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  • What Would an Ideal Trade Deadline Look Like for The Twins?


    Nick Nelson

    We've been covering the upcoming trade deadline from every angle here at Twins Daily, with a regular stream of articles exploring various targets, and series of PDFs for Caretakers breaking down each division. 

    After taking it all in, and making a realistic assessment of the Twins' situation and needs, here's way I've landed as a perfect plan.

    Image courtesy of Kirby Lee-USA TODAY Sports

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    Now, to be clear: this plan is designed to make the Twins credible postseason contenders, not World Series favorites. I'm not of the mind that they should go "all in" and trade premium future capital for the sake of a short-term push, because I don't think they're at a point of overall team quality where it makes sense to significantly sacrifice the future.

    With that said, opportunities like this are not guaranteed to come along often, and when you find yourself in this position you've got to take a shot. I think these moves would help the Twins address their key weaknesses in a meaningful way and set themselves up for postseason success without selling the farm.

    Here are five completely speculative ideas for hypothetical trades:

    Acquire SP Noah Syndergaard from Angels for INF Keoni Cavaco and LHP Devin Smeltzer

    I'll be honest: I have no idea what it'll take to get Syndergaard. He'll have a market, for sure, but he's nowhere near the top of the value chart among available starters. Having signed a one-year, $21 million deal with the Angels during the offseason, he's due about $7 million in the final two months, and a free agent in waiting.

    Syndergaard has been solid this season, but far from his electric pre-surgery norm. His velocity hasn't fully returned since 2020 Tommy John surgery and his strikeouts are way down. In some ways, you're betting on him clicking down the stretch, kind of like Justin Verlander did in 2017.

    Is it likely? No, especially to that extent. But even if he stays the current course Syndergaard is a solid pitcher – a clear upgrade over anyone in the Twins rotation not named Gray or Ryan – and a respectable postseason option. And the cost can't be that high.

    Like I said, I have no idea what a realistic return for Syndergaard looks like, but the one suggested above feels plausible. The Angels get back 2019's #13 overall draft pick in Cavaco, who has struggled early in the minors but is still only 21 and showing signs of breaking through at Single-A. The Angels are likely familiar with SoCal native and former prep star. Smeltzer adds a bit of floor to the ceiling-focused deal for LA – a solid MLB starter or swing man with three years of team control remaining.

    If this package proves to be too light, I'm okay giving up a bit more. I really want Syndergaard on the Twins, and this feels like a once-in-a-lifetime chance to make that happen..

    Acquire RP Daniel Bard from Rockies for LHP Cade Povich

    David Robertson is the biggest prize among deadline relief rentals, and that means someone's gonna have to grossly overpay for him. That might also be true of Bard, who's probably the second-best closer among impending free agents, but less so. As great as he was in the first half for Colorado, Bard can't escape the shadow of his track record, which includes a seven-year break from the major leagues after he got the yips in his late 20s and lost the strike zone. 

    That history is out of sight, with Bard back to dominating this year behind triple-digit heat ... but it's not out of mind. Last year he posted a 5.21 ERA out of the Rockies bullpen with the same top-notch fastball velo. He's the definition of a volatile asset. And giving up Povich – a third-rounder from last year's draft, averaging 12.1 K/9 at High-A ball and Twins Daily's #10-ranked prospect in the organization – for such a volatile short-term asset is a tough pill to swallow. But with the competition for back-end bullpen arms, it may take something like that. 

    It's worth it to get the high-impact late-inning weapon that the Twins need to protect and complement Jhoan Duran. But I'm not stopping there.

    Acquire RP Matt Moore from Rangers for INF Edouard Julien and RHP Sawyer Gipson-Long

    The Rangers hit gold on their spring signing of Moore to a minor-league deal, seeing him blossom in a full-time relief role with a 1.61 ERA, 2.57 FIP, and 10.1 K/9 rate in 44 ⅔ innings through 33 appearances. 

    Just like with Bard, the Twins would be buying high on a veteran impending free agent with a wobbly track record, but as in that case, the metrics fully back up his excellence up to this point. The lefty Moore has been extremely effective, and could bring much-needed length to a bullpen that's been leaned on heavily. Moore has recorded more than three outs in more than half of his appearances for Texas (17) including two full innings in 13 of them.

