Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account
  • Where Does Pelfrey Fit In?


    Nick Nelson

    His name invariably elicits a visceral response from Twins fans. When talking about how the 2015 pitching staff will shake out, nobody seems to like hearing him brought up.

    Well, like it or not (and in most cases the answer is "not"), Mike Pelfrey was signed to a two-year deal during the offseason and is owed $5.5 million next year, so he'll get his chance.

    Image courtesy of Jesse Johnson, USA Today Sports

    Twins Video

    It's easy to see why Pelfrey isn't popular among the Twins faithful. He was a mediocre pitcher in the National League before being signed. He hasn't pitched well here. He works slowly on the mound and his starts tend to drag on.

    More than that, the Twins' dealings with him have been emblematic of what frustrates a lot of folks about the way this team operates -- too much of a cater-to-the-player, bargain-seeking approach.

    When they initially signed him, they got him at a bargain price because he was coming off elbow surgery and few other teams wanted to risk relying on a player who was in recovery mode. His $4 million deal was one of the cheapest guaranteed contracts for a starting pitcher during that offseason, at a time where the Twins desperately needed quality arms.

    And this past winter, when they re-signed him, it was difficult to view his contract as anything other than a favor to a guy they liked. Who else was going to give Pelfrey multiple years coming off 13 losses and a 5.19 ERA, when he was never that great to begin with?

    I can certainly agree with those critiques, but at the same time, I think the negativity I see directed toward Pelf is over-the-top. His struggles early on in the 2013 season were completely predictable following his insanely rapid return from Tommy John, but in the final three months of the season he was solid: 4.39 ERA, 2-to-1 K/BB, just six homers allowed in 15 starts.

    I saw a lot of people using Pelfrey's poor start this year as justification for their complaints about his contract, and it always struck me as disingenuous. He was never healthy. If he was healthy and pitched badly, you could say the Twins screwed up, but I still believe that the guy we saw in the second half last season could be a decent value at $5.5 million as a fifth starter.

    Whether the Twins should have really been aiming for a fifth starter is another matter, of course, but that's all in the past so there's no use sulking about it now.

    The question, at this point, is what kind of value he can provide next year.

    If things proceed as planned, it's tough to see how he fits into the starting rotation. You have to assume that Phil Hughes, Ricky Nolasco and Kyle Gibson will all enter camp as locks. Trevor May should get a spot as long as he's not a mess during spring training. Alex Meyer should be in position to win a spot as well. He'll be 25 with a full year of Triple-A under his belt; it's time to let him roll.

    Factor in Tommy Milone, who should at least be in the mix, and there doesn't appear to be much room for Mr. Pelfrey. I don't think it's fair to penalize him for getting hurt, but he just hasn't done anything to earn a look over the younger guys.

    The best route -- and one the Twins have to be considering -- might be moving the 6'7" righty into a relief role. It actually makes a ton of sense. Too much sense.

    He's basically a one-trick pony, but that fastball he throws 80 percent of the time could be more of weapon with a few extra ticks of velocity. And with the way things have played out late in this season, it looks like the Twins may need some new blood in the bullpen next year.

    When not injured, Pelfrey has proven to have a durable and resilient arm (he basically never missed a start from 2008 through 2011), so he could turn into a guy they can use for multiple innings, or several days in a row. That has value.

    If he blossoms in that role, Pelfrey could easily be worth the $5.5 million they pay him next year. And he might uncover a new path for success in the second half of his career.

    MORE FROM TWINS DAILY
    — Latest Twins coverage from our writers
    — Recent Twins discussion in our forums
    — Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email
    — Become a Twins Daily Caretaker

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    Featured Comments

    I don't see Pelfrey getting traded this offseason as there's always guys like him looking for 1 year deals to reclaim their value. Teams aren't going to give up money and a prospect for that purpose. I could see him being added to irrevocable waivers and given the option to latch on to anyone who claims him for his salary, but I have a feeling he'd remain a Twin and go unclaimed.

