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  • Twins Must Get Creative To Lure Darvish


    Nick Nelson

    If you're having a hard time wrapping your head around this, I can't blame you. But there is mounting evidence that the Minnesota Twins are indeed very serious about trying to sign Yu Darvish.

    Yes, the Twins – notoriously risk-averse in free agency – are making a run at the top name on the market. In their first full offseason at the helm, Derek Falvey and Thad Levine seemingly have the go-ahead to make an historical splash.

    But landing Darvish will take more than that.

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    In the Offseason Handbook, we projected that Darvish would get a five-year contract worth $135 million. MLB Trade Rumors predicted six years, $160 million. So it seems there's agreement that $27 million annually sounds about right, and given the competitive market for his services, the right-hander shouldn't have trouble getting someone to offer it.

    Who knows, perhaps the Twins will outbid a number of large-market clubs and dangle the most money flat-out. I think we can all agree that's not very likely. This is a guy that pretty much every heavyweight contender would love to add. Even if Levine gets the sign-off on an offer in the $150 range (clearly a monumental IF) he could still easily be surpassed by another team that needn't concern itself with adding another 10 or 20 million to sweeten the pot.

    So if we operate under the assumption that Minnesota won't be able to match other suitors in terms of pure dollars, how might they get creative and entice him to sign here for less money?

    Sure, the Twins have some factors working in their favor. The bond between Darvish and Levine appears to be real. Any outside pitcher has to like the idea of throwing in front of Byron Buxton. And I've heard that the 31-year-old hurler doesn't necessarily gravitate toward playing in a big city.

    But, with prized free agents, sentimentality rarely wins out. The Twins need to figure out some tangible methods for overcoming heftier bankrolls and persuading Darvish.

    I see a few different avenues they could try:

    Opt-Out Clause

    These are becoming more and more common in contracts for top free agents. A lot of general managers don't like them because they're extremely one-sided, and offering one now would be a first for the Twins, but I think it'd almost be an obligatory component of any contract for Darvish that doesn't approach $30M/year.

    I'm sure Minnesota won't be the only team willing to include an opt-out clause, but maybe they're willing to let him trigger it earlier? Such a scenario would mitigate Darvish's risk in taking a smaller deal, because if he significantly out-pitches his pay he can hit the market again in two or three years, still shy of 35.

    It's not ideal for the Twins because they could easily lose Darvish right in the middle of a theoretical prime window of contention. But if that's what it takes to get him, you do it without a second thought.

    Deferred Money

    Here's an outside-the-box idea. Many baseball fans will immediately envision a Bobby Bonilla scenario where the Twins are paying Darvish a few million bucks in 2065, but Bonilla's infamous deal with the Mets is not the only example of this framework in action.

    In January of 2016, when the Baltimore Orioles signed slugger Chris Davis to a seven-year, $164 million contract, they deferred $42 million of it. He receives $3.5 million every year from 2023-32, and then $1.4 million annually through 2036.

    This reduced Baltimore's actual commitment on the ledgers to $119 million over the seven years, or $17 million AAV. The deferral is interest-free, which works in the club's favor, but Davis can look forward to steady income well into his retirement.

    That kind of distribution would make Darvish more palatable for the organization's bottom line. And while a perpetual $3-5 million payroll penalty for a decade-plus would hurt, the Twins are more than accustomed to carrying dead salary weight. That's a relative drop in the bucket. For a franchise-altering acquisition like this, it's worth considering.

    Personalized Experience

    We're veering back toward intangibles here to some extent, but not entirely. The most pervasive trend in business today is offering personalization. If you can tailor your solution to the specific needs and wants of the customer, you greatly increase your chances of closing a sale.

    To stick with that transactional metaphor, if the Twins are marketing themselves to Darvish, they may not be able to offer the best price, but could woo him with the most customized experience.

    Consider this: Chris Gimenez, who was Darvish's personal catcher in Texas, has been actively recruiting the righty to Minnesota despite his status as a free agent. Minnesota could easily bring Gimenez back if it'd be a draw. The Twins also recently signed Masa Abe, a Japan native who served as a trainer on the country's 2017 WBC team, as an assistant on the staff.

    With Gimenez indicating that Darvish was "not necessarily a fan" of some of the team rules during his time with the Rangers, Minnesota looks to have an experiential advantage over at least one other known suitor. And in fact, given the intel they have on Darvish's unique preferences, Levine and Co. have the ability to really appeal to the free agent on a deeper level.

    Money talks. But in the case of Darvish, it might not be alone at the podium. The Twins will probably have to hope that's true if they wish to defy the odds and win the ace they need.