    Julien and Gipson-Long are both intriguing players having good seasons in the 15-20 range of Minnesota's top prospect list. The Rangers would likely be very happy to get this kind of future capital in exchange for a flier they snagged on a minor-league deal.

    Acquire LHP Rich Hill from Red Sox for 1B Miguel Sano

    Okay, I'm trying to think creatively with this shot in the dark. The Twins are clearly ready to move on from Sano, so I tried to figure out a scenario where trading him might be remotely plausible. I can't see anyone giving up a prospect for him, but this feels like kind of a "why not" move for both sides.

    The slumping Red Sox – now in last place! – are longshots to make the playoffs. They need a huge spark to go on a run and overcome the many other wild-card contenders in the American League. They're not going to get that from Hill, a back-of-rotation starter who's currently rehabbing from a knee injury and expected to return in early August. But let's say Sano hits a couple homers over the next week and inspires some small belief that he could come in and bang the ball over the Green Monster for a couple months. The Twins pay off half of Sano's remaining ~$5M commitment so the money is basically a wash.

    Hill is not an ace that's going to turn around the staff's fortunes or anything, but he could be useful for the Twins down the stretch and into the playoffs. He's pitched reasonably well this year (102 ERA+, 1.29 WHIP in 70.2 IP) and has familiarity here from the 2020 season. The 42-year-old would probably appreciate the opportunity to go to a more legitimate contender for what might be his last chance for a championship run.

    Acquire C Kurt Suzuki, Tucker Barnhart, Austin Hedges, or otherwise for PTBNL

    The Twins need a dependable veteran catcher to bridge the gap until Ryan Jeffers returns. The above are examples of of no-hit, glove-first guys who are impending free agents on teams going nowhere. They'll be available for nothing of consequence, so I don't even feel the need to hypothesize a return, but it's definitely something they need to get done.

    The End Result

    By carrying out the plan above, the Twins would address three key needs -- the rotation, the bullpen, and backup catcher -- without giving up any truly indispensable prospects, although they would be parting with a quantity of good young talent.

    Syndergaard joins Gray and Ryan atop the rotation to form a viable postseason core. Hill could become part of that picture if he throws well, otherwise simply provides some innings down the stretch. Bard and Moore power up the bullpen significantly, pushing Griffin Jax and Caleb Thielbar into seventh-inning roles, and the rest of the questionables (Tyler Duffey, Emilio Pagan, Joe Smith, etc.) into lower-leverage middle relief or possibly even DFAs.

    You can quibble with the specifics, but the overarching thought is that the Twins avoid giving up critical assets by aiming lower than the top names on the market (but not much lower) and not targeting additional years of team control. For me, that's the perfect deadline approach. 

    What are your thoughts on this plan? Are the prices I've laid out too light? Too steep? What would you do? Sound off in the comments!

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    Good ideas that don't seem too painful. Angels I agree may be a partner. What a messed up organization they are. Of all the prospects discussed to be potentially moved, I disagree on trading Miranda for anyone. He is our future Jose Ramirez. I am more inclined to move anyone else to make sure this kid plays everyday. He is Arraez with POWER. 

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    Interesting enough to look into deeper. 

    I think you're probably going to need to give up quite a bit more to get Syndergaard. Think something like Julien or Celestino, in addition to what you proposed.

    Bard for Povich sounds about right. Could see something like that happening (though Povich has not looked as great lately as he had been).

    I think you're being way too generous for Moore. Julien, alone, is probably too much for Moore, imo.

    I applaud trying to get anything out of Sano, but that's going to be tough to do. Sano's value is so far below "zero" that they're stuck with him until they're ready to simply DFA him. I suspect they'll see if he can do something... anything... to resurrect his value.

    And, yeah, one of those catchers for a PTBNL makes a lot of sense. 

    I think the Twins should be aiming higher than you're inclined to believe, but if you're looking at Syndergaard/Hill types, I'd be more intrigued by a lefty like Blake Snell. Bad start, but trending a little better the past month.