     

    As for the 2015 rotation, what I want is Hughes, Nolasco, Gibson, May, and Meyer. However, I think Meyer is the odd guy out and it will be one of Pelfrey or Millone unless someone gets hurt or Meyer absolutely destroys ST while the other two stink it up. Johnson, Darnell, and Pino stick around as AAA depth and remain on the 40 man for injury callups.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Definitely bring him to spring training and give him a chance to earn a spot. If he pitches like he did down the stretch in 2013, he will have value somewhere. If the Twins don't have room, some other team will suffer an injury to their rotation and want an affordable veteran to fill in. He could easily fill the Swarzak role in the bullpen if nothing else. Only if he tanks in spring training should he be dropped. Throwing value away is a big reason the Twins are in this mess.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Folks like to point out that Pelfrey had a "good stretch", and hope that he can do that for a whole year.  Unfortunately, the good stretch is rare for the man throughout his career.  Pelfrey would fit in as a car dealer in Oklahoma, though.  Aw shucks.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Folks like to point out that Pelfrey had a "good stretch", and hope that he can do that for a whole year.  Unfortunately, the good stretch is rare for the man throughout his career.  Pelfrey would fit in as a car dealer in Oklahoma, though.  Aw shucks.

     

    You really have to dig deep to make the case for him. ERA wise, his last good year was 2010, before that 2008.  Before that never.  Those two years had pedestrian xFIP's.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    The problem with Pelfrey is that he is such and enigma.

     

    He's never been anything close to dominant or outstanding in any way. But from 2008-2011 he enjoyed 4, overall pretty solid seasons. Now, 2 were actually winning seasons with a sub 4 ERA, and 2 not very good seasons, but in each of these years he took the ball and ate innings. And I think it's obvious this is the guy the Twins were hoping to get last season. And in truth, once get got strength and feel back, he actually pitched pretty well until late season fatigue.

     

    He was not the signing I wanted last offseason after Nolasco and Hughes. There were several options I liked better, that I thought made more sense, even if you had to toss another 2-3M in to the deal. Still, I couldn't hate the idea of a depth signing based on proposed health and fresher a arm. But two years? THAT was the mistake.

     

    Still, we have him. His contract could allow the Twins to cut bait like they did with Marquis a couple years ago. Barring a rash of injuries, or a sudden "find himself" moment, there's just no room for him in the rotation. Despite several young relief options that may be ready to audition from AAA next season, and probably an even more talented mix lower in the minors that might fit in 2015 before the season is done, I feel the Twins really need to shore the bullpen up with one high quality arm to pitch the 8th, and occasionally give Perkins the night off. Could that be Pelfrey? I think it's an intriguing idea and worth investigating. It's not like you're going to be able to trade him for anything at this point.

     

    But I'd have a hard time banking on the move. I'd still make the FA move along with the Pelfrey audition. You've got nothing to lose giving him the shot, and you might get a nice payoff out of it.

     

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    How much different does Pelfrey profile than Wade Davis? Davis was a back end of rotation starter with a mid 4- to sometimes 5 era. Threw mid 90's as a starter but added velocity in bullpen. It could happen

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I think that the Twins should toy with the idea to try him as a reliever.  I suspect that he would be a better late inning option than Tonkin or Fien (Burton is gone) and maybe Perkins when all is said and done.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I don't think you would want to bring him in with runners on base. His performance drops when runners on base and pitching from stretch more than most. Any relief re would need to be one that usually starts an inning

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2015

    Hughes

    Nolosco

    Gibson

    May

    Meyer

     

    Sorry Pelfrey, no room

     

    Agreed.  It's time to move on.  We have Milone, Meyer, Pino, Darnell, Gil Martin and Berrios (by next fall).   That's PLENTY of starting options in case of injury, fatigue, failure, etc.   I don't like the thought of moving him to the bullpen either.  He's really only a one pitch pitcher (fastball).  That doesn't bode well for a reliever, especially with runners on base.  

     

    IMO he's dead weight.  If I was GM he'd be a DFA candidate.  

    Edited by laloesch
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Pelrey's 2013 stat line:  TBF  Hits  BAVGA  OBAA  BB                 K

     

                                           680   184  .300        .358    53 (7.8%)   101  (14.8%)

     

     

    Does this look like a candidate for the bullpen? I don't think so.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I don't like the thought of moving him to the bullpen either.  He's really only a one pitch pitcher (fastball).  That doesn't bode well for a reliever, especially with runners on base.  

