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  • TD Midseason Top Prospects: #5 Tyler Jay


    Jeremy Nygaard

    There isn’t much out there about first-round pick - and TwinsDaily Top Midseason Prospect #5 - Tyler Jay that hasn’t already been written on this website. First, there was Steve Lein’s Draft Preview. Then there was Cody’s article after Jay was drafted sixth overall. Shortly after Jay was drafted, John, Seth and I talked about him on KFAN. And before Jay was signed and introduced, Nick laid out the plans for him.

    Jay will be the only member of the 2015 draft class in the Top 10, but for in-depth bios on all 40 draft picks, check out the Twins Draftbook.

    Image courtesy of University of Illinois Athletics

    Twins Video

    Age: 21 (DOB: 4/19/1994)

    2015 Stats (Illinois): 66.2 IP, 5-2, 1.08 ERA, 0.74 WHIP, 76/7 K/BB

    ETA: 2016

    2015 Preseason Ranking: NA

    What’s To Like

    Where do you want to start? How about striking out over a batter an inning? Or barely walking anyone? Statistically, it’s all to like.

    But let’s get behind those stats and look at the stuff. Jay has what Keith Law calls “plus-plus control.” He throws his fastball in the mid-90s and has both a wipeout slider and a power curve ball. His change-up is his worst pitch, but has shown flashes of brilliance. All told, there’s nothing not to like about Jay’s left arm and what he can do with a baseball.

    That repertoire has been dominant in the bullpen - both in college and for Team USA - but you don’t invest the sixth overall pick and nearly four million dollars into a relief pitcher.

    What’s Left To Work On

    It’s not so much that Jay has things “left to work on,” but more so that Jay has a few things he’ll need to prove. First, Jay does not have a typical pitcher-build. He’s only 6’ 1”. He’ll need to prove that he can get downhill plane on his fastball. Second, for Jay to reach his ceiling as a top-of-the-rotation starter, he’ll need to prove first that he’s a starter. He hasn’t done that much in college and the game he did start against Vanderbilt was the least successful outing of his college career.

    Typically the transition from a starter to a reliever is difficult. Pitchers don’t know how to prepare themselves to be ready to pitch every day. For Jay it’s going to the be opposite, learning how to pitch every five days. Of course, this year the plan is for Jay to work exclusively out of the bullpen, with the transition happening this fall and next spring.

    What's Next

    Tyler Jay agreed to terms with the Twins and signed quickly for $3,889,500, exactly slot for pick #6. In his press conference, Terry Ryan talked about how he would be used in a relief role and would start out with the Fort Myers Miracle (High A-ball). Jay’s name was included in the initial GCL Twins roster on Monday, but was officially promoted to Fort Myers on Tuesday. The next step for Tyler Jay: his professional debut. So what happens after that debut?

    "We don't want to get too carried away with innings," Terry Ryan told the media at Jay’s press conference. "I'm not going to give you a number. We're certainly going to monitor it. Because I know that I'm going to hear from you guys if I give you a number and he goes 1/3 over it. I'm going to keep it at that. We'll monitor his innings."

    There have been many Brandon Finnegan comparisons. For those unaware, Finnegan went from pitching for TCU last spring to pitching for the Royals in the World Series. That would be the ultimate fast-track. Could Jay help the Twins down the stretch if necessary? Sure. Would that change their long-term plan for him? Absolutely not. Would there be implications service time-wise and with his options? Minimal. If he’s up for September and the playoffs, he’d get 30 days of service - and we already know he’d start next year in the minors to stretch out - so his free agency wouldn’t be affected. If he’s in the minors, he’d be on an optional assignment. That also wouldn’t matter because, in the event his three options are used in the next three years, he’d qualify for the special fourth option because he wouldn’t have five years in yet as a professional.

    Regardless of what happens for the rest of this season, the Twins finally have a left-handed pitcher who isn’t too far from helping the major league club.