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    I respect your opinion, Nick but I'm in the other boat. We have the opportunity of having Correa for this season we have to go for it all. We have a great core (with the best CF & SS) we just need to fill our holes, ATL was in a worse position than us last season and won it all. You just have to have some faith. Bard would be a good cheap choice and  Mahle would not be that expensive. We also need an upgrade at catcher not only for this year but for the future, We have redundant players  that could be traded that wouldn't  effect our future that much if any. And would relieve the coming 40 man crunch.

    The catchers that you mentioned don't really move the needle for me. I wouldn't want another SD reject. I'm not too certain about Marcus Stroman but if you want a cheap option a Contreras/ Robertson/ Stroman trade the Cubs could probably go for and they might even go with Sano. Or go with just Contreras/ Robertson, there we take care of  our main need (complimentary closer) and an upgrade at catcher (we could try to extend him)

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    1 hour ago, Kevinm said:

    I think if the twins trade Sano, the same thing would happen as with David Ortiz years ago.  Reaching his full potential with another team

    So batting .210 with 25 HRs, 45 RBI's and 170 K's... trade away my provisional friend, trade away.... tongue and cheek sarcasm

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    2 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

    Winder has been shut down.....sent back for rehab work.  No one is going to trade for him right now.

    You can't give up Miranda....he's been our most productive hitter/run producer over the last month.  He's a cornerstone. I don't know if Larnach holds value while injured (hernia surgery shouldn't be a huge red flag).  

    If Arraez can play a serviceable 2B, why isn't Polanco a trade chip?  Will it screw with team chemistry too much?  

     

     

    I think it's safe to call Winder's career as a starter to be likely over right now.

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    32 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

    I don't share the optimism that winder, alcala, or Maeda or paddock will be healthy next year.... But I guess it's possible. 

    As for the OP, I don't get the Syndergard desire at all. I'm good with the rest.

    Syndergaard isn't high on my list, but making sure Bundy and Smeltzer don't start another game is. To do that, the Twins will need two starters, presumably the second one won't be terribly exciting.

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    2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

    So the same team minus Correa and a few other vets and the hope (fingers crossed) the Twins go out and do something they have never done before and are going to do it Twice (Sign a high end starting pitcher)?

    Free Agents next year, Price, Sale, Rodon, Syndergaard, Morton, Wainwright, Eovaldi, Kersahw, Greinke, Nola, Severino, Manaea, Gibson, Bassitt and Musgrove are the top guys available.

    I can assume we can count out Price, Morton, Wainwright, Greinke, Gibson and Kershaw from the list.

    That leaves Sale, Rodon, Syndergaard, Eovaldi, Nola, Severino, Manaea, Bassitt and Musgrove.

    Sale and Bassitt are both over 33, so probably can assume if they were to be brought in, it would be for a 1 or 2 contract, maybe 3, but do we really see the Twins pay 20 million a year for these two.

    Are Syndergaard, Eovaldi and Manaea top end pitchers?

    Down to Rodon, Nola, Severino and Musgrove. (and the Twins are going to outbid everybody for not just 1 of those guys but 2 of them?, sorry I don't see that happening)

    Then they are going to go out and get a bat for the bench because there is no room for a starter and two expensive relief pitchers. Man I wish I could live in a world where I would believe those things could happen.

    In my world they try to get Correa back (or sign Swanson to a deal similiar to what they did with Correa if he doesn't have the interest he wants), maybe get Wilson Contreras, bring in a relief pitcher like a Joe Smith and sign a starting pitcher like Jose Quintana or something like that.

    Also the team you envision is no more a contender then the team they have this year is.

     

     

    You have an opinion.  I have an opinion.  I like mine.  You like yours.  That does not mean either of us are wrong.  We just have different opinions.  That's why I refrain from saying things like "the team you envision is no more a contender then the team they have this year is".  That sounds like a statement of fact when in reality it is just someone's opinion.

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    Twins/Red Sox: Twins get SP Nathan Eovaldi and UT Kike Hernandez for RF Max Kepler, 1B Miguel Sano, RHP Blayne Enlow #17p. Twins get 2 guys that have been very dominant in the postseason and off Miguel Sano, Red Sox get pieces that will benefit them sooner than later. Wallner looks about major-league ready and can put faith into him starting next year. 