    There are many relievers who succeed with a good fastball and one mediocre breaking pitch.

     

    The bullpen is the place to put guys like that, actually. Starters need to alter their approach - often with different pitch mixes - the second and third time through a lineup. A reliever just has to go out there and throw really hard to three batters.

     

    The biggest question surrounding Pelfrey to the pen is whether he can throw hard enough (he'll need to be in the 94-95 range) in short appearances to induce swings and misses, not whether only having a fastball is a detriment.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I can certainly agree with those critiques, but at the same time, I think the negativity I see directed toward Pelf is over-the-top. His struggles early on in the 2013 season were completely predictable following his insanely rapid return from Tommy John, but in the final three months of the season he was solid: 4.39 ERA, 2-to-1 K/BB, just six homers allowed in 15 starts.

     

    I saw a lot of people using Pelfrey's poor start this year as justification for their complaints about his contract, and it always struck me as disingenuous. He was never healthy. If he was healthy and pitched badly, you could say the Twins screwed up, but I still believe that the guy we saw in the second half last season could be a decent value at $5.5 million as a fifth starter.

    This kind of analysis ignores his pre-Twins career, though.  Pelfrey had multiple healthy ~80 ERA+ seasons with the Mets, so his 79 in 2013 isn't clearly explained by injury alone.

     

    I think his current contract and roster spot is less about his pitching talent, and more a result of the Twins desperation, relative cheapness, and perhaps also Pelfrey being a "good guy" who shares Air Force and Oklahoma connections with the Twins manager.

     

    That said, might as well give him a look as a reliever before dumping him.  I don't think his roster spot is super-critical yet, and he's probably not tradeable at this point.

    Edited by spycake
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Pelrey's 2013 stat line:  TBF  Hits  BAVGA  OBAA  BB                 K

     

                                           680   184  .300        .358    53 (7.8%)   101  (14.8%)

     

     

    Does this look like a candidate for the bullpen? I don't think so.

     

    Care to compare with Perkins' and Nathan's line their last year as starters?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Care to compare with Perkins' and Nathan's line their last year as starters?

    How any years did ittake for Perkins and Nathan to become competent relief pitchers?  Did they spend time in the minors in the transistion?  How old were they? (Younger?) Were they paid anything close to $5 MMat the time of their conversion? 

     

    Pelfrey is a one-pitch thrower.  He doesn't miss many bats and he's too old to place in the minors to be retrained/requalified.  Plus, there is no reason to think he would accept his change--ala` Correia.  As posted earlier there is always  looking for a cheap starter--so find them and make a deal.  Let someone else pay to retrain Pelfrey as a relief guy.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    When are people going to get it through their heads that a 4.39 ERA is no longer "solid" in this era of baseball? It's just bad.

     

    But back to the point of the article, I do think he could make a good reliever. I hope the Twins have that in mind.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    The average xFIP- of all qualified relievers in 2014 is 92.0.

     

    The average xFIP- of qualified relievers who throw between 70% and 90% fastballs is 94.1 (n=25). Those with an average velocity above 95.0 mph (n=7) have an average xFIP- of 86.9. Those with an average FB velocity between 93.0 and 94.9 (n=8) have a xFIP- of 97.8. And those with an average FB velocity between 91 and 92.9 (n=6) have an average xFIP- of 101.6.

     

    As reliant as Pelfrey is on the fastball, its going to come down to the radar gun. 95+ or bust.

    Edited by Willihammer
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    In the AL this year the k/bb ratio drops from 2.74 to 2.50 when moving from low to high leverage. The OPS against is actually .003 lower in high leverage situations. Pelfrey k/bb ratio drops from 2.19 to 1.02 when moving from low to high leverage. His OPS against increases from .716 to .801 over his career.

     

    It is hard to see how he would be able to have a significant role in the pen beyond mop up.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Pitchers can completely change when moved to the bullpen.  Pelfrey has a few things that could make him a great reliever.  It's at least a plan where the Twins could get a little value out of him.  He has a chance to be a mediocre starter but that's the best case as a starter.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    There's no such thing as a "lock" for a rotation spot more than 6 months before the season even starts. Too much crap... most of it bad, assuming the Twins luck continues to run the way it has... can happen between now and Opening Day 2015.

