Twins Trade Kintzler To Nationals

Kintzler himself already suggested it was a possibility, so obviously he doesn't share your sentiment. I also doubt he's too upset about getting to leap from a non-playoff team to a World Series contender where he can showcase himself for the only significant free agent contract he'll ever get.

Isn't that just a politeness comment? I really doubt he means, "If you guys want me back, I don't care if 29 other teams outbid you, I'm yours.' Of course he's not upset being dealt, why in the world would he be? He just left a team that is adrift out on a rocking lifeboat bobing around listlessly with out enough food and water for everyone (the fans) to make it back to shore. The only significant contract he'll ever get? That remains to be seen.

Agree 100% (except the use of the phrase "secret sauce" which I dislike).

Apologies. I also dislike the phrase and am sorry I used it. It's on par with "let's unpack this."

I think Kintzler is a better pitcher than Capps. Twins should have asked for more. Nationals might not be a good partner to do business with.

 

Isn't that just a politeness comment? I really doubt he means, "If you guys want me back, I don't care if 29 other teams outbid you, I'm yours.' Of course he's not upset being dealt, why in the world would he be? He just left a team that is adrift out on a rocking lifeboat bobing around listlessly with out enough food and water for everyone (the fans) to make it back to shore. The only significant contract he'll ever get? That remains to be seen.

 

It may be, it may not be. But I don't see any reason for hard feelings and I'm not sure why you're suggesting there is.

 

Nobody is talking about him taking a discount to come back here either, so you can drop that argument. If the Twins put in a competitive offer and he enjoyed his time here, which his comments suggest, then they have a shot to get him back. And if not then he was probably going to walk at the end of the year anyways and we're in the exact same position we are now, with no Kintzler on the 2018 roster. Except now we have one more lotto ticket in the system.

 

Edit: And I say "the only significant contract he'll ever get" because he turns 33 tomorrow and has had a pretty unconventional career path to date. He's not going to be getting any multi-year deals when he's 36+.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Taildragger8791

 

This is a very odd way to evaluate a trade, but I'll just state the obvious. Matt Capps was not a free agent 2 months after the Twins acquired him. They traded for 2 months + 1 year

 

The point is, they traded a rock solid young, controllable catcher, that everyone knew was a stud, for a zipless RH reliever that made Ron Davis look like an All-Star.

 

Because,... the media wanted a "closer".

It may be, it may not be. But I don't see any reason for hard feelings and I'm not sure why you're suggesting there is.

 

Nobody is talking about him taking a discount to come back here either, so you can drop that argument. If the Twins put in a competitive offer and he enjoyed his time here, which his comments suggest, then they have a shot to get him back. And if not then he was probably going to walk at the end of the year anyways and we're in the exact same position we are now, with no Kintzler on the 2018 roster. Except now we have one more lotto ticket in the system.

 

Edit: And I say "the only significant contract he'll ever get" because he turns 33 tomorrow and has had a pretty unconventional career path to date. He's not going to be getting any multi-year deals when he's 36+.

get your comment, my comment about his resigning is if he has a good playoff run and commands more on a new contract his deal was wasted today(Watson or who ever) and if he ends up more expensive next year than keeping him today may have been a better choice. As for how old he is, I didn't realize his age, you are right this may be his only big contract time at his age.

 

The Twins traded Eduardo Nunez last year and got a guy who was MLB ready. The guy (Mejia) has been a work in progress this season but he's been at the very least a decent back end pitcher, this his rookie season. He is just 24 years old.

 

Will any of the prospects we received for Garcia and Kintzler be playing at Mejia's level by this time next season? Enns is 26 and at this point will be lucky to have a journeyman career. What about the rest of the dudes we acquired? Will any of them be "next year's Mejia"? Will Littell win 10 games in a Twins MLB uniform next year? Will Watson? If not, then what the heck were the Twins thinking? We've been "waiting 2 more years" forever and they keep pushing the end-date for this rebuild back.