    TD Top Prospect #10 - Alex Meyer

    TD Top Prospect #9 - Max Kepler

    TD Top Prospect #8 - Eddie Rosario

    TD Top Prospect #7 - Nick Gordon

    TD Top Prospect #6 - Stephen Gonsalves

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    If Tyler Jay were called up in September of this year, for example, he'd need to added to the 40-man. Wouldn't he need to stay there for however long it takes to make the transition to a major league starter?  Could be burning up a 40-man spot for a couple years possibly?

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    At this time, I'm gonna doubt we see him up for the Twins this year.   I have to think we can get similar use out of some of our AA/AAA guys if we need them.  Hoping the Twins give Oliveros a shot and consider bringing up Meyer for the pen.  Give him a taste and if he succeeds let him stay in the pen this year.  Consider moving him back to the rotation next year. 

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    It's very rare for a pitcher to make the major league roster in the same season in which he's drafted, even just as a September call-up. Brandon Finnegan is very much an outlier, and to expect Jay to be on the Twins roster this year is probably unreasonable. He just turned 21. There's no reason to fast-track him unless he blows everyone away and moves up through the minors quickly.

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    The pen is hurting, in borderline agony from the left side these days. But there are options at AAA and AA to run through and take a look at, relievers and starters. I'd much rather take looks at those guys than a recently drafted pitcher who has yet to throw a single inning of pro ball. Maybe he could handle it, but I just don't see the point of another 40 IP, then bring him up only to send him back down again next season in a different role. Just sounds awkward to me.

     

    What I WOULD like to see is a game or two out of the pen, Ft Meyers it looks like, and then start. Starting working on his stuff and his preparation, and start now. Treat his starts like a bullpen game. Go in knowing he will only pitch 3-4 innings. When the IP begin to rise a bit near the end of the season, you will have the choice to shut him down OR move him back to the pen for a few more appearances.

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    There have been many Brandon Finnegan comparisons. For those unaware, Finnegan went from pitching for TCU last spring to pitching for the Royals in the World Series.

    It should be noted that Finnegan's regular season numbers were good, but he pitched almost exclusively in Royals losses.  He got only one hold in 7 games (pitching the 7th inning of a 2-run win), but also picked up a loss (allowing the tying and go-ahead runs to score in another appearance).

     

    In the postseason, he first made a name for himself in the wild card game, but he only came in to pitch when the game was already in extra innings after Oakland blew a big lead.  His other key appearance was in ALDS game 2 where he pitched the 10th inning.  After that, he was often more of a liability than an asset in the ALCS and World Series.

     

    Finnegan was way down the KC bullpen depth chart, well-protected by other relievers and only deployed under special circumstances (extra inning postseason games).  The Twins as currently constructed would almost certainly be counting on Jay as primary option in the regular season, so he could be more quickly exposed before we even get to the unlikely point of postseason extra inning games where Finnegan made his mark.

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    Also, what's up with KC's plan for Finnegan this year?  He's already moved between levels six times, with only a couple brief forays into starting in the minors but mostly low-leverage MLB relief work (his .6 leverage index matching Stauffer's).

     

    I think Finnegan may have been more ticketed for the bullpen from the get-go than originally assumed (he was only the 17th pick, with a signing bonus of barely half Jay's).  Or the contending Royals have been too tempted by having him available on the 40-man roster?  Either way, not ideal outcomes for Jay and the Twins.

     

    Not that I think Jay to MLB is particularly likely this season anyway...

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    Nice video! The thing that really stood out to me is that his release point looks low. Is he going to need to change his mechanics in order to generate a downward plane (as Jeremy mentioned in the article).

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    Maybe someone that knows the college game can help me with this question. I have to believe Jay was the best player on his team since he was the #6 pick overall. If he is that talented AND has the potential of being a major league starter (as the FO says he does), why wasn't he starting in college?

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    Nice video! The thing that really stood out to me is that his release point looks low. Is he going to need to change his mechanics in order to generate a downward plane (as Jeremy mentioned in the article).

    Yeah, he's a slinger. Not a problem IMO. Release points looks pretty consistent. He gets good lateral movement on all his pitches, the changeup especially looked good in that session. He does have easy, almost sneaky velo on the fastball.

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    Maybe someone that knows the college game can help me with this question. I have to believe Jay was the best player on his team since he was the #6 pick overall. If he is that talented AND has the potential of being a major league starter (as the FO says he does), why wasn't he starting in college?

