Urshela Ushers in New Hope at Third Base

"Before Opening Day, Byron Buxton called the atmosphere in the clubhouse “night and day” different as opposed to last season. That may not be directly tied to Donaldson, but there’s no shortage of instances where he’s been seen as someone who could rub people the wrong way."

How long before we can stop scapegoating Donaldson? 

Yeah unless Donaldson can pitch there wasn't much more he could do to help last years team.  The starting pitching just wasn't good enough and with pen imploding early in the season it just wasn't going to happen.  Buxton was also hurt a good portion of the season and a lot of our hitters started out slow as well.

Donaldson had a a solid season last year and at times tried to fire up his team mates. He was far from the biggest issue with the team last year.

FWIW I wasn't a fan of the Urshela Move.  He is making me look like an idiot so far.  It is very early and super small sample sizes but he has been solid at the plate and in the field. I am coming around to this guy. 

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

"Before Opening Day, Byron Buxton called the atmosphere in the clubhouse “night and day” different as opposed to last season. That may not be directly tied to Donaldson, but there’s no shortage of instances where he’s been seen as someone who could rub people the wrong way."

How long before we can stop scapegoating Donaldson? 

What are people scapegoating Donaldson about in your opinion? He wasn’t a pitcher. He held up his end of the bargain on the field. It may be Donaldson moving on that changed the clubhouse, it may be the other players who left. Thing is that nobody would be blaming Donaldson anything beyond the clubhouse. He was not known to be tactful or positive. If other players were also that way in a losing season that clubhouse would not be a pleasant place. 

3 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

"Before Opening Day, Byron Buxton called the atmosphere in the clubhouse “night and day” different as opposed to last season. That may not be directly tied to Donaldson, but there’s no shortage of instances where he’s been seen as someone who could rub people the wrong way."

How long before we can stop scapegoating Donaldson? 

I don't think anyone is using JD as a scapegoat. I do know chemistry in the clubhouse, work place or household is one of the most important things to success. Was JD a guy that rallied the team or brought them together? Not sure but I certainly haven't heard great things about his leadership abilities. 

As a close follower of this team, it does appear to me that something special seems to be happening with this clubhouse.

Now getting Kepler and Sano to start hitting would also be a HUGE plus.

I've argued for some time that "dumping"  Donaldson with $ or prospects spent to rid the Twins of his contract was a huge mistake because he's a quality hitter and quality defensive player despite his lower range. The guy has great hands and a great arm, despite his limited range. And he more than proved himself yet again with the bat in 2021. He remains a fine 3B defensively, with limited range, and a potentially big bat.

BUT, Correa, even for 1yr, replaces Donaldson's offense and defense, especially considering we are talking SS vs 3B, though I value both spots as being almost as important. 

So did the Twins actually downgrade as much at 3B as they upgraded SS? Isn't that the real question? Time will tell. But when you add, for 1 season, one of the best SS in all of baseball, who's offense pretty much matches what you could expect from a good Donaldson, plus add Arraez at 3B, and Miranda waiting in the wings, have the Twins really downgraded at 3B? 

The Urshela at 3B from 2019 to now is good to great defensively. The Urshela addition is offensively great to good. With the Yankees, ST, early returns from 3 games played, he can play the position very well. In fact, considering his ML experience at SS, I might be inclined, if I were Rocco, to just keep Polanco at 2B and let Urshela or Gordon play SS for a day to keep a better status quo defensively rather than move Polanco. 

He is a late blooming, quality glove player who has potential to make a real difference for the Twins in 2022. He has a great glove. He has hit ability. He has power. He has experience. But his future potential is limited. Unless he surprises us beyond expectation, how is he not just a good placeholder for Miranda, with Arraez being part of the equation?

Yankee players and fans were not pleased with the Gio trade....not because of Donaldson, but because Ushela was known to be a glue guy in that dugout.  His teammates loved him and he's amazing in the community.  If you've never played the game, you might not know how important the vibe in the dugout is.  Not "scapegoating" Donaldson at all (and who knows if Buxton's comments were about him) but Gio is going to provide things that aren't going to show up in stats. 

