Twins 3, Angels 5: Angels Comeback, Win on Walk-off

Dick Bremer in the bottom of the 11th with Ward at the plate: “Pagan is averaging one and a half strikeouts per inning pitched.”

I turned to my wife and with much sarcasm said: “Yeah, ok, so that’s the good news. The bad news he’s averaging giving up one dinger per inning pitched as well.”

Two pitches later - LOL.

So hard to waste an outing like that by Bundy - he pitched his heart out. Claps for him.

Btw, here’s a riddle. How do you make sure the Twins don’t score a run in an inning? Answer: have them get a man on second with no outs. 

10 hits, 6 walks, a hit batsman, and 2 ghost runners equal 3 runs.  Take away the solo home run and you have 18 base runners, add in 3 stolen bases, and come out with 2 runs.  Frustrating.

As an aside:  a few days ago I started some talk about why we don't use the IBB more often as part of game strategy in these extra innings situations.  When you are the visiting team and are tied in the bottom of the inning with the ghost runner put at 2nd, the IBB sets up a force at every base and allows more options for the defense and that run doesn't mean anything anyway.   I was answered, for the most part, with the game has changed today and strike outs are the goal, not potential double plays.  Go at the hitters and try for the strike out.  And that appears to be our strategy pretty much throughout this season.  Today, we have the ghost runner on 2nd and the clean up hitter leading off.  Behind him, the bottom 5 of their order is really weak, and setting up a force at every base sounds like a reasonable strategy.  We pitch to the clean up hitter and.........wait for it...........he walks us off.  Now, I know it is easy to look at this in hind sight, but I was wondering, again, in the moment why we weren't doing it tonight.  It is not the first time this year one could question the in game strategy.  Maybe it is just me.    

Alas, our BP appears to be weak tomorrow as well, having used Doran and and Lopez back to back with a fair amount of pitches.  They likely will be considered unavailable, and with Archer not noted for his lengthy starts, the pen is going to be needed again.  Hopefully Archer will put us in as good a shape as Mahle and Bundy did.  

15 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

he’s averaging giving up one dinger per inning pitched as well.”

Two pitches later - LOL.

Well, it's 10 HR over 41 and a third, but it sure as hell feels like it.   ?

15 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

So hard to waste an outing like that by Bundy - he pitched his heart out. Claps for him.

Twins fans should be glad he's here, and at 65 pitches, they should clamor for a sixth inning. This bullpen does not have enough talent in it to get 12 outs every damn day.

Was it ill-advised for Gordon to dive for that ball?  If he fields it on a hop, the tying run holds at third.

Losing games like last night's - blowing a winnable game in the 9th, wasting scoring opportunities, etc - are the worst kinds of losses in baseball. Every fan has to watch their team blow a game like this once in a while, it's part of the game and part of being a fan. Being a tride-and-true fan means that sometimes the rug gets pulled out from under you, but you come back and live to fight another day.

But with the 2022 Twins this kind of thing happens twice a week. It's not even newsworthy when they blow games like this, it's become so commonplace. 

How much more of this can fans take? At what point does thinking about Gopher football, or Vikings, T-Wolves, or Wild pre-season games become a more rewarding pastime? 

Typical result from a team that will finish .500 and 3rd place in the division. 

Kudos to Bundy. Should have went 6 or 7 and quite possibly even more. Will never get the chance with the current Manager who's in love with his imploding bullpen. Offense is what it is, pathetic. Can't get more than 2 guys to hit in the same game when it counts. Archer for 4 innings today and 6 relievers. Use the get-away lineup today and rest Buxton, Correa and Arraez. Gotta stick to the "Plan".

23 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

That was the answer you presupposed when you asked your question, not the answer you were given. The intentional walk is still very much an available strategy — but it is situation-dependent. You still need to figure out the best way to get 3 outs too, and sometimes that may mean pitching to guys like Jake Cave or Tim Beckham rather than setting up force plays.

I seem to remember giving two separate situations then, and I surely gave a separate one today.  And the one today involved us issuing the IBB, not the opposition, and using it to pitch to their version of Cave (or at least a lesser batter than the clean up hitter on their team).  More than one person told me going for the strike out is better then, and I am wondering if we felt that way last night.  Either way, it didn't work for them last time, and it didn't work for us last night.  Maybe we should try it now and then.  

7 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I seem to remember giving two separate situations then, and I surely gave a separate one today.  And the one today involved us issuing the IBB, not the opposition, and using it to pitch to their version of Cave (or at least a lesser batter than the clean up hitter on their team).  More than one person told me going for the strike out is better then, and I am wondering if we felt that way last night.  Either way, it didn't work for them last time, and it didn't work for us last night.  Maybe we should try it now and then.  

Also you have to consider who your pitcher is. The batter is their clean up hitter, a guy that can hit home The batters that came after him are no good, much less likely to hit home runs . Pagan is likely to give a beach ball down the middle that can be a home run. I think the situation was for an IBB. 