    That was discussed in the original draft thread (hidden in the draft forum):

     

    http://twinsdaily.com/topic/18552-article-twins-select-tyler-jay-sixth-overall/ 

     

    In summary, there were some other good starters on the team, and apparently the manager liked the flexibility of using Jay in relief.

     

    Personally, I think the team and player got comfortable with the situation early in his college career, and the team didn't really have time to try to develop him as a starter (imagine if the Twins were guaranteed to lose him to another league in another year or two, they probably don't mess with his role either).

     

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    MLB teams were frustrated with Illinois and their coaches. It was nearly impossible to guarantee yourself the chance to see Jay. While working on the draftbook, I actually had a conversation with someone in the organization about using your best pitcher as Jay was used in Illinois. We decided it was somewhere between the best idea in the world and the worst idea in the world.

     

    Almost ALWAYS having your best pitcher available on any given night... there's certainly both sides to that argument. The way arms fall off now, though, it might not be the best way to protect them. At least, that's the argument I take.

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    Thanks for that info Jeremy.  I hadn't thought about how that usage would affect scouts.

     

    Relief aces are certainly nice to have, but you just can't predict if/when you will even need them, especially at levels of competition lower than MLB where there seems to be more uncertainty in projections.  (Ultimately Illinois did not benefit much from having a relief ace, and in fact had to switch him to starter with their season on the line anyway.)

     

    If he really was good enough to dominate as a starter, they almost certainly would have been better off working him into that role as early as his sophomore season (which seems not uncommon for college pitchers).

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    Thanks for that info Jeremy.  I hadn't thought about how that usage would affect scouts.

     

    Relief aces are certainly nice to have, but you just can't predict if/when you will even need them, especially at levels of competition lower than MLB where there seems to be more uncertainty in projections.  (Ultimately Illinois did not benefit much from having a relief ace, and in fact had to switch him to starter with their season on the line anyway.)

     

    If he really was good enough to dominate as a starter, they almost certainly would have been better off working him into that role as early as his sophomore season (which seems not uncommon for college pitchers).

     

    I think this is a key point. Whatever the reasons for using him as they did, when the season was on the line he got the start. Says something.

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    That's true, it would be no trouble to GET Jay on the 40-man roster, but there is no doubt he would likely block other prospects there this winter, and for dubious benefit.

     

    Zach Jones, Adam Brett Walker, Travis Harrison, Taylor Rogers and Tyler Duffey to name five.

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    Yeah, he's a slinger. Not a problem IMO. Release points looks pretty consistent. He gets good lateral movement on all his pitches, the changeup especially looked good in that session. He does have easy, almost sneaky velo on the fastball.

    Having seen him in person in college and MiLB, and the one who took the video from above, yes his velocity is VERY sneaky and hides the ball well.  His release point is consistent with all of his pitches which adds even more to his game.

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    I think this is a key point. Whatever the reasons for using him as they did, when the season was on the line he got the start. Says something.

     

    Thanks for that info Jeremy.  I hadn't thought about how that usage would affect scouts.

     

    Relief aces are certainly nice to have, but you just can't predict if/when you will even need them, especially at levels of competition lower than MLB where there seems to be more uncertainty in projections.  (Ultimately Illinois did not benefit much from having a relief ace, and in fact had to switch him to starter with their season on the line anyway.)

     

    If he really was good enough to dominate as a starter, they almost certainly would have been better off working him into that role as early as his sophomore season (which seems not uncommon for college pitchers).

    Alright  as an Illini alum and former player under Hartleb (he was the asst. coach at Illinois under Itch Jones) I'll come to their defense on using Jay as a Super-reliever.  Hartleb used him like teams used to use their best relievers back in the day ala Mike Marshall style (google him kids), as Coach Dan had a three starting pitchers that were taken in the MLB draft (Kevin Duchene, Rob McDonnell, Drasen Johnson).  Hartleb's philosophy paid off as the Illini had their best season in team history.  Ty Jay is good enough to start, but was insanely valuable as a reliever as he could throw in multiple games a week instead of just once.

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