don't need to expose him to waivers since he was never on the 40. Huge advantage for the team.

     

    The Twins leaving 4 spots open (2 filled now) indicates a high likelihood that the FO will be active this offseason.

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    Wow, color me underwhelmed.

     

    Kinley's numbers look like absolute garbage above A+. I understand not protecting Bard, but losing Burdi and drafting what appears to be Jim Hoey 2.0 is just asinine. 

    Well, his K #s certainly are NOT absolute garbage. He's consistently above 11 K/9 in the higher minor leagues (which is as good as Burdi has been the last few years).  They probably think they have a shot to fix the issues with his control. If so, he could be pretty good.  I'm going to be the contrarian here and say I'd rather try to fix this guy's control and see what his apparently excellent slider can do than have Burdi and his injury issues/risk.

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    Have to admit, I don't understand the Kinley selection rather than keeping one of our own. I know it's a flier, and he can easily be removed to make room for someone else, but it's a head scratcher to me.

    Agree, plus now you have to keep Kinley on the roster or trade another asset to keep him. If you had put one of your pitcher on the roster, you could have moved him up or down to the majors without exposing him. Hope this selection is better than last years.

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    So Bard, a first round pick in 2012 was left unprotected as was Stewart (another first round pick, 2013). Whatever happened with Michael, Harrison, Boyd, and Wimmer (some more of our first rounders since 2010)?

    Edited by jimmer
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    Wow, color me underwhelmed.

     

    Kinley's numbers look like absolute garbage above A+. I understand not protecting Bard, but losing Burdi and drafting what appears to be Jim Hoey 2.0 is just asinine. 

    Double-A stats

    Burdi: 3.68 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 10.6 K/9, 5.2 BB/9

    Kinley: 4.38 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 10.1 K/9, 4.3 BB/9

     

    Burdi is definitely the better prospect, as Kinley is two years older, but it's worth noting that per Baseball America Kinley has been clocked at 100 mph and he was their choice for best slider in the Marlins system.

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    I don't think he could be placed on the 40-man after such a move to protect him from Rule 5.

     

    I would think that he would have to be placed on the 40-man but just like any other 40-man additions after the rosters were set, he'd have to remain on it until spring training, which shouldn't be an issue considering that's the same position he is in now.

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    Burdi is definitely the better prospect, as Kinley is two years older, but it's worth noting that per Baseball America Kinley has been clocked at 100 mph and he was their choice for best slider in the Marlins system.

     

    OK, you have me interested.

     

    I don't like losing Burdi and Bard, and they had the roster spots for all three, but I'm happy to see an actual flame thrower in the Twins bullpen. Since he's a Rule V pick, the team is actually going to be forced to put him on the MLB roster instead of bidding their time with him in the minors until he proves to be too injured or too ineffective as has been tradition with this club.

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    Is it possible that Burdi is coming back? The phillies select Burdi, trade him to Pittsburgh, with whom the Twins are allegedly having conversations about trading for COle. Is it possible that Pittsburgh picked up Burdi thinking he could be added to the package coming to the Twins so the Pirates can get the prospects they really want?  If that happens, do the Twins have to keep Burdi on the 25 man roster all year long? Sounds far fetched, I know, but kind of makes sense...

     

    I'd think it would be the opposite. On the off chance the Twins DID end up making a deal for Cole, people will be pointing out that Pittsburgh obviously had interest in Burdi and the Twins wasted an asset that could have been used to make the deal happen.

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    I would think that he would have to be placed on the 40-man but just like any other 40-man additions after the rosters were set, he'd have to remain on it until spring training, which shouldn't be an issue considering that's the same position he is in now.

     

    I'm talking about if they traded him before the Rule 5 draft. 40-man rosters are locked weeks before in relation to that. That's why a trade happened now.

     

    Any type of trade discussion like that would have had to be happening in early November.

    Edited by Steve Lein
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    I'm talking about if they traded him before the Rule 5 draft. 40-man rosters are locked weeks before in relation to that. That's why a trade happened now.

     

    Any type of trade discussion like that would have had to be happening in early November.

     

    But plenty of players were traded and signed as free agents during that window and they are added to the acquiring team's 40 man, it's just that unlike the guys who were originally on the 40-man, the new guys being added can't be removed until spring.

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    So Philadelphia traded Burdi to Pittsburgh for international cap space?