    Twins/Reds: Twins get OF Tyler Naquin for SP Chris Archer, OF Jake Cave, and RHP Sean Mooney #30p. Twins get a decent RF in the absence of Kepler and shave off Chris Archer. 

    Twins/Marlins: Twins get RP Anthony Bass and C Jacob Stallings for 1B Aaron Sabato #13p, RHP Cole Sands #14p and C Caleb Hamilton. Twins get a strong high-end reliever and a quality backup catcher for prospects of mediocre interest.

    Twins/Diamondbacks: Twins get SP Merrill Kelly for OF Misael Urbina #9p and RHP Casey Legumina #25p. Kelly honestly sounds like a twins starter and would strengthen the rotation in comparison to Archer. Urbina has upside but is struggling.

    Twins/Rockies: Twins get RP Daniel Bard for SS Keoni Cavaco #19p and RP Joe Smith. I honestly don’t know what the Rockies want and hope this would be enough.

    Total Off-season:

    SP Nathan Eovaldi, SP Merrill Kelly, RP Anthony Bass, RP Daniel Bard, OF Tyler Naquin, U Kike Hernandez, C Jacob Stallings

    For:

    RF Max Kepler, 1B Miguel Sano, SP Chris Archer, RP Joe Smith, C Caleb Hamilton, OF Jake Cave, Misael Urbina #9p, Aaron Sabato #13p, Cole Sands #14p, Blayne Enlow #17p, Keoni Cavaco #19p, Casey Legumina #25p, Sean Mooney #30p.
     

    Outcome: Twins still retain all highly-touted players and look good enough for the postseason.

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    32 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

    Syndergaard isn't high on my list, but making sure Bundy and Smeltzer don't start another game is. To do that, the Twins will need two starters, presumably the second one won't be terribly exciting.

    I'd say getting Archer out of the rotation is a higher priority than Bundy.

    And I'd take Smeltzer over Archer too.

    Since this is the "ideal" thread I'd say ideally none of those three ever make another start, but if we're prioritizing, start with Archer.

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    13 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

    I would say the Twins should throw in the kitchen sink to get Ohtani to sign for 3-5 years. Yes, that would be a bit painful, but that duel threat is something one could only dream about. What would it take? A lot! And the payout would be quite large, but it would be worth it IMHO. I also think Ohtani-san would be more than willing to come to the Twins with Maeda already in the fold. Having another Japanese player to talk with is a hidden advantage.

    Here is my proposal: Kepler, either Larnach or Kiriloff, and two pitchers from the minors with high upside. Would this move the Angels? Four for one player? Is it enough? (I'm sure some teams would be willing to go down this road.) 

    What do you think?

     

    Ad three top 100 prospects and LAA might not hang up on you.

    After that:

    1) Does Ohtani have a no trade clause?

    2) Why would he promise to sign a new contract after the trade?

    3) Why would he only sign for 3-5 years when he'd get more on the open market.

    4) Let's not assume that all Japanese players want to play with each other. I understand the cultural issues, but it's inaccurate to assume that people will be bffs (or even friends) because they are from the same country.

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    They kind of have to go for it with only having Correa for one year, but apart from that I feel like this team has a few too many needs to address in one deadline. I like the core and think we have the building blocks for a good team. But I really think you need an impact starter, another starter plus 2 impact relievers. So short of adding one of Castillo/Montas/Mahle + Noah-ish kind of SP + Jorge Lopez and Daniel Bard I just don't it's enough. And if you get all 4 are you losing 5 of our top 20 prospects or more? I'm not opposed to it but it would be a pretty big diversion from the Twins Way so I am fully expecting to get Lou Trivino and whoever is the spiritual ancestor to Ricky Nolasco. 

     

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    1 hour ago, MTV said:

    Twins/Red Sox: Twins get SP Nathan Eovaldi and UT Kike Hernandez for RF Max Kepler, 1B Miguel Sano, RHP Blayne Enlow #17p. Twins get 2 guys that have been very dominant in the postseason and off Miguel Sano, Red Sox get pieces that will benefit them sooner than later. Wallner looks about major-league ready and can put faith into him starting next year. 

    Twins/Reds: Twins get OF Tyler Naquin for SP Chris Archer, OF Jake Cave, and RHP Sean Mooney #30p. Twins get a decent RF in the absence of Kepler and shave off Chris Archer. 

