Looking Way Ahead: Who Needs to be Added to the 40-Man Roster... in November

What year was Garver held back?

I can maybe see an argument that he could have skipped low A, but as a 9th round pick that struggled in a half season of rookie ball I can't really blame them for that assignment.

From then on out it looks like he was promoted appropriately.
He caught, then passed Turner, despite starting a level lower.

He had a really good year in low A his first full year in the organization.
He struggled MIGHTILY at A+ in his second year, yet the Twins didn't make him repeat high A, they promoted him to AA anyway. That's holding him back?
At AA he was better, but still not great, yet once again they didn't make him repeat, they promoted him to AAA. Is that holding him back?
At AAA he had a break out season, and was promoted to the Twins.

I guess I'm not seeing where he was held back.

He was always, pretty much, kept one level behind Turner, until it was basically impossible to deny him. That is how he was held back, and what I said before. And now.... he is being projected to regress by many, instead of improve more. I might have different glasses........

8 Players are coming off the 26 man at the end of next season.

 

Jake Odorizzi

Nelson Cruz

Marwin Gonzalez

Homer Bailey

Romo

Alex Avilia

Rich Hill

Tyler Clippard

 

There are also some very expendable players on the 40 man. Plus, it's quite likely a couple players get traded. I don't see a big problem on the horizon.

Great point. Couple of those guys are decent candidates to be back though.

Also, some would say Garver was thrust into full time duty in 2018 before he was ready, after Castro stopped playing on his injured knee.

Absolutely agree 100%.

Turner was no slouch as a prospect. And the previous FO decided to, mostly, stagger he and Garver rather than have them on the same roster. Turner was accepted as the better defensive option, and the higher selection, FWTW, even though he was less of a polished hitter.

Were Turner and Garver under the control of the current administration, even accepting their same draft selection status, which I have doubts about, I have to wonder if they wouldn't have pushed Garver faster and be would have possibly gained his MLB "sea legs" a year earlier and been more prepared in 2018 to take over for the injured Castro. Personally, I always felt he was held back somewhat.

I don't know if Rortvedt will get there first or if Jeffers will. Rortvedt was a half-season ahead of Jeffers coming into 2019. Hopefully Rortvedt is healthy and can stay healthy.

 

Yup, and a lot of times they get that information from talking to people with the Twins. Which is another reminder that the Twins love Jeffers. Rortvedt is fantastic (in my opinion and some others) at the throwing and blocking and that kind of stuff. Jeffers has had some really good framing numbers. The Twins are definitely promoting  Jeffers.

 

Hey! Look at me! I think I finally figured out how to multi-quote! LOL. Going to just be excited for myself for a moment because no matter how smart an individual I am, or pretend to be, or techno savy about certain things, I am just not a natural computer guy. So self kuddos to me. Lol

I like both comments equally. I just have a great, but feeling about Rotvedt. I have a soft place for catchers and feel they are vastly underrated. Mostly because they may be the hardest position to quantify. Everyone wants a great offensive catcher...rare as they may be...who also plays great defense. But how do you measure their defense? Is it SB %? Is it framing? Is it any of the current defensive analytics? A long time ago, even with game plannjng and sideline suggestion, an NFL QB used to call plays. Despite analytics and dugout calls, the catcher still has to call a game and have the trust of his pitcher to "work" a game together. How do you measure that sort of thing?

Rortvedt, right now, to me, is behind Jeffers due to age and bat, and because everything seems to indicate the Twins really like and believe in Jeffers. But being the current #2 in the system shouldn't diminish the ability and potential of Rortvedt as a viable, quality ML catcher with hit and power potential. Who knows how good he could yet be. But with Garver in the mix as well, I do wonder if there is room for all 3.

We talk about OF/1B/DH depth in the system, but I can't recall this much catching depth in the system for some time, if ever. A trade could be involved at some point. But this is another good problem to have.