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    If the Twins miss Darvish and it comes down to the fact they wouldn't go 6 years, count me disappointed.  The window for success is now and we need someone like him or our rotation is going to be struggly yet again.  Come on guys, break the mold!  It's not like you'd be paying him through age 40.

    Edited by FunnyPenguin
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    If the Twins miss Darvish and it comes down to the fact they wouldn't go 6 years, count me disappointed.  The window for success is now and we need someone like him or our rotation is going to be struggly yet again.  Come on guys, break the mold!  It's not like you'd be paying him through age 40.

    Maybe this is the creative part ... but I wonder what combination will get it done for him ... less years, but more guaranteed money? More years but less guaranteed money? Or will someone go both more years and more guaranteed money?

     

    As I've said, I don't see the Twins winning this if others are seriously in on it. And I don't know what other 'intangibles' will have an effect, if they even could, but I'd think the intangibles would only come into play if two teams have similar offers of guaranteed years and money.

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    Minnesota was in on Drew Smyly until the end, per Wolfson, before Smyly chose to sign with the Cubs. Minnesota gave an identical two-year, $10MM guarantee to Michael Pineda instead.

     

    BIZARRE.  

    Not really it's a calculated risk assessment move to get ahead of the starting pitching situation and to save $$ the next season.  Even though Smyly and Pineda likely won't pitch in 2018, IF they are healthy in 2019, having them pitch at 8M or even 10M is a bargain given their prior abilities and track record given what FA SP are getting on the open market.

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    Here is how I would devise a way to get Darvish and it is somewhat outside the box.  

     

    1) I would go to Mauer and ask him honestly how badly he wants to win a world series with the Twins.  I renegotiate his deal. 

     

    In 2018 Mauer defers half his contract, making it $11.5M for 2018.  However, the Twins will then offer an additional 2 year $16M deal for 2019-2020.  Beginning in 2021-2016 the Twins will pay back Joe his remaining $11.5M so for 6 years he gets $1.92M but the Twins will pay 9% interest on the $11.5 for each year.  Making his annual payback $2.84M through 2026.  That's about $5.5M more than if he just takes $23M in 2018.

     

    Mauer's New Deal:

     

    2018: $11.5M

    2019: $8M

    2020: $8M

    2021: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2022: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2023: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2024: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2025: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2026: $2.84M Deferred Payment

     

    2) Now I would use that freed up $11.5M and front end load the Darvish deal.  Here is how I would structure it:

     

    6 Years $156M overall contract

     

    Year 1:  $36M

    Year 2:  $27M

    Year 3:  $27M

    Year 4:  $22M Opt Out Option after 2021

    Year 5:  $22M

    Year 6:  $22M

     

    In this Scenario the Twins are basically paying Darvish $27M + $9M of Mauer's freed up money in year 1 (2018).  Then in years 2-3 he is back to making most likely "market" value of $27M.  Year 4-6 his contract value declines but he has already made that up in year one.  

     

    However, if he outperforms a $22M/year pitcher in 2021 he has the option to opt out after the season.  Darvish would be 35 then and this could be 50/50 move at this point.  

     

    I really think if Mauer would be on board with this deal, it would make signing Darvish a reality. Who doesn't turn down $156M guaranteed over 6 years with nearly 25% of it paid in year 1?   The only way that is beat is if someone else comes out with 5 years / $175M or something outrageous.

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    Here is how I would devise a way to get Darvish and it is somewhat outside the box.

     

    1) I would go to Mauer and ask him honestly how badly he wants to win a world series with the Twins. I renegotiate his deal.

     

    In 2018 Mauer defers half his contract, making it $11.5M for 2018. However, the Twins will then offer an additional 2 year $16M deal for 2019-2020. Beginning in 2021-2016 the Twins will pay back Joe his remaining $11.5M so for 6 years he gets $1.92M but the Twins will pay 9% interest on the $11.5 for each year. Making his annual payback $2.84M through 2026. That's about $5.5M more than if he just takes $23M in 2018.

     

    Mauer's New Deal:

     

    2018: $11.5M

    2019: $8M

    2020: $8M

    2021: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2022: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2023: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2024: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2025: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2026: $2.84M Deferred Payment

     

    2) Now I would use that freed up $11.5M and front end load the Darvish deal. Here is how I would structure it:

     

    6 Years $156M overall contract

     

    Year 1: $36M

    Year 2: $27M

    Year 3: $27M

    Year 4: $22M Opt Out Option after 2021

    Year 5: $22M

    Year 6: $22M

     

    In this Scenario the Twins are basically paying Darvish $27M + $9M of Mauer's freed up money in year 1 (2018). Then in years 2-3 he is back to making most likely "market" value of $27M. Year 4-6 his contract value declines but he has already made that up in year one.

