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  • Where Will Miguel Sano Play?


    Nick Nelson

    After taking a year off to recover from elbow surgery, Miguel Sano is back in Twins camp and opening some eyes with his prodigious power. Folks around the compound have marveled at his strength during batting practice sessions in which he has routinely driven baseballs well beyond the outfield walls.

    If Sano's bat isn't major-league ready, it is very, very close. Finding a place in the lineup for him will not be difficult. Finding a place in the field for him... well, that's another story.

    Image courtesy of Kim Klement, USA Today

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    More than two years ago, I posed this question: Is Miguel Sano too big to stay at third? At the time, he was 19 years old and listed at 240 pounds -- already as big as any third baseman in the majors. Taking all factors into account, I concluded that "the odds seem heavily stacked against him remaining at his current position, especially with an organization that values steady defense more than most."

    Now, he's shown up to camp at a whopping 260 pounds,

    . According to 1500 ESPN's Derek Wetmore, the gain occurred "because for parts of his recovery period from last year's Tommy John surgery ... [sano] wasn't able to run or do workouts like he ordinarily would."

    There's also the fact that the young slugger seems to have little interest in keeping his weight down. In his own words: "I eat everything ... I don't like the nutrition. [i eat] whatever I want. If there's something here I'm eating."

    At age 21, Sano is already bigger than basically any third baseman in baseball. Pablo Sandoval is in the conversation; he's listed at 245 but is also five inches shorter than Sano. Nevertheless, it's rare for a guy that size to stick at the hot corner, and that's before you account for the questions that already surrounded Sano's footwork, accuracy and consistency -- not to mention the challenges he faces in learning to throw with a surgically repaired elbow.

    For their part, the Twins are publicly trying to maintain optimism that Sano can stay at third, as best they can. But the skepticism shows through when you read quotes like this one from Paul Molitor:

    "I was working today on the bunt defenses; he's trying," Molitor said. "There are things that are going to be a challenge for him. We've got to keep an eye on him. He's a big boy. He carries it pretty well, but you've got to have some athleticism. He's got to keep that ... if he wants to play a corner-infield position in the big leagues, especially third base."

    The Twins had their frustrations with Trevor Plouffe's defense, at least up until last year, and there's a good chance that the hulking Dominican will make Plouffe's range and reactions -- even in those early days at third base -- look stellar by comparison. Even if he does carry his weight well, it's difficult to imagine Sano offering much in the way of lateral movement or spryness when it comes to, say, charging and fielding a bunt.

    If (when?) the Twins decide that third base just isn't going to work out, there's been some talk of moving him to an outfield corner, but that seems like a less than ideal alternative. His lack of mobility would be an issue, particularly with Oswaldo Arcia patrolling the other side, and he also has zero professional experience playing anywhere other than the infield.

    The more likely destination would be first base or designated hitter. This is unfortunate because it would mean putting his powerful arm -- rated by some scouts as an 80 on a 20-80 scale -- to waste, and even more so because it's going to be very tricky to find room for him at either of those spots.

    Joe Mauer obviously is entrenched at first base, and while many fans have pondered the notion of moving him to an outfield spot, the Twins have never openly considered such a switch. More than likely, he's going to remain at first until his contract expires in 2018.

    So we're left with DH, where Kennys Vargas is currently penciled in. Vargas is young and unproven enough that there could be an opening here, but obviously everyone is hoping he can stick and the idea of him and Sano in the same lineup is beyond tantalizing. Unfortunately, it's growing more and more difficult to see how that's going to feasibly work.

    What do you think? Where can Sano fit in if the Twins want to get his bat up as quickly as possible?

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    Paging Torii Hunter

    What is Torii Hunter going to do?  Throw a punch at him?  I think people are over estimating the effect Torii can have on this team, and will be disappointed when he isn't the clubhouse fix it all guy.

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    Sorry if this was brought up in an earlier comment, but one thing to remember is that with Sano's arm he can afford to play back a bit, giving himself a little more time to react and get to balls. That could help lessen any negative impacts that could come from some lack of athleticism required to play third.