OF/1B/DH depth is easy, catching depth is not.

 

And I don't think the Twins actually have enough catching depth to really think about trading someone unless the perfect deal arises to make them want to do it.

 

As for past catching depth, it's pretty hard to rival Mauer with Ramos in the minors. Garver may be good but he ain't Joe Mauer and while some of the prospects might be good, Ramos *at least* equalled them at the time.

 

Or, if you want to go back a few more years, Pierzynski in Minnesota with Mauer in the minors. That may have literally been the best catching depth in the history of MLB. We're talking about a guy in MLB with 20+ career WAR, followed by a guy with close to 50 career WAR.

 

Now that I think of it, the Twins have this weird ability to field some really nasty players at the ends of the field; centerfield and catcher.

How does a team field so many good/great players at those two positions over 40 years while sucking pretty hard at fielding even decent players at the other seven spots?

Now hold on for a second, Brock. I never mentioned CF. That is an entirely different topic. How far do you want to go back. Landreaux? Eisenreichm? Puckett? WHOLE different topic, which I would love to get in to.

But I was referencing catchers. I have not forgotten AJ or Ramos in any way, but you are also talking about ML career production. Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I was speaking about youth and prospect depth. Where there was AJ, tnere was Mauer. Where there was Mauer there was Ramos. And each of these scenarios was what, 8-12yrs ago or so? I was thinking of depth overall. To have Garver in place, and a couple of such interesting and exciting young prospects so close is tantalizing to me.

How about we do a whole different conversation about the history of Twins CF prospects the past 20-30yrs plus?

Keep in mind that Garver was also a terrible catcher. Was he held back because of Turner or was he held back because he was a terrible catcher?

Interesting that Garver could be a Johnny Bench Award (college baseball's top catcher) finalist (1 of 3) in both 2012 and 2013, and runner up to Turner in 2013, it he was a terrible catcher. Try to stop him now, eh?

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/awards/johnny_bench_award.shtml

No, this FO did not hold him back. The previous did, in my opinion. I know many did not appreciate Garver until recently. I read about it for years. I guess I still will.

I also think Jeffers is and should be ahead of Rortvedt (hence the original quick post), but it is great to have both near. Things can change in a wink with catchers.

Rortvedt is to Jeffers as Turner was to Garver.

No need to make the same mistake over and over.......

I strongly disagree. Rortvedt has had a consistently better stick than Turner and I don’t think Jeffers will ever be a hitter at Garvers level.

Hey! Look at me! I think I finally figured out how to multi-quote! LOL. Going to just be excited for myself for a moment because no matter how smart an individual I am, or pretend to be, or techno savy about certain things, I am just not a natural computer guy. So self kuddos to me. Lol

I like both comments equally. I just have a great, but feeling about Rotvedt. I have a soft place for catchers and feel they are vastly underrated. Mostly because they may be the hardest position to quantify. Everyone wants a great offensive catcher...rare as they may be...who also plays great defense. But how do you measure their defense? Is it SB %? Is it framing? Is it any of the current defensive analytics? A long time ago, even with game plannjng and sideline suggestion, an NFL QB used to call plays. Despite analytics and dugout calls, the catcher still has to call a game and have the trust of his pitcher to "work" a game together. How do you measure that sort of thing?

Rortvedt, right now, to me, is behind Jeffers due to age and bat, and because everything seems to indicate the Twins really like and believe in Jeffers. But being the current #2 in the system shouldn't diminish the ability and potential of Rortvedt as a viable, quality ML catcher with hit and power potential. Who knows how good he could yet be. But with Garver in the mix as well, I do wonder if there is room for all 3.

We talk about OF/1B/DH depth in the system, but I can't recall this much catching depth in the system for some time, if ever. A trade could be involved at some point. But this is another good problem to have.

3 things:

1) Can you teach me that new multi quote thingy you did? I’ve been struggling with that too.