     

    However, if he outperforms a $22M/year pitcher in 2021 he has the option to opt out after the season. Darvish would be 35 then and this could be 50/50 move at this point.

     

    I really think if Mauer would be on board with this deal, it would make signing Darvish a reality. Who doesn't turn down $156M guaranteed over 6 years with nearly 25% of it paid in year 1? The only way that is beat is if someone else comes out with 5 years / $175M or something outrageous.

    Of course Mauer would probably do that. But, why would the Pohlad's, who I believe made their money in banking, pay 9% interest?

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    The definition of balk is: to hesitate or be unwilling to accept an idea or undertaking.

     

    And in your initial post you said this:

     

    That is NOT what the article said, at all, so no, you did NOT say 'exactly' what the article said. There have been no offers or statements of demands or any such thing. Yes, the Twins have a history of not wanting to go long on contracts, and yes, they likely have said they aren't 'in love' with that idea (which is what the link you posted said). And yes, it's (I think) very probably Darvish wants 6 years, that's no secret. But it's not like anyone has put anything out there in writing or verbally as to any specifics as your 'Darvish said this and the Twins don't want to' as if it was a specific thing said and responded to, not as rumor and speculation, which is what it is. And, which I think will be the case. I'll repeat it ... I don't think he'll be coming here, something I've said all along, or at least have said 'I'm very skeptical.' And that feeling is from the Twins history of long contracts and money.

     

    And with all due respect, tone down the all caps. I disagree with your take. And you disagree with me. Fine, but there's no reason to get so high strung about it all. ;)

     

    Again what are you talking about and who are you talking too?  What do you mean that is not what the article said? 

     

    Are you sure your not thinking about message #72 in this thread because that user was using the phrases balk and balking and discussing some of the things your saying in more detail. 

     

    What i said was quick and to the point and I paraphrased what Steve said.  I never claimed to have quoted him but i guess i have to now.

     

    MLBtraderumors

    Steve Adam's

    Article "Twins Interested In Trevor Rosenthal"

     

    "Minnesota has shown no inclination to spent upwards of $9MM on multi-year deals for relievers and doesn’t love the idea of going to six years on Yu Darvish"

     

    Also balk DOES HAVE an illegality meaning in baseball terms as in pitcher balk.

     

     

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    Here is how I would devise a way to get Darvish and it is somewhat outside the box.

     

    1) I would go to Mauer and ask him honestly how badly he wants to win a world series with the Twins. I renegotiate his deal.

     

    In 2018 Mauer defers half his contract, making it $11.5M for 2018. However, the Twins will then offer an additional 2 year $16M deal for 2019-2020. Beginning in 2021-2016 the Twins will pay back Joe his remaining $11.5M so for 6 years he gets $1.92M but the Twins will pay 9% interest on the $11.5 for each year. Making his annual payback $2.84M through 2026. That's about $5.5M more than if he just takes $23M in 2018.

     

    Mauer's New Deal:

     

    2018: $11.5M

    2019: $8M

    2020: $8M

    2021: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2022: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2023: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2024: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2025: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2026: $2.84M Deferred Payment

     

    2) Now I would use that freed up $11.5M and front end load the Darvish deal. Here is how I would structure it:

     

    6 Years $156M overall contract

     

    Year 1: $36M

    Year 2: $27M

    Year 3: $27M

    Year 4: $22M Opt Out Option after 2021

    Year 5: $22M

    Year 6: $22M

     

    In this Scenario the Twins are basically paying Darvish $27M + $9M of Mauer's freed up money in year 1 (2018). Then in years 2-3 he is back to making most likely "market" value of $27M. Year 4-6 his contract value declines but he has already made that up in year one.

     

    However, if he outperforms a $22M/year pitcher in 2021 he has the option to opt out after the season. Darvish would be 35 then and this could be 50/50 move at this point.

     

    I really think if Mauer would be on board with this deal, it would make signing Darvish a reality. Who doesn't turn down $156M guaranteed over 6 years with nearly 25% of it paid in year 1? The only way that is beat is if someone else comes out with 5 years / $175M or something outrageous.

    Here is how I would devise a way to get Darvish and it is somewhat outside the box.

     

    1) I would go to Mauer and ask him honestly how badly he wants to win a world series with the Twins. I renegotiate his deal.

