Winners or Losers: Minnesota’s Trade History with Tampa Bay

I wouldn't argue with the winners above but all trades need a fair bit of context.  The Rays were looking to dump Odorizzi's salary and not many teams really seemed to want him. Palacios was a decent prospect at the time but giving up one maybe top 20 player was always going to be a good deal for the Twins who desperately needed pitching.  Still it was a salary dump for Tampa so they weren't looking for equal value just some value and getting rid of Odorizzi.  They were fine letting the Twins win that trade.

The deadline deal for Ryan was a fairly large overpay for Tampa but most analysts felt Ryan was destined for the pen so two guys most likely destined to be relievers for a slugger that could have a David Ortiz type impact seemed decent on paper.  It didn't work out that way but hindsight is 20/20.

I never liked the Garza trade but the Twins were desperate for a right handed power hitter and they thought they had excess pitching.  In hindsight that didn't work out well for the Twins.  

Trades are gambles.  Sometimes they work out sometimes they don't.  You just hope they help more often than hurt.

I still think with proper management and usage, Oswaldo Arcia could have been a real force in this league. I can't call it a win to give up that talent for cash considerations. He was raw and never put it together, but I am still convinced there was so much more juice there to squeeze if they only knew how. 

21 minutes ago, Dman said:

I wouldn't argue with the winners above but all trades need a fair bit of context.  The Rays were looking to dump Odorizzi's salary and not many teams really seemed to want him. Palacios was a decent prospect at the time but giving up one maybe top 20 player was always going to be a good deal for the Twins who desperately needed pitching.  Still it was a salary dump for Tampa so they weren't looking for equal value just some value and getting rid of Odorizzi.  They were fine letting the Twins win that trade.

The deadline deal for Ryan was a fairly large overpay for Tampa but most analysts felt Ryan was destined for the pen so two guys most likely destined to be relievers for a slugger that could have a David Ortiz type impact seemed decent on paper.  It didn't work out that way but hindsight is 20/20.

I never liked the Garza trade but the Twins were desperate for a right handed power hitter and they thought they had excess pitching.  In hindsight that didn't work out well for the Twins.  

Trades are gambles.  Sometimes they work out sometimes they don't.  You just hope they help more often than hurt.

Overall I would agree with this.  The Odo trade they were dealing from depth and need to cut money.  I would disagree with the Ryan for Cruz trade.  If Rays did have him slotted as a pen arm, that is on them for not seeing what he could be.  Sure he may not stay at level he has been, but I have not seen any signs of regression overall.  They may have needed a bat, but they could have found one somewhere for much less than what they gave up.  It shows at worst that they just were wrong on Ryan, which it happens because they stole Anderson from us for nothing, but maybe that will not turn out as he really only had 1 decent year, and been injured all last year and this year.

The Garza deal we got fleeced, but that is more on us.  Pretty sure Garza did not like it here and we decided to try and get a bat for him.  We were thinking on old ways of baseball at that time, not thinking bat first corner OF guys are easy to find.  We were hoping Young would be more than he was, which was not terrible but pitching is king and bat first corner OF guys, unless they are HOF bound, are easy to find. 

5 minutes ago, Trov said:

Overall I would agree with this.  The Odo trade they were dealing from depth and need to cut money.  I would disagree with the Ryan for Cruz trade.  If Rays did have him slotted as a pen arm, that is on them for not seeing what he could be.  Sure he may not stay at level he has been, but I have not seen any signs of regression overall.  They may have needed a bat, but they could have found one somewhere for much less than what they gave up.  It shows at worst that they just were wrong on Ryan, which it happens because they stole Anderson from us for nothing, but maybe that will not turn out as he really only had 1 decent year, and been injured all last year and this year.

The Garza deal we got fleeced, but that is more on us.  Pretty sure Garza did not like it here and we decided to try and get a bat for him.  We were thinking on old ways of baseball at that time, not thinking bat first corner OF guys are easy to find.  We were hoping Young would be more than he was, which was not terrible but pitching is king and bat first corner OF guys, unless they are HOF bound, are easy to find. 