2) I have a gut feeling about Rortvedt being a good MLB catcher some day. I’m not sure what a butt feeling is though (and you misspelled butt...)

3) I think your spot on with the rest of your comments. I believe part of The way to measure a catcher is to look at the pitchers success with various catchers.

8 Players are coming off the 26 man at the end of next season.

 

Jake Odorizzi
Nelson Cruz
Marwin Gonzalez
Homer Bailey
Romo
Alex Avilia
Rich Hill
Tyler Clippard

 

There are also some very expendable players on the 40 man. Plus, it's quite likely a couple players get traded. I don't see a big problem on the horizon.

Not all 8 of these spots will be available for new additions to the 40-man.  Unless the Twins decide to fill all 8 spots from the minor leagues, new players will be signed or traded for to fill at least half of these spots.

But the key point I get from reading Seth's post is the large number of very good prospects running into the Rule 5 threat this coming November.  Now will all or any be gone if left unprotected, no one knows.  But it sure seems to me to be a bigger problem than I recall in recent years....which is good!

Hey! Look at me! I think I finally figured out how to multi-quote! LOL. Going to just be excited for myself for a moment because no matter how smart an individual I am, or pretend to be, or techno savy about certain things, I am just not a natural computer guy. So self kuddos to me. Lol

I like both comments equally. I just have a great, but feeling about Rotvedt. I have a soft place for catchers and feel they are vastly underrated. Mostly because they may be the hardest position to quantify. Everyone wants a great offensive catcher...rare as they may be...who also plays great defense. But how do you measure their defense? Is it SB %? Is it framing? Is it any of the current defensive analytics? A long time ago, even with game plannjng and sideline suggestion, an NFL QB used to call plays. Despite analytics and dugout calls, the catcher still has to call a game and have the trust of his pitcher to "work" a game together. How do you measure that sort of thing?

Rortvedt, right now, to me, is behind Jeffers due to age and bat, and because everything seems to indicate the Twins really like and believe in Jeffers. But being the current #2 in the system shouldn't diminish the ability and potential of Rortvedt as a viable, quality ML catcher with hit and power potential. Who knows how good he could yet be. But with Garver in the mix as well, I do wonder if there is room for all 3.

We talk about OF/1B/DH depth in the system, but I can't recall this much catching depth in the system for some time, if ever. A trade could be involved at some point. But this is another good problem to have.

The outfield depth we have been talking about is somewhat misleading.  Yes, the Twins have lots of good young outfielders in the system.  But in 2019 none were pushing for jobs with the Twins.  When a couple starters went down, Buxton and Rosario/Kepler for short stints on the IL, none were available to help the Twins.  So they ended up with Cave, Wade and various infielders playing in the outfield.  

Will any of this group be available, if needed, in 2020?  I would hope so but not certain if injuries hit during spring training.

Not all 8 of these spots will be available for new additions to the 40-man.  Unless the Twins decide to fill all 8 spots from the minor leagues, new players will be signed or traded for to fill at least half of these spots.

 

But the key point I get from reading Seth's post is the large number of very good prospects running into the Rule 5 threat this coming November.  Now will all or any be gone if left unprotected, no one knows.  But it sure seems to me to be a bigger problem than I recall in recent years....which is good!

I should have elaborated. My thought is this will make for some interesting maneuvering both in terms of how they are filled, when they are filled and how that works out for managing the 40 man. Here is my guess as to how they are filled.

Jake Odorizzi – Hopefully does well and is resigned
Nelson Cruz – Sano moves from 1B to DH / Kirilloff takes 1B
Marwin Gonzalez – Internally but who IDK? There are a few possibilities.
Homer Bailey - ???
Romo – Replaced internally
Alex Avilia – Replaced by Jeffers
Rich Hill - ??? Let’s hope at least one of Bailey / Hill is replaced internally.
Tyler Clippard – Replaced Internally or I could see signing a LH RP next year.