    Twins/Marlins: Twins get RP Anthony Bass and C Jacob Stallings for 1B Aaron Sabato #13p, RHP Cole Sands #14p and C Caleb Hamilton. Twins get a strong high-end reliever and a quality backup catcher for prospects of mediocre interest.

    Twins/Diamondbacks: Twins get SP Merrill Kelly for OF Misael Urbina #9p and RHP Casey Legumina #25p. Kelly honestly sounds like a twins starter and would strengthen the rotation in comparison to Archer. Urbina has upside but is struggling.

    Twins/Rockies: Twins get RP Daniel Bard for SS Keoni Cavaco #19p and RP Joe Smith. I honestly don’t know what the Rockies want and hope this would be enough.

    Total Off-season:

    SP Nathan Eovaldi, SP Merrill Kelly, RP Anthony Bass, RP Daniel Bard, OF Tyler Naquin, U Kike Hernandez, C Jacob Stallings

    For:

    RF Max Kepler, 1B Miguel Sano, SP Chris Archer, RP Joe Smith, C Caleb Hamilton, OF Jake Cave, Misael Urbina #9p, Aaron Sabato #13p, Cole Sands #14p, Blayne Enlow #17p, Keoni Cavaco #19p, Casey Legumina #25p, Sean Mooney #30p.
     

    Outcome: Twins still retain all highly-touted players and look good enough for the postseason.

    If the Twins could pull this off it would be the miracle of all miracles and I would be all for it. They basically would 2 starters, 2 relief pitchers , a outfielder, a catcher and a utility guy for Kepler, Urbina and clear out a bunch of minor leagues players that most likely won't amount to a whole lot.

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    1 hour ago, terrydactyls said:

    You have an opinion.  I have an opinion.  I like mine.  You like yours.  That does not mean either of us are wrong.  We just have different opinions.  That's why I refrain from saying things like "the team you envision is no more a contender then the team they have this year is".  That sounds like a statement of fact when in reality it is just someone's opinion.

    You are correct everybody has an option. I basically was going off the 63 million you said they would have to spend.

    Do you know the amount they spent this past offseason?

    Correa 35.1, Gray 10.7, Bundy 4, Archer 2.75 and Smith, which is a total of 55.05 and then they subtracted a bit from the Donaldson and Rogers trades, the difference between the money to spend next year which is only 8 less than your projected 63 and they didn't sign one top rotation guy, Plus they have to replace Sanchez, Urshela and Sano so unless those guys are replaced by prospects that will bring down your 63 to less or about the same as last year.  IMO the Twins have a philosophy on starting pitchers and that is pretty consistently allowing their starters to pitch to 21 or 22 guys, you don't and can not pay the price of a top end starter and limit him to this and I don't see them changing that philosophy for one or two guys when they haven't done that for Gray or Ryan.

    IMO this front office will pay higher salaries for the offensive guys and let the pipeline, trades and Bundy's of the world fill out a rotation.

    Now I hope I am wrong and they go out and sign a stud starter and they let him pitch to the best of his abilities and not stick to their starting pitching philosophy, but I have little hope and faith that they do.

     

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    7 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

    Hope that injured Pitchers come back as good or better than they were,

    Hope pitchers that have been hurt in the past don't continue to get hurt.

    Hope the Twins sign a top starting pitcher and change their starting pitching philosophy for said guy.

    Hope the Twins sign a really good bullpen guy.

    Hope that that is no regress from Miranda.

    Hope a 26 year old minor league SS (not even currently on the 40 man) gets us to the SS of the future in Lewis and hope Lewis is what he showed this year in 41 plate appearances.

    Hope they sign a catcher and Jeffers come back and is better than he was this year.

    Hope Buxton is at least  as healthy as he is this year and that Arraez is in the top 5 in batting average and on base percentage.

    Hope that Jax and Moran do what they have done so far this year.

    Hope that two rookies in Sisk and Schulfer are viable bullpen arms.

    Hope that the following players are at their best Larnach (Pre-June), AK (Post April but with some power), Celestino (pre-July) and Gordon (pre-July) and are healthy.

    And hope both Cleveland and Chicago play like they did in 22 or at least close to as bad as they played.