3 hours ago, old nurse said:

What are people scapegoating Donaldson about in your opinion? He wasn’t a pitcher. He held up his end of the bargain on the field. It may be Donaldson moving on that changed the clubhouse, it may be the other players who left. Thing is that nobody would be blaming Donaldson anything beyond the clubhouse. He was not known to be tactful or positive. If other players were also that way in a losing season that clubhouse would not be a pleasant place. 

I don't recall a single negative thing publicly said about Donaldson by teammates during his Twins tenure; and I haven't heard one since his departure either. We don't have to enjoy some aspects of his personality, and I'm on record saying I haven't, but we're also not in the clubhouse with him. To not so subtly imply that his presence created a toxicity that brought the team down last year is most certainly scapegoating him.

3 hours ago, twinssporto said:

I don't think anyone is using JD as a scapegoat. I do know chemistry in the clubhouse, work place or household is one of the most important things to success. Was JD a guy that rallied the team or brought them together? Not sure but I certainly haven't heard great things about his leadership abilities. 

As a close follower of this team, it does appear to me that something special seems to be happening with this clubhouse.

Now getting Kepler and Sano to start hitting would also be a HUGE plus.

I recall a TD article last summer that drew a somewhat similar parallel and was immediately called out. I get that rose tinted glasses are out in full force early in the year, but comparing the current vibe, after 4 games, to a miserable 89 loss team, and implying that trading Donaldson is "addition by subtraction," is the definition of scapegoating to me. 

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I don't recall a single negative thing publicly said about Donaldson by teammates during his Twins tenure; and I haven't heard one since his departure either. We don't have to enjoy some aspects of his personality, and I'm on record saying I haven't, but we're also not in the clubhouse with him. To not so subtly imply that his presence created a toxicity that brought the team down last year is most certainly scapegoating him.

What gain is there for anyone to complain publicly? A strange pandemic tear and a losing year is not the time to complain about someone. Even now, Buxton did not call anyone out.. The quote from Buxton did not imply toxicity. I have more than a few years in working with a group of people. When a person who hasn’t exactly been a ray of sunshine with their alpha personality leaves,, the atmosphere changes. It is not that the person ever brought you down in mood, but it sure nicer when they are gone

22 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Buxton doesn't have to directly tie his comment to Donaldson, when others who haven't met Donaldson are absolutely willing to do it for him. 

Social Media just doing what it does... Making sure every person is labelled. 

OK,you are now labeled as delightfully thoughtful 

Assuming no injuries to Urshela, how far off is Miranda? I do like Urshela as a solid defensive 3rd baseman but he's not going to be a cornerstone for us.  Is Urshela going to be moved after this year? Are we looking at a rookie left side in 2023 with Miranda and Lewis?

I love labels, in fact, my company makes them. Think beer and food labeling. ?

This is ridiculous.....Buxton said the atmosphere is better this year....the writer ran with that and assumed it was in regard to Donaldson.  Ahhhhhhh.....you think it's just as likely (or more likely) that the addition of a clubhouse favorite like Gio, combined with the acquisition of a consummate pro like Corea was what he was referring to?????  The roster from this year to last year has been overhauled.  We're making story of a non-story.  

Without Buck explaining his comment more everyone is just speculating.  He did not name names or say anyone in particular.  He did not even say it was different from start of last season.  Sometimes when teams are losing it leads to bad club house too.  Yes, Donaldson is known to say things that rub people wrong way, never reported that I know of to be his teammates though. 

I have long argued good clubhouse is important in baseball though.  Unlike in some other sports, baseball you spend every day, including weekends, with your teammates from late February to hopefully late October.  Unlike people with normal jobs we get weekends away from co-workers we do not like, or can change jobs easier.  

11 hours ago, old nurse said:

What gain is there for anyone to complain publicly? A strange pandemic tear and a losing year is not the time to complain about someone. Even now, Buxton did not call anyone out.. The quote from Buxton did not imply toxicity. I have more than a few years in working with a group of people. When a person who hasn’t exactly been a ray of sunshine with their alpha personality leaves,, the atmosphere changes. It is not that the person ever brought you down in mood, but it sure nicer when they are gone

I'm glad we seem to agree that the implication is unfounded. 

My OP is about the lens through which Buxton's comments are being filtered, i.e. what's being written about them. 