Littell is pitching significant better at AA as Mejia was at the same age. I'll take waiting an extra year in favor of the higher upside. Think you're underrating Enns as well. He's definitely the throw in but he's pitched well at every level and does a decent job at missing bats. I'm betting he contributes next year.

Except it's highly unlikely the Twins will win this season and both guys they traded are free agents after the season. I simply don't see much downside here.

 

Agreed.

 

Not opposed to bringing Kintzler back in a role. I seriously doubt he gets a big money offer. If he does, bless him and move on. And I argued just recently Garcia could pitch well for 2 months, enjoy his stay here, and be offered to re-sign. And it could still happen. But the fact is, both guys were going to be FA. Murphy didn't fit in with the Twins, and things simply didn't work out for him here. Hey...it happens. Any future success he may have shouldn't indict the Twins going forward.

 

But we moved a pair of impending FA, one a possible/probable rental player and a guy we picked up on the scrap heap for nothing, (No disrespect, just truth, I like Kintzler), and a catcher who just couldn't find it with the Twins and didn't seem to fit for:

 

1] A smallish LH pitcher with some nice secondary stuff dominating AA and could be an interesting bullpen piece, maybe soon.

 

2] A tall, strapping LHSP who is only 20 in A ball, hits low 90's, gets SO, decent control and has projectability.

 

3] A RHSP with a 4 pitch mix who did well in A+ ball before moving to AA where he has been even better with higher SO numbers.

 

4] A 26yo LHSP, who missed a season due to TJ surgery if no have my facts straight, who is performing quite well at AAA who offers, at least, depth and maybe a quality pen arm.

 

I want to hate these moves because our surprising Twins didn't have enough pieces, or added pieces, to keep alive a wild card dream. But when I step back and look at reality, and see these moves in full context, I can't hate them, and even like them.

 

Hopefully, Belisle and Giminez can be moved for a couple solid A prospects, one of which I hope will be a catcher.

It is OK to build toward 2019 and beyond.... The build is just as fun as the payoff.....1982-1987 was a fun and intersting to watch the nucleus mature and then have pieces added at the right time (with a  little luck mixed in which all WS teams need at some point) .  

 

I am disappointed to get a low-A pitcher. Dealing one of the best relievers on the market for a guy who is years away? The Twins couldn't have done better dealing Kintzler to another team? A lot of things have to go right for Watson to make an impact. Think the Twins could have done better. I do like that half a mill in cash, though.

I haven't read to see if someone's responded to this, but consider the logic for a moment.  First, the low A guy is now on your team for a year or two before you have to place him on your 40 man roster.  In essence, the cost to keep this relatively valuable commodity is free.

 

Whether you trade Kintzler or not, his 40 man spot opens up.  Over the winter you get the chance to fill this spot the way you want to fill this spot.  That may be through free agency or as part of a different trade.

 

Whatever the Twins do to fill that spot, they could not have gotten Watson to keep for free if they had traded for a good young player with lots of upside.   That's obvious.  Now find me a team that will deal a good young player with lots of upside for Kintzler.  It ain't happening.

 

Hey, here's something you can do, if you want.  You can get both Watson and Kintzler for the cost of Kintzler by paying for Kintzler in free agency.  But my bet is that when Kintzler becomes available the Twins will look elsewhere with their money.

 

In other words, the best play to make here that is something another team would actually do is to trade Kintzler for a far away prospect.

 

The Twins traded Eduardo Nunez last year and got a guy who was MLB ready. The guy (Mejia) has been a work in progress this season but he's been at the very least a decent back end pitcher, this his rookie season. He is just 24 years old.

 

Will any of the prospects we received for Garcia and Kintzler be playing at Mejia's level by this time next season? Enns is 26 and at this point will be lucky to have a journeyman career. What about the rest of the dudes we acquired? Will any of them be "next year's Mejia"? Will Littell win 10 games in a Twins MLB uniform next year? Will Watson? If not, then what the heck were the Twins thinking? We've been "waiting 2 more years" forever and they keep pushing the end-date for this rebuild back.