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    Plouffe in the OF ala Cuddyer seems like the 2nd best course to me with all these guys. The first being, you trade somebody.

     

    Which sucks because I like all those guys and want them to make up the team of the future. So the weakest link among them by the time that team comes together will have to be gone to make it work, and that link might not even be 'weak'.

     

    But if we're talking 2016-2018 for that team, that link is just as likely to be Joe Mauer at that point as any of these young guys.

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    What is Torii Hunter going to do?  Throw a punch at him?  I think people are over estimating the effect Torii can have on this team, and will be disappointed when he isn't the clubhouse fix it all guy.

    I won't be disappointed, because my expectations are low. As Common says, high aspirations, low expectations. It just seems like a ripe opoprtunity IMO for the 20 year pro to, I dunno, take the talented fat kid out to lunch. Show him how to eat on the road and not put on weight. Staying in shape after his body slows down seems like something that Torii has figured out.

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    Who projects to be less a future defensive liability, Vargas as the future first baseman or Arcia as the future LF? If Mauer hits, Arcia or Vargas might need to be exchanged for a pitcher at some point.

     

    What happened to the DH spot?

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    Sano will control how this goes more than anyone else because he's by far the most talented player. If he doesn't show the dedication to conditioning and defense that the Twins want to see history indicates they'll just keep in in the minors until he cleans those issues up. He's shown in the past that he's nimble and athletic enough to handle the hot corner so every effort should be put into keeping him there. He's got a valuable if underrated player occupying his position on the big league club so there's no rush. 

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    It is time to pull the - if you want to be in the majors card = lose weight.  Nice adolescence food attitude, but if this is a hurdle - address it.  He might not like it, but the big checks in the majors are ahead and he will know it.

     

    Let's face the fact that he will not be Brooks Robinson, but then Harmon Killebrew is HOF and a long way from Brooks too.  

     

    Let's hope there is enough to push a trade where we use strength and quality to get a good return.  Plouffe should have good value now - as he ages that value goes down.  

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    From the pictures of Sano he does not look like he's over weight and I believe he's big strong kid. The Twins are going to make some tough decisions in near future and its going to be hard find playing time for a lot of these prospects. Plouffe is developing into very good third baseman and major league baseball analysts will start giving him his recognition if he has another good season this year. Its hard for players like Plouffe to get recognition right way coming from small market team. You watch here now Mauer is going to have better numbers at first base and its because of Sano and Vargas pushing to get playing time. I would think that Sano could also could be developed into corner outfielder if push comes to find him spot in line up. Arcia is going to have bring his numbers up if he wants playing time because of talent coming up he's got to cut down on his strikeouts and give better at bats. The Twins are going to have decide what players they are going to keep and who they are going to trade. Plouffe is in this category if he continues to develop will they trade him or sign him long term. if he continues and develops into one of top 10 third baseman in Major leagues which I think he could. Also Sano may be like Greg Nettles was to the Twins they thought he was to big and not good enough to play third base and traded him see how that turned out for the Twins. Its hard to know how person is going to play a position until they have played it for awhile and especially third with requirements for hitting and fielding for that position. But like I say the Twins are going to have some very tough decisions in near future because of prospects coming up and some of the players that are young making their spot with the Twins of who keep and who move improve themselves in other areas or get another prospect to help them in the future. Its going to take front office with ability to find highest quality diamond out of many diamonds they posses now and how to get future diamonds out these present diamonds.

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    The Twins must not give up on Sano at third at all right now. At all. I cannot stress the importance of this. There should be zero time defensively anywhere else right now. His value at that position could be Hall of Famer quality. That's the actual ceiling here. The floor could be a slugging DH who makes a few All-Star games.

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    The Twins must not give up on Sano at third at all right now. At all. I cannot stress the importance of this. There should be zero time defensively anywhere else right now. His value at that position could be Hall of Famer quality. That's the actual ceiling here. The floor could be a slugging DH who makes a few All-Star games.
    . Well said! Thank you!
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    . Well said! Thank you!