It wasn't just Tampa's take on Ryan though as most of the industry thought Ryan's fastball heavy approach was going to lead to too many home runs. It seemed unlikely to translate well to MLB players who feast on fastballs. A lot of scouts didn't know how he would turn out and gave him 5th starter as his ceiling. His approach was too unusual for anyone to know until he was at the MLB level.  His secondary's were better than advertised though and I think that has made a difference.  The Rays wanted Cruz early so they upped the ante with Ryan but he was no sure thing at the time IIMO

Well, you're looking at some of this from really only Minnesota's POV and not thoroughly at that.  Odorizzi was a decent pitcher for the Twins, but what could they have done with the money saved?  Likewise, TB knows exactly what it wants to do with its $$$.  My guess is that while they struck out on Palacios, they were probably better for not having Odorizzi.  Plus, if they could have gotten someone better than Palacios (at the time) they would have.  Twins would maybe have "won" this if they hadn't given Odo $18 million, but only because the original dollars on Odo's contract would have probably not gone to good use.

Cruz for Ryan?  That was, to the Twins, nothing for Ryan.  You can't really mess this up at this point.

I was upset at the package we gave for Jepsen.

I'm still ranting about Garza/Bartlett for Delmon.  One of worst, least-researched trades ever.

I was an Arcia truther; weird times. I still wouldn't count cash considerations as a W for the Twins. Ever. 

Jepsen was so bad during that TSF season that I almost think his negative contributions outweigh the positive, but it's not a hill to die on. 

A trade is a trade. No use to cry over spilled cream. It’s time to get over these trades as a lot time has past. fO Management teams have changed out. The $18m paid to Idorizzo has nothing to do with the trade.  

4 minutes ago, Old fox said:

A trade is a trade. No use to cry over spilled cream. It’s time to get over these trades as a lot time has past. fO Management teams have changed out. The $18m paid to Idorizzo has nothing to do with the trade.  

Exactly, I always say anything that happened before tomorrow is pointless. I say, we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!

We can learn a lot from history. Aside from that, recently TB is known for pitching development and we have done well from obtaining their pitchers. On the other hand we are more known for our hitters yet our hitters haven't fared well there. Palacio was a good hitter w/ us but he moved next door to TB (same league) but couldn't hit a lick. Cruz flourished with us but could do much for TB.

I'm willing to do any trade with TB if it's not a headline pitcher.

I think the Ryan/Cruz deal may be one of the most lopsided deals in team history if Ryan becomes the player we think and hope he will. 

Delmon Young was NOT horrible. The Twins ahd three decent seasons from him, alkthough he seemed to have an ego, or was a headcase. He wanted to be recognized as being the superstar.

After the 2010 season, the Twins needed to trade him, when he ahd significant worth.

And partly, to escape paying him more than perceioved worth in 2011 and beyond, they flipped him to the Tgers for Cole Nelson and Lester Oliveros (a 100mph thrower who is still pitching).

I always got the impression that he wouldn't listen at all to coaches, and was jealous that he wasn't the face of the Twins..... Carlos Gomez got so much press right away. Then he fell into a funk. And, he was only 25 when the Twins traded him.

Matt Garza had an ego and he spent time with four other organizations in the next 7 years.

Odorizzi was okay for the Twins, catching a break in the shortened COVID season so they didn't have to pay him the full $18 million.

How the Twins got Ryan and Strotman...both needed to stay on the Rays roster, but others were on the verge of pushing them off and a hard decision needed to be made about keeping them of taking them off, thus tradebait. The Rays had too many riches in the pitching department.

While I think this kind of article and "trade chains" are fun, the fact of the matter is that trades are supposed to benefit both sides. They aren't intended to be competitive and "won."

I'm also surprised the Young/Garza trade was the first trade together in the two franchises' histories.