I'm very afraid of being put on double-secret probation for what I might say here,   I'll start with this: do you know who traded Mejia to the Twins?  Does he value his farm system (in trades) the same way other GMs do?  Does he overpay compared to other GMs?  And finally, was his team a possible trading partner this season?

 

Also, how good is Mejia?  Is he that much better than Littel?  Any better?  All I know is that the Twins won't have to use a 40-man spot to find out yet, and they can use it on someone they know is ready (Gonsalves, Enns, free agent) while not having to start Littel and Watson's clock.

 

And even though I don't think Mejia is necessarily where he needs to be, are you telling me you had confidence in Mejia at this time last year?  Last year, instead of spending $4 million for two guys (Littel and Watson) who are free to keep in the system and two more who may be immediately helpful, they gave up Nunez (who's opportunity cost could have landed a Littel) and Alex Meyer for someone (Mejia) no better than Meyer and a guy just like Enns (Busenitz).

 

Glass half full: the Twins made it fun to watch for four months.

Glass half empty: they teased us with unsustainable hope for four months.

 

It was better than being out of contention in April like they were last year.  

Probably a better plan than "DRAFT ALL RELIEVERS!"

 

This post reads like a Norm MacDonald punchline.

The trade was made with what's happened in July in mind, not what might have happened last off season. Adding two mid level relievers would not have made this team a contender. The SP simply would not allow that. Throw in an offense that I still think has not matured, and lack of a lynchpin SS and you really aren't a contender. Relying on some other teams slow start to a season to chase a second WC slot is not the groundwork for a solid orginisation. We traded away two very mid level pitchers from a team that is not yet ready to play with the big boys. And since Kintlzler is a FA, we can resign him in the off season if we want to pony up the cash.

 

I asked the same question-- apparently its 2017 money and (also apparently) there are a couple of 15 year olds (yes, 15 year olds) who will soon turn 16 that the Twins are interested in.

 

Yeah, I think the IFA signing period starts on July 2 and runs for a year, with only those prospects who had reached the qualifying age eligible to be signed immediately. Having some dry powder to go after one or two more promising prospects might be huge, especially this hunting season, although we'll probably have a hard time figuring out how they applied the money out there.

 

I really like the Kintzler trade, enough maybe to forgive Falvine for pulling a Ryan over the winter regarding the bullpen. In addition to the IFA opportunity(ies), I'm not so sure we're appreciating this Tyler Watson piece enough. My guy Sickles described him in fairly glowing terms pre-season as "a highly intriguing prospect with breakthrough potential." Despite "only" giving him a Felix Jorge-like C+ grade, he gave Watson his Sleeper Alert label, and it looks as if he's spot on in his assessment. So, the guy's stock should be on the rise somewhat, and he already ranked #14 in the National's system despite being 3 years away. So yes, he'll probably wash out at AAA like most guys who are described in glowing term like this, but maybe he's an outlier. As an aside I wonder if the board isn't a bit under-appreciative as well of both Littell and Moya.

 

And remember, these two gets are for Kintzler, and I'm with thrylos here in viewing Kintzler's real value as that of a rental setup guy. Losing him won't detract much from my enjoyment of watching this team play, and I'm not of the belief that the quality of ball we're going to see the remainder of the season has just taken a nosedive with the subtractions of Garcia and Kintzler. I don't know who it's gonna be, but I'm not anticipating this big drop-off. Maybe Busenitz, Curtiss, Reed, Gee, Slegers come up and plug in much like Hildenberger has done this year.

Edited August 1, 2017 by birdwatcher

 

Except it's highly unlikely the Twins will win this season and both guys they traded are free agents after the season. I simply don't see much downside here.

 

Good point about Garcia and Kintzler being free agents after the season.

Your dating yourseld, old nurse.   I wonder how many people on TD know who Samantha Stevens is??

Chief?