     

    Thank you!

     

    This whole thing again illustrates something about many Twins fans (not talking about Nick here) . . . ooh a home run monster hitter *but* maybe he strikes out too much or can't play average defense at a medium-defensive position . . . oooh, worry, worry, worry.

     

    My suggestion: shut up and watch the homers fly over your head.

     

    I am sure that Plouffe will be traded somewhat soon (deadline or offseason). I see no other real option. Even if Sano doesn't last as a third baseman, he is going to be there as much as possible through Mauer's contract.

     

     

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    A few exact height and weight NFL athletic freak comps, for athletic comparison. Figured bringing in a little football makes sense since we can see easier what one can do athletically on the FB field. 

     

    #40-  Brian Orakpo
    Outside Linebacker, Washington Redskins
    6'4, 260 lbs.
    Feat of Strength/Workout: 31 reps of 225 lb. bench press, 515 lb. bench press, 380 lb. power-clean, 4.63 sec. 40 time, 39.5" vertical leap

     

    #35-  Connor Barwin
    Outside Linebacker, Houston Texans
    6'4, 260 lbs.
    Feat of Strength/Workout: 40.5" vertical leap

     

    ............

     

    On the other hand, James Winston was rumored to be out of shape, and was 6'4'' and 231 at the combine, but was probably heavier leading up to it. That is 30 pounds lighter and was considered out of shape.

     

    Several NFL players with similar heights and weights playing TE, FB, DE, ILB, and OLB. I know Sano doesn't play in the NFL, but just trying to give an easy comp to look at what guys that size are capable of. 

     

    6'4'' and 260 could be a freak OLB or TE, or 6'4'' and 260 could be the catcher on your beer league softball team who always gets a pinch runner. 

     

     

    It could be this guy......

    http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x83/ryanf1990/21fz2.jpg?t=1192966861

     

     

    or.....

     

    it can be this guy.....

    http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z35/morningbake34/week33.jpg

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    Also, aside from the "I eat everything" anecdote, everything we actually here about Sano is that he really is a hard-worker and a very coachable player. Plouffe needed defensive coaching and has less overall athleticism as Sano. I think Sano can be fine.

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    Thank you!

     

    This whole thing again illustrates something about many Twins fans (not talking about Nick here) . . . ooh a home run monster hitter *but* maybe he strikes out too much or can't play average defense at a medium-defensive position . . . oooh, worry, worry, worry.

     

    My suggestion: shut up and watch the homers fly over your head.

     

     

    I think people enjoy the game in different ways.  Maybe some like watching good-great defense.  Maybe some think defense is much more important than some others think. Maybe some prefer baseball players who can play both quality offense and defense. 

     

    Perhaps you just care about the home runs.  That's fine.  Telling people to shut up because you believe he will do the part you care about seems, um, intolerant.

     

    And I would hope the Twins would be smart enough to keep a quality player like Plouffe, but never know.  I don't think he gets trade this season.

    Edited by jimmer
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    Good comments. Just want to clarify 2 things:

     

    1) I'm not saying Sano is "fat." He's just big. It's hard to move around and maintain mobility when you're that size, especially if he's not done growing.

     

    2) Many of you may be OK with substandard defense from Sano at third, considering how much his value is boosted over all by staying there. I might be, personally. But are the Twins? This is a team that has emphasized the importance of fielding as much as any in the league. So that's really the pertinent question.

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     Many of you may be OK with substandard defense from Sano at third, considering how much his value is boosted over all by staying there. I might be, personally. But are the Twins? This is a team that has emphasized the importance of fielding as much as any in the league. So that's really the pertinent question.

     

    And Molitor was a guy known for fundamentals and footwork.  BRef has his range factor at third with six top five finishes in the ALfrom 82 to 89.  His initial assessment of Sano has not been good.  This could be a guy whose tolerance is a little lower.