    First I would like to say I hope everyone of those things happen, But lets be honest that is a lot of things that need to fall into place (Now I understand they don't need all that to happen to compete for a division title next year, but if most of it doesn't happen we could be sitting in the same spot next year claiming that 24 is the real year to compete)

     

     

    We could paint any scenario we could possibly come up with in the same negative light.  We could have traded for Clevinger and hoped he would not go down with an injury like he did or many other established players who were traded and injured.  We could have signed Patrick Corbin and hoped he did not turn into a bad pitcher like he has.  We could have signed Anthony Rendon instead of Donaldson and hoped he did not turn into a pumpkin and on and on.

    The same negative crap was said about trading Donaldson.  Several people absolutely insisted we got worse.  Well, since Miranda got it together in late May his OPS is 300 points higher than Donaldson.  Now we have a better player going forward and an extra $20M to spend on pitching.  

    What they need is reasonable health and players to perform to the capabilities.  No kidding players will have to play well for the Twins to be good.  What a concept!   Guess what ... That scenario is true no matter what strategy the team pursues so all of this is nothing more than finding a way to be negative.   

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    33 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

    If the Twins could pull this off it would be the miracle of all miracles and I would be all for it. They basically would 2 starters, 2 relief pitchers , a outfielder, a catcher and a utility guy for Kepler, Urbina and clear out a bunch of minor leagues players that most likely won't amount to a whole lot.

    If the team is so bad as to require this many additions they should be a seller.  Can you name one instance where a team ever added nearly this much at the deadline.  That should be a good indication if it's a good idea.

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    30 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

    We could paint any scenario we could possibly come up with in the same negative light.  We could have traded for Clevinger and hoped he would not go down with an injury like he did or many other established players who were traded and injured.  We could have signed Patrick Corbin and hoped he did not turn into a bad pitcher like he has.  We could have signed Anthony Rendon instead of Donaldson and hoped he did not turn into a pumpkin and on and on.

    The same negative crap was said about trading Donaldson.  Several people absolutely insisted we got worse.  Well, since Miranda got it together in late May his OPS is 300 points higher than Donaldson.  Now we have a better player going forward and an extra $20M to spend on pitching.  

    What they need is reasonable health and players to perform to the capabilities.  No kidding players will have to play well for the Twins to be good.  What a concept!   Guess what ... That scenario is true no matter what strategy the team pursues so all of this is nothing more than finding a way to be negative.   

    This started out with you answer Mike Sixel's following question - "How will next year be better? They likely have no SS.... And need to replace Bundy and Archer. They won't have a built in lead in the division. I'm genuinely curious why anyone thinks next year is likely to be better. ? '

    And you laid out a scenario (which by the way I hope happens which I mentioned) where a lot things have to go right and you didn't answer the question on the built in lead. I pointed out all the things that have to go right including Cleveland and Chicago being as mediocre as they are this year and the Twins FO have to sign a top tier starting pitcher (which they haven't ever done).

    And your response is we could paint any scenario in a negative light, then use a multiple examples of things to the best of my knowledge didn't happen like signing Corbin, Clevinger and Rendon. Then also use some crazy example of what others thought of the Donaldson trade and how the Twins are going to spend $20 on pitching, which may or may not happen.

    So yes if all or maybe all of these things happen the Twins might be in a better position next year, but as I was pointing out that is truly based on faith and hope only. I will say some of things you said are very, very likely to happen, but what I know is as of July 28th 2002 the Twins are in first place, and I can't say with any certainty that July 28 2023 they will be.

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    15 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

    If the team is so bad as to require this many additions they should be a seller.  Can you name one instance where a team ever added nearly this much at the deadline.  That should be a good indication if it's a good idea.

    I think you missed my point/sarcasm on that one, There is little to no chance any of the teams would make one of those trades, (Maybe Boston would make the trade, maybe) But the rest of the trades are the Twins trading garbage or less than other teams would offer for those guys, so yes if you can basically steal other team's players for your garbage you make those trades.