     

    Why didn't the Twins do that last week? I don't see what would have prevented them from doing so.

    If the Twins would have traded him for international cap space, then he probably would been added to Pittsburgh's 40-man roster, and therefore gone forever.

     

    As a rule V draftee, Pittsburgh still need to keep him on the 25 man roster for the required amount of time.  If they don't, they have to return him to the Twins.  So, at least there is a chance to get him back.

     

    I'm not too mad about this yet.  Someone called Kinely a Jim Hoey 2.0, but are we sure that Burdi isn't also a Jim Hoey 2.0? 

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    Double-A stats

    Burdi: 3.68 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 10.6 K/9, 5.2 BB/9

    Kinley: 4.38 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 10.1 K/9, 4.3 BB/9

     

    Burdi is definitely the better prospect, as Kinley is two years older, but it's worth noting that per Baseball America Kinley has been clocked at 100 mph and he was their choice for best slider in the Marlins system.

    I'm more concerned with the 5.5 BB/9 last year in AA as a 26-year-old. Doesn't matter if you hit 100 or have the best slider in a dumpster fire of an organization if your BB rates increase every year.

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    If the Twins would have traded him for international cap space, then he probably would been added to Pittsburgh's 40-man roster, and therefore gone forever.

     

    As a rule V draftee, Pittsburgh still need to keep him on the 25 man roster for the required amount of time.  If they don't, they have to return him to the Twins.  So, at least there is a chance to get him back.

     

    I'm not too mad about this yet.  Someone called Kinely a Jim Hoey 2.0, but are we sure that Burdi isn't also a Jim Hoey 2.0? 

    That was me and Burdi very well could be. But a 26-year-old with straight gas and no idea of how to control it in his year 26 season is most definitely Hoey reincarnate. 

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    But plenty of players were traded and signed as free agents during that window and they are added to the acquiring team's 40 man, it's just that unlike the guys who were originally on the 40-man, the new guys being added can't be removed until spring.

     

    The thing on those trades is the 40-man status of players changing sides doesn't change to my knowledge (after the cutoff date for Rule 5). Free agents are added to 40-man because they sign MLB contracts.

     

     

     

     

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    In the swirl of praise for infrastructure work the FO is still way behind in showing me the things I am most interested in - the players on the field.  Signing Pineda did nothing for me, the loss of Burdi and Bard and the pick up of Kinley are quite confusing.  I hoped some of you with better stat magic at hand could show me why I should have a better opinion of this surge in activity.  

     

    At this stage, if I understand our not so Hot Stove season - we have hired lots of new coaches and filled more cubicles in the office - but of course we have no metrics to judge these moves.  We have Lost Belisle, Burdi, and Bard and added Kinley - which is no where close to break even.  

     

    Out starting staff got a man who will not pitch in 2018 giving us a wonderful rotation on the DL and minimum expectations for 2019.  

     

    What other excitement am I missing?

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    In the swirl of praise for infrastructure work the FO is still way behind in showing me the things I am most interested in - the players on the field.  Signing Pineda did nothing for me, the loss of Burdi and Bard and the pick up of Kinley are quite confusing.  I hoped some of you with better stat magic at hand could show me why I should have a better opinion of this surge in activity.  

     

    At this stage, if I understand our not so Hot Stove season - we have hired lots of new coaches and filled more cubicles in the office - but of course we have no metrics to judge these moves.  We have Lost Belisle, Burdi, and Bard and added Kinley - which is no where close to break even.  

     

    Out starting staff got a man who will not pitch in 2018 giving us a wonderful rotation on the DL and minimum expectations for 2019.  

     

    What other excitement am I missing?

    Near as I can tell, you're all caught up.

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    Much ado about (nearly) nothing

     

    I am not very enamored about Kinley but it is Rule V people. If Rule V works out then you get a Pressly type. That's alright...

    I think you can agree that they should be aiming higher than a Pressly type. I'm more annoyed they continue to explore this avenue (rule V) when the odds are so low drafting a player who will make a positive impact for the team.

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    Kohl Stewart didn't get picked? He was the one I thought a team would take a flyer on. Hate losing Burdi, guess the team is more comfortable floating a 40-man spot to a starter that likely won't pitch this season than a reliever? That's not unreasonable, I guess.

     

    It's Rule V, it's sort of like buying a lottery ticket. A smart team with a high pick might get lucky but the odds aren't great.

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