     

    Range Factor/Game as 3B s

    1982 AL  3.12 (3rd)

    1983 AL  3.07 (5th)

    1985 AL  2.88 (5th)

    1986 AL  2.77 (2nd)

    1988 AL  2.60 (5th)

    1989 AL  2.87 (3rd)

     

    I wish the Twins just threw out personal preferences and they asked Jack Goin and a third party to run an analysis.  How many balls at 3B do you think Plouffe will get to that Sano won't?  How many additional errors will Sano make?  How many of those runners will score. 

     

    Then quantify the difference in their offenses.  

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    He seems about the same size as Scott Rolen to me.

     

    He's not too big. He will have to work to keep weight off, but he's got enough athleticism and agility to play third.

    IIRC Rolen had exceptional hands. Can we say the same about Sano?

     

    Wait did I just a question about a minor leaguers defense? I'll walk myself out.

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    2) Many of you may be OK with substandard defense from Sano at third, considering how much his value is boosted over all by staying there. I might be, personally. But are the Twins? This is a team that has emphasized the importance of fielding as much as any in the league. So that's really the pertinent question.

     

    Have you seen what we plan to do in the outfield this year?  I honestly think that emphasis may be a thing of the past.

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    The 3B job is Plouffe's to lose.  The Twins will closely evalute Plouffe's performance (more than Sano's), nd if they like it--they will offer Plouffe a long-term (5-6 yr) deal.  Of course, maybe Plouffe has been offered a deal (doubt it) and refused.  And he might refuse an offer from the Twins (again?)--always a possibility.  My best guess:  Plouffe s offered a deal and accepts it, and Sao is developed to play elsewhere (probably OF).

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    Kinda love the "too big"/"too small" stuff.  I bet there were a whole bunch of people who thought that Kirby was too big and too small at the same time to play Centerfield.  Definitely people thought that Carl Ripken Junior was too big for SS.  They make Sano sound like Panda or Fielder.  And he is not that.   And if Panda (who looks like Newmie post playing years) can play third more than respectably, Sano can too.   And the Twins had a hockey goalie and a Butcher and a Lamb play third when they were "contending". 

     

    I just hope that Twins' fans see more of Sano this Spring Training and realize that he is a pretty darn alright third baseman.  Very soft hands and very good moves to both his sides.  Did have problems with the legwork during bunts when was beginning to make the transitions from SS, but everyone who does that transition has that problem.

     

    Where should Sano play?  If his elbow is 100% he should be the Twins starting third baseman.  No doubt about it.  Where will Sano play?  Start at Chatanooga for political reasons that will come with the usual bag of excuses.

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    I don't care what he weighs, I don't hear a lot of concerns about Big Papi or Miguel Cabrera.  If he hits 30-40 home runs and drives in 100 runs, I could care less if he's 350.  Maybe he'd be more suited at first base if he gets too big for third, thats just the ways it's done now days.  Ask Pujols.  Tell Mauer to out produce these guys or get his outfield glove loosened up.  We can't afford to look past production like these guys could have.  If they don't produce, then obviously Mauer will stay.

     

    Vargas and Sano could be HUGE run producers somewhere along the line.  If they can't be moved, move someone else.  

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    I think people will be saying different things about Sano's defense when they actually see him playing in MLB games.  And I think it will be an overreaction at that point but I completely expect the analysis to change.

     

    Sano doesn't lose much value by moving off of 3B.  He has huge potential due to his bat at any position.  Playing a bad 3B isn't the boost to make him an all-star level player.

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    So the scouts and the coaches who see real issues with his defense are ALL wrong?  That would be interesting.  

     

    Braun, with as great of an offensive rookie season he had, was so bad at 3B that he kept getting replaced in late innings and then was moved to the OF after his rookie season. Still a very valuable player but the Brewers knew what had to be done.

     

    On the flip-side, teams kept Reynolds too long at 3B, so between his horrible defense and the strikeouts, the HR and RBI couldn't sway people to believe he was great.

     

    If Sano is that bad on defense at 3B, and he could be, I hope the Twins move him to a corner OF spot.

    Edited by jimmer
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