    For example it doesn't matter if the Twins are in first or last if you can get a major league player for Cave, Archer and #30 prospect, make the trade, or if you can trade failed (at this time could he be valued any lower?) first round pick and Smith for Bard, they could trade him next week for way more than they paid do it in a heart beat. If the Marlins are willing to do that trade again you have to do it. If the Diamondbacks are going to give you a pitcher you have control over though 25 for those two prospect, again you do that.

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    Like the Sano for Hill angle, that is really creative and makes sense. Whether Bos would do it? But certainly worth a shot.

    Reality is to take on another 7M salary as in Thor's more than likely means having to lose salary elsewhere, and Sano's is the only one Twins could realistically move, unless we want to open up the trade Correa thread again, but something tells me we have all pretty much beat the horse dead.

    As others have intimidated here, I would rather roll into Aug/Sep with Smeltzer taking on LH pen duties, low-leverage to start and see how it goes. This seems preferable to trading more prospects for someone like Moore, who has found the magic elixer this season but who knows when the clock strikes midnight for him. I just think its actually less volatility with Smeltzer in that role. And, to be honest, a big part of the BP problem trickles down from what is shaping up as possibly the worst trade of the Falvine era. I would rather try to patch that self-inflicted wound with internal options instead of possibly losing even more in that trade by moving additional prospects.

    Love also the catchers named by Nick. Makes perfect sense, and any of those should be eminently gettable.

    Overall, this is a solid plan, I only question taking on the additional salary without related salary dump, for as we all know, this is still Twins territory.

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    2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

    I'd say getting Archer out of the rotation is a higher priority than Bundy.

    And I'd take Smeltzer over Archer too.

    Since this is the "ideal" thread I'd say ideally none of those three ever make another start, but if we're prioritizing, start with Archer.

    I want Archer removed too, but I just can't watch Bundy any more. He's just lobbing meatballs at the plate and has no business facing major league hitters. Archer and his short starts are killing this team, but if they had four decent starters ahead of him, then I think the bullpen would be fine picking up his slack.

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    Go big or go home, Nick.  Right now the Twins have 2 reliable starters and same number of relievers.  The FO should be tarred and feathered for this state of affairs.  Just unbelievable they have not acquired one decent reliever after last year's s....storm.  Getting Gray was a plus but if they really were serious about contention this year, Bundy/Archer??  Really.

    But Nick is proposing they go for it with 5 trades within the week.  Let's step back and see what they really need to hold on to the division and yes, even win a playoff series.  First and foremost, they need 2 legit starters.  Begin with a #1.(neither Ryan or Gray can be depended on to shut down a playoff team in a Game 1.  Montas, Castillo, Rodon or Lopez would do, followed by a pickup of Blake Snell, now a clear choice over Thor.  Two top arms for the pen are just as important.  Guys like Robertson or Bard would be a nice start but there are a number of other relievers out there who would slide right in back of Duran.  Finally, a veteran backup catcher would be nice but not the priority of the other 2 groups.

    The Twins have excess offense players, like Sano, Steer, Waller, Gordon, and loads of hi and lo-minor pitchers to offer.  Do I think this FO is capable of shooting for the moon here?  No, but it is possible given our excess OF and IF depth at the minor and major league levels.  Hell, what was the sense of signing Correa if you don't follow through with trades for a first place team.  But no nibblin' this time!  Go big or.....

     

     

     

     

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    I like your plan Nick and want Syndergaard pretty badly too. The two relievers would totally revolutionize the bullpen.

    One thing I would do further is informed by watching the Twins win the 1987 World Series with basically 3 pitchers. 

    To that end, I’d also go after Pablo Lopez of the Marlins. If we have to give up Steer or Wallner, that’s the price of getting in the World Series hunt. 

    We’d still get to keep one of Wallner and Steer and have the monstrous talent, Jose Miranda and Alex Kirilloff and even Trevor Larnach.

    I’m pretty sure that Lopez, Gray and Ryan would be better than what the Twins ran out in 1987. And the opportunity is now for another reason. The Twins have arguably their best defensive team in Twins history with Urshela, Correa, Polanco, Buxton and Kepler. Heck, Gordon is even at his best in LF.

    You laid a solid groundwork. If Falvey and Levine will make the sacrifice for Lopez, the Twins could be WS contenders with the other moves you’ve laid out. In this scenario getting Thor moves 2 of 3 of Smeltzer, Archer, Bundy out of the rotation. They can’t win with 2 or 3 of those 3 in the rotation. If they could get Rich Hill, Thor could be 4th starter and regular season breaking ball rich Hill would be #5.