     

    You don't know what kind of pitcher Pelfrey will be in April and you can't be any more certain about any of the other rotation candidates. Injuries happen. Cutting him loose now, for no compelling reason, would just be stupid.  

     

    If... BIG IF... there comes a point in the offseason when his 40 man roster spot is needed for a new FA or someone you trade for or to protect a young player from being lost in the Rule 5 draft, then yes, Pelfrey's spot is one you would have to consider opening up. But unless/until that happens, you bring him to ST with everyone else and you see whether he slots in somewhere based on everyone's performances and potential at that time.

    Exactly. Why agonize about ANY of the half-dozen or so pitchers that represent much-needed rotation depth? I don't recall anyone specifically predicting that Pelfrey would be lost for the season, but we know what happens historically as far as injuries go. In spite of Pelfry's absence, in 2014 both the Twins rotation and the Rochester rotation were improved talent-wise over 2013. I expect to check bad a year from now and see another year of better talent in both Rochester and Minneapolis. None of us can predict if Pelfrey will factor into this.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Pitchers can completely change when moved to the bullpen.  Pelfrey has a few things that could make him a great reliever.  It's at least a plan where the Twins could get a little value out of him.  He has a chance to be a mediocre starter but that's the best case as a starter.

    I hope the a Twins build their bullpen without Pelfrey. I just looked at some recent Twin relievers and how they fared as starters in Perkins, Hawkins and Nathan. All three were failed starters. None of the three has showed more than normal difficulty in high leverage situations. I don't see how the Twins would consider pitching someone in relief where there are such obvious struggles in high leverage situations or with runners on base. While he may have a good ERA in the role, he is certain to give up a high rate of inherited runners. If he can't win a job in the starting rotation, they need to release him and develop a younger pitcher in relief that will eventually grow into a late inning role

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On inside twins this morning, TR said only Hughes is a lock for the rotation next year. I got the distinct feeling he is not happy with the whole lot of them. My guess is that any role is going to be earned in spring training

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On inside twins this morning, TR said only Hughes is a lock for the rotation next year. I got the distinct feeling he is not happy with the whole lot of them. My guess is that any role is going to be earned in spring training

    I hope he's frustrated... I also hope that saying "only Hughes is a lock"... I hope it isn't an example of that frustration. It sounds like the kind of thing you say when you are frustrated but it ends up not being the case when reality shines it light in a much calmer tomorrow.

     

    I hope he truly means it and I hope we truly have a flat out competition for rotation spots in 2014. The Pitching has to improve or the arrival of Buxton and Sano will be marginalized.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On inside twins this morning, TR said only Hughes is a lock for the rotation next year. I got the distinct feeling he is not happy with the whole lot of them. My guess is that any role is going to be earned in spring training

    I was listening to that interview too - I don't think I heard Pelfrey's name mentioned even once. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Pelrey's 2013 stat line:  TBF  Hits  BAVGA  OBAA  BB                 K

     

                                           680   184  .300        .358    53 (7.8%)   101  (14.8%)

     

     

    Does this look like a candidate for the bullpen? I don't think so.

     

    Most bullpen arms are guys who stunk it up as starters.  Some figure it out and make a nice career for themselves (Perkins) others fade away (Frankie Rodriquez). 

     

    Perkins by the way only took one year to go from terrible starter to competent relief pitcher.  2010 is decieving as he was bad in 13 relief appearances at the MLB level, but he was actually still starting in Rochester nearly all year long (and he was awful).  2011 was his out of options year and in his first year of full time relief role, he was fantastic.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I was listening to that interview too - I don't think I heard Pelfrey's name mentioned even once. 

    Correct.  I think the reality is that Nolasco is in there but I think he was sincere in saying rotation spots will be earned in spring training regardless of where you pitched last year.  I took this to mean that May is no cinch to be in the rotation next year and that Meyer could be.

     

    He also sounded aggravated that, when we have all these pitchers hanging around, we are giving spot starts to Swarzak.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...