     

    In 2018 Mauer defers half his contract, making it $11.5M for 2018. However, the Twins will then offer an additional 2 year $16M deal for 2019-2020. Beginning in 2021-2016 the Twins will pay back Joe his remaining $11.5M so for 6 years he gets $1.92M but the Twins will pay 9% interest on the $11.5 for each year. Making his annual payback $2.84M through 2026. That's about $5.5M more than if he just takes $23M in 2018.

     

    Mauer's New Deal:

     

    2018: $11.5M

    2019: $8M

    2020: $8M

    2021: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2022: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2023: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2024: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2025: $2.84M Deferred Payment

    2026: $2.84M Deferred Payment

     

    2) Now I would use that freed up $11.5M and front end load the Darvish deal. Here is how I would structure it:

     

    6 Years $156M overall contract

     

    Year 1: $36M

    Year 2: $27M

    Year 3: $27M

    Year 4: $22M Opt Out Option after 2021

    Year 5: $22M

    Year 6: $22M

     

    In this Scenario the Twins are basically paying Darvish $27M + $9M of Mauer's freed up money in year 1 (2018). Then in years 2-3 he is back to making most likely "market" value of $27M. Year 4-6 his contract value declines but he has already made that up in year one.

     

    However, if he outperforms a $22M/year pitcher in 2021 he has the option to opt out after the season. Darvish would be 35 then and this could be 50/50 move at this point.

     

    I really think if Mauer would be on board with this deal, it would make signing Darvish a reality. Who doesn't turn down $156M guaranteed over 6 years with nearly 25% of it paid in year 1? The only way that is beat is if someone else comes out with 5 years / $175M or something outrageous.

    Interesting idea. However aren't teams required to make a "qualifying offer" once a player has spent 6+ years with a team and that offer is the average of the top 125 players in the game (well over 2.84 million)? Maybe this only applies to free agents and not contract renegotiations, would be interesting to find out. I gotta imagine the players union would freak out on a deal like this. Edited by laloesch
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    The Twins don't need to worry about deferring money on ANY contracts, they make plenty of money and would make plenty of money even with signing Darvish, Mauer (in the future) and other Free Agents.

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    1) I would go to Mauer and ask him honestly how badly he wants to win a world series with the Twins.  I renegotiate his deal.

    My guess is that you'd have to be really careful not to run afoul of the players' union. A lot of the safeguards they have negotiated are to prevent teams from putting a strong-arm on players to give back anything. While your proposal may seem favorable to both sides, I could foresee some hidden obstacle very easily.

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    Yeah my thoughts exactly.  Drew Smyly  :confused:   Doesn't Pineda fit that bill already?  Doesn't matter now as the Cubs signed him, but still pretty weird. 

     

    Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but the Cubs signed Smyly before the Twins signed Pineda.  

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    Yeah my thoughts exactly.  Drew Smyly  :confused:   Doesn't Pineda fit that bill already?  Doesn't matter now as the Cubs signed him, but still pretty weird.

     

    The Twins were in on Smyly before the Cubs signed Smyly and before the Twins signed Pineda. That's what that says. They pivoted to Pineda once Smyly chose the Cubs.
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    The Twins were in on Smyly before the Cubs signed Smyly and before the Twins signed Pineda. That's what that says. They pivoted to Pineda once Smyly chose the Cubs.

    Ah i see. I missed that.

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    My guess is that you'd have to be really careful not to run afoul of the players' union. A lot of the safeguards they have negotiated are to prevent teams from putting a strong-arm on players to give back anything. While your proposal may seem favorable to both sides, I could foresee some hidden obstacle very easily.

    Since Mauer has been a Twin the value of the Twins franchise has gone up hundreds of millions of dollars (not saying it's due to him) but his answer to ownership should be 'why don't you just spend more money if you want to win a championship'?

    I'm getting pretty tired myself of this 'aww shucks, small market club' that some people gobble up hook line and sinker.

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    Of course Mauer would probably do that. But, why would the Pohlad's, who I believe made their money in banking, pay 9% interest?

    I don't even know if this idea is within the bounds of the CBA, but the reason you would pay 9% is because anything less Mauer could realistically achieve on his own.  9% guaranteed is about 1% above the adjusted average return on the market since the S&P's inception.  Trust me, the Pohlad's are making more than that return.

     

     

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    Since Mauer has been a Twin the value of the Twins franchise has gone up hundreds of millions of dollars (not saying it's due to him) but his answer to ownership should be 'why don't you just spend more money if you want to win a championship'?