    And Correa plays his best in the postseason.

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    41 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

    You're kind of double counting there.....

    No. I understand that these are only two trades but it takes four teams to pull it together and all four of these teams have been willing to pull the trigger. The twins I hope are in a position push for something that makes a difference. I read that we're more interested in mahle than Castillo and it bothers me. If we are serious and want to make the most of having Correa then we go for the best, not second best. I am hoping for the front office to do something that will really excite all of us. And it will take two teams not one to make it happen

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    6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

    I don't share the optimism that winder, alcala, or Maeda or paddock will be healthy next year.... But I guess it's possible. 

    As for the OP, I don't get the Syndergard desire at all. I'm good with the rest.

    Or effective. 

    This is the 3rd time in less than a year Winder has been shut down with a shoulder issue. It seems unlikely to resolve itself without intervention. Maeda is going to be 35 next season post TJ, and he wasn't exactly lighting it up before getting injured in August. Paddack was a reclamation project of sorts prior to TJ. We're holding onto 20ish innings to close last season as the "real," Alcala vs. his erratic 40ish innings to start the year.

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    12 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    It starts with them getting some injured pitchers back.  They are missing Ober / Paddack / Alcala / Maeda and Dobnak.  Hard to say what Dobnal provides but it's worth mentioning.  Get Winder back as a permanent addition and replace Archer / Bundy with a top of the rotation free agent and add a back of the BP free agent and you have a very different pitching staff.  Of course, the response will be that the Twins won't spend on pitching.  I would suggest they have not spent big on pitching but they have never been in the position they will be next season.  They will only have roughly a $73M payroll and they will already have Gray / Ryan / Wider / Ober / Maeda, eventually Paddack plus Smeltzer / Dobnak for depth.  

    The only hole to fill among position players is catcher and who knows maybe Hamilton impresses the remainder of the season.  It's not like Palacios is horrible and Lewis should be inserted by mid-season.  Miranda and Kirilloff are night and day better than they were to start this season so their emergence makes us better next year.   Those two also collectively save us $30M which could be invested in pitching.  They could also afford Willson Contreras.

    Yes, they need to execute on landing a free agent SP and RP but that's all they need to do to make this a darn good team next year.  So, we will see if they are just dead set against spending on pitching.  Keep in mind, I am the guy who was against such a move in previous years.  I have a totally different opinion now because of the situation I just outlined.  There is a reasonable chance the FO will also be much more open to spending on a top free agent SP.

    How does Musgrove / Gray / Ryan / Maeda / Winder sound for a rotation with Ober / Paddack / Smeltzer / Dobnak for depth?  An infield of Kirilloff / Polanco eventually Lewis and Miranda.  BP of Duran a LH free agent / Alcala / Jax and three among Thielbar / Megill / Hamilton / Moran / Sisk / Schulfer / etc.  We could also use Two of Ober / Paddack / Smeltzer / Dobnak could be used as multi-inning RPs.  This all fits within a roughly $130M budget.  This looks like a better team than we have at the moment to me.

    So count on Ober to suddenly shake the injuries and give you 150 innings? Paddack is available for half the year at best, Maeda turns 35, and we're banking on both immediately post TJ? Which version of Alcala are they getting? Winder was just shut down again with a shoulder issue that has persisted for a year now. Sure, we can call Dobnak and Smeltzer depth, but the reality is they're AAAA guys, at least as starters. Ideally the depth would come from the much hyped pipeline, but ahhh yeah, we've seen how that has looked to this point. Essentially you have them shuffling the deck chairs + the FO committing big money/years to a front line SP. It just feels like asking for disappointment on both fronts. 

    "Not horrible," shouldn't be the bar to clear for a starting SS on a team that's looking to compete. The Twins need to sign an actual SS, at least for the year. The plan can't be to hold water and hope Lewis can take over midseason after recovering from his 2nd torn ACL. 

    The off chance that 6+ players hit their absolute best case scenario next year doesn't seem like a viable reason to stand pat and not improve an obviously flawed, but division leading team this year. 

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