Tonight's game sums up how this season will play out.  Arraez sucks in the field and we have a "Pickup" pitcher put in a high leverage position in the 8th inning. News flash: Carrera wins MVP while Twins lose 90 games 9-5.

The Twins absolutely need Urshela to be the best player he has ever been. Arraez is such a tough hitter but we saw again tonight why he isn't a regular. Three missed plays in one game hurts. He is best at second base and that can only happen once a week at most. Perhaps Arraez can DH more often. Urshela does have a decent glove.

12 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I'm glad we seem to agree that the implication is unfounded. 

My OP is about the lens through which Buxton's comments are being filtered, i.e. what's being written about them. 

By history Donaldson can be quite the unpleasant fellow, so there is foundation

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

By history Donaldson can be quite the unpleasant fellow, so there is foundation

Is it reasonable to assume Donaldson was at least part of the problem?  Sure, but there were many other subtractions and several additions.  It seems most reasonable to conclude the net of those changes has resulted in a better atmosphere.  However, I have seen instances professionally where the removal of one or two individuals had a big impact on culture.

Urshela is the type of player who frequently flies under the radar while coming up in the Minor Leagues. As he's coming up he doesn't "profile" for a typical power position. He was more of a contact-oriented hitter coming up which dinged his plate discipline metrics. He struck out at a better than average rate. Lot of fly balls without HR totals that make you think power production, however he did show power beneath the surface. He had a poor showing in his 1st taste of the big leagues. He performed well multiple times at 3A before "breaking out" in CLE. As a Minor Leaguer and young player in CLE he had the underrated skill combo of above-average defense and good to very good contact rates. Without traditional power totals these are the type of players who many people don't see coming. He was a skilled player rather than a tools player.

11 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Is it reasonable to assume Donaldson was at least part of the problem?  Sure, but there were many other subtractions and several additions.  It seems most reasonable to conclude the net of those changes has resulted in a better atmosphere.  However, I have seen instances professionally where the removal of one or two individuals had a big impact on culture.

It is more than reasonable to think Donaldson was part of the problem. Some of what I read led me to believe he is not supportive of struggling players and not exactly kind about it.

It is amazing how one caustic person can have an effect on a group. I would guess winning mutes it, losing exacerbates it. 

We were a staff that covered 2 units. They decided to split the staffs and have separate staffs for the 2 units. One staff was to cover the more desired unit, The other staff the dumping grounds. The caustic group ended up on one unit, The B team of your not good enough ended up on the other. The management asked me to lead the B team. It was the best experience working with a group of hard working people that were generally happy people working in hell. 

On 4/13/2022 at 5:58 PM, old nurse said:

On 4/13/2022 at 6:27 AM, Major League Ready said:

 

It is more than reasonable to think Donaldson was part of the problem.

Perhaps, except for every player on record has had nothing but praise for Josh Donaldson. I searched articles from Oakland to Toronto to Cleveland to Atlanta to Minnesota to the Yankees and each time the posts are positive regarding JD as a teammate.

I wonder if he was an irritant to GMs, managers, and reporters and this seems possible because there is not a similar track record of support from the management types and Josh called writers out for lazy questions and innuendo. He actually called out a reporter for this in his first press conference in NYC and his teammates absolutely loved it. 

Maybe someone (Falvey, Baldelli) will eventually come clean and explain this trade but for now it is totally guess work based on personal thoughts, some of which are quite unfortunately tied to money.

13 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Perhaps, except for every player on record has had nothing but praise for Josh Donaldson. I searched articles from Oakland to Toronto to Cleveland to Atlanta to Minnesota to the Yankees and each time the posts are positive regarding JD as a teammate.

I wonder if he was an irritant to GMs, managers, and reporters and this seems possible because there is not a similar track record of support from the management types and Josh called writers out for lazy questions and innuendo. He actually called out a reporter for this in his first press conference in NYC and his teammates absolutely loved it. 

Maybe someone (Falvey, Baldelli) will eventually come clean and explain this trade but for now it is totally guess work based on personal thoughts, some of which are quite unfortunately tied to money.

What you read was what you read. I read what I read. 

A team sets their budget, a GM should maximize how it is spent. The deal for Correa was more than probable when the trade was made.