    I'm getting pretty tired myself of this 'aww shucks, small market club' that some people gobble up hook line and sinker.

    Obviously, just paying Darvish more than any other team offers is the best way to get him.  And I agree with your statement to spend  money to win.  BUT, this team has never operated that way.  If they truly are in on Darvish and they aren't completely opening up the checkbook, outside the box ideas to fund 2018 would need to occur.

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    I don't even know if this idea is within the bounds of the CBA, but the reason you would pay 9% is because anything less Mauer could realistically achieve on his own. 9% guaranteed is about 1% above the adjusted average return on the market since the S&P's inception. Trust me, the Pohlad's are making more than that return.

    Adjusted average since inception is not the same thing as a GUARANTEED rate over 5 years.

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    Adjusted average since inception is not the same thing as a GUARANTEED rate over 5 years.

    I know.  I think we are agreeing, but I am not sure.  I would rather have guaranteed 9% rate over 5 years, rather than risk market declines or bad investment decisions.  But 

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    I know. I think we are agreeing, but I am not sure. I would rather have guaranteed 9% rate over 5 years, rather than risk market declines or bad investment decisions. But

    Yeah, that's my point. It's a no brainer guaranteed investment. That should give you pause to wonder why the other side would consider that.

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    LENIII says the Twins know that if they want to sign Darvish, they will need to offer him the biggest contract in team history. ("Club record offer" is how he describes it.) Does he mean in terms of total dollars? Mauer signed for 8/184 in 2010.

     

    Early estimates for Darvish were around 6/140, but if Darvish is demanding close to $200 million, at that price we gotta let him go somewhere else and not let the door hit him on the way out, right?

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    LENIII says the Twins know that if they want to sign Darvish, they will need to offer him the biggest contract in team history. ("Club record offer" is how he describes it.) Does he mean in terms of total dollars? Mauer signed for 8/184 in 2010.

    Early estimates for Darvish were around 6/140, but if Darvish is demanding close to $200 million, at that price we gotta let him go somewhere else and not let the door hit him on the way out, right?

    I would assume he's talking about club record FA dollars, as that's what was written in a previous article before today's. So basically old and obvious news. Because of course he's going to get a bigger contract than Santana did.

     

    From an article five days ago:

    "How the Twins react when/if Darvish asks for six years and $140 million-$150 million — which would easily be a club record for a free agent — will be the test of their willingness to dive into the deep waters of free agency to add top talent."

     

    Again the words club record mentioned. I think in the article today, it was implied that he meant FA dollars based on this article. And I know there was one other which directly mentioned the Santana contract. So I'm 99% sure he did not mean 200 million.

    Edited by Twins33
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    Either that, or they feel they are out completely.
    (which imho could be a blessing)

    Yeah ... just not sure what 'mum' means, but it doesn't sound like the Cubs are all that close on Darvish, either, but who knows. When that item was tweeted that the Cubs had a deal, Darvish was pretty quick to tweet back 'Fake News' so ... 

     

    Meh ... just can't worry about it any, not that I have. Out of my control. But speculation can be fun.

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    Hmm ... wonder if that means they are close to something?

     

    I recall similar words being said deep into the Dozier rumors last year. That led to nothing, which was probably a good thing.

     

    I want Darvish so I hope it's not a similar result.

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    I would assume he's talking about club record FA dollars, as that's what was written in a previous article before today's. So basically old and obvious news. Because of course he's going to get a bigger contract than Santana did.

    From an article five days ago:

    "How the Twins react when/if Darvish asks for six years and $140 million-$150 million — which would easily be a club record for a free agent — will be the test of their willingness to dive into the deep waters of free agency to add top talent."

    Again the words club record mentioned. I think in the article today, it was implied that he meant FA dollars based on this article. And I know there was one other which directly mentioned the Santana contract. So I'm 99% sure he did not mean 200 million.

    Thanks for the clarification. I am leaning towards "not interested" in Darvish, especially if he wants to drag this negotiation out through mid-January. Sounds like Gerrit Cole could be acquired for less, and sooner, and Berrios might be better than Darvish after a couple more years anyway.
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    The Twins made that statement in the past about their yearly revenue. They haven't had a similar 1-time payout since 1998 when the Diamondbacks and the Rays came into the league and everyone got $10 million. I would argue that unless they have a significant 1-time capital project (minor league facilities, international facilities, IT infrastructure, etc...) that there is not a valid reason for them to apply the 50% rule to this money and it should be available for this purpose.

    They could earmark that money towards paying off the stadium. Paying the tax payers off early creates goodwill and creates more profit by eliminating an ongoing expense.

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