What a soft soap article this is.  The bottom line is the bullpen blew it AGAIN.  Pagan blew it AGAIN. I believe the bullpen this year is directly responsible for 24 losses.  I'm sure someone could check it out and get the exact number.  The article failed to emphasize Duran gave up a homer.  Yes it just barely cleared the fence but it was a terrible pitch.  Why did Lopez twice have hitters at 0-2 and gave up the tying runs.  Yes you can perhaps blame Gordon for not knocking the ball down but Lopez blew it for the second time in 4 starts.  Pagan?  He was lucky not to lose the game in the 10th due to a nice play by Buxton and poor Angel baserunning.  The claim that managements plan is working with Buxton is clearly a joke.  He is hitting in the low 200s and has struck out in over 34% of his at bats.  Clearly not working.  He's always hurt, his 27 Homer's are the only positive he has going.  What about our great manager?  He's one of the poorest in baseball IMO.  Bottom line if you insist on only allowing starters go 4 or 5 innings you better have a great bullpen not a minor league one like the Twins. Keeping Kepler in the lineup in key situations and in an 0 for 27 slump is foolish. 

I'll state the obvious.  Can we just DFA Pagan already?  Having him still on the team at this point is an insult to our collective intelligence.  Then again, Baldelli's in-game decision-making is also often an insult to our collective intelligence.  

Great job by Bundy which deserved the win over his old team. Leading 3-0 going into the 8th you'd think that Duran/ Lopez would nail down that victory but surprizingly they did not against the lowly Angels (I guess they're human) resulting in a Pagan's appearance.

Great to see Buxton make that great catch & Correa, Arraez, Polanco & Sanchez hitting, yet only producing 3 runs, hope they continue along w/ Buxton to caught on fire for the big push.

Archer has always given his all which has given us quality innings until he runs out of gas. As the season continues I expect constant improvement. Today I expect a repeat of his last game, paired again with Sands in long relief (hope for a repeat performance) & Fulmer to close. That should be good enough for the win if the offense cooperates with a few runs.

Bullpen blows it again.  Pagan blows it again.  Why is he still on the team?  Twins went o-14 with runners in scoring position.  They struck out 15 times.  We have a manager with very few managing skills.  If his computer and spread sheets weren't available he would have to forfeit the game.  He is totally incapable of in game managing and adjustments.  Pagan should go and Baldelli should go with him.

The irony is I have a warning point for personal attacks because I sarcastically called Baldelli a made up version of his name. The irony is I like Baldelli. I like him a lot. The Twins did not lose last night because of Baldelli. They lost because in a tight game their best relief pitchers failed. The game was tight because the offense didn't break out. The only complaint worth anything about my favorite manager was pulling Bundy with a low pitch count. I somewhat agree that last night might have been a good time to extend him. On the other hand the last time Mr Baldelli let Bundy go, Bundy got smacked around right quick. Calling for someone to be fired over and over again is soul crushing. 

2022 Twins.

Well Lopez has not fixed the BP and Pagan is still the same Mr Excitement that he has been all season.  Bundy pitches really well and we pull him so we can burn some more BP arms- I won't even ask why - it is the Rocco way.  But look at the arms we used up and next Archer goes 4???? Fullmer, Sands, and Megill are the three unused arms left.  

I know many blame the offense - but with a three run lead in the eighth we should have won the game. 

This is the Angels.  Yes they have Ohtani, but 8 out of the 12 batters that they used hit less than 226

I'm with Whitey.  I think Lopez will be just fine.  He's talented.  But Rocco is one of the worst managers I've ever seen due to his complete reliance on HR's to score runs.  He doesn't steal bases.  He doesn't hit and run.  He doesn't bunt.  When he does bunt, his players cannot execute.  Rocco managed teams are incapable of manufacturing runs.  It's why we're so impotent in extra inning situations.  If a team gets that ghost-runner from 2nd to 3rd with one or zero outs it puts incredible pressure on the defense.  Again, Lopez will be fine.  He will bounce back.  Pagan has been an unmitigated disaster.  Just like Colome last year.  Rocco is Rocco.  I'd love to see Paul Molitor come back.  But I know that's not happening.  

2 hours ago, bighat said:

Losing games like last night's - blowing a winnable game in the 9th, wasting scoring opportunities, etc - are the worst kinds of losses in baseball. Every fan has to watch their team blow a game like this once in a while, it's part of the game and part of being a fan. Being a tride-and-true fan means that sometimes the rug gets pulled out from under you, but you come back and live to fight another day.

But with the 2022 Twins this kind of thing happens twice a week. It's not even newsworthy when they blow games like this, it's become so commonplace. 

How much more of this can fans take? At what point does thinking about Gopher football, or Vikings, T-Wolves, or Wild pre-season games become a more rewarding pastime? 

Last night was it for me.  In spite of paying for MLB Extra Inning package to get Bally Sports North here in the KC area, I'm DONE investing any more time and energy into this team.  Will devote my interest--yes a glutton for punishment---to other endeavors, which include the Vikings.  As a loyal fan for 40+ years, I will move on and hope ( a very dangerous thing) for better results next year.  My life would be so much calmer if I didn't like sports.

It was a very discouraging loss ...

There goes my 10 game winning streak they needed and I wanted ...

As a passionate fan my enthusiasm is waning  ....

No killer instinct in the players approach to hitting  , no motivation from the manager to fire up the team ,,, if the plan isn't working it is  time to change the plan ...  

As the game was getting late and we had a 3-0 lead I was thinking of the three consecutive  shutouts the twins pitched  against Kansas city in 2004 , (  radke  , lohse and Santana  )  , I was getting excited about another possible consecutive shutout  of course with multiple pitchers  , bundy should have been  allowed to pitch further into the game ,,, he bulldogged  ....

What Rocco's spread sheet don't tell him is , the more pitchers you have pitch in the game , the more likely  one or more are going to have a bad night pitching  ...

Tough loss , a really tough loss 

At some point you have to just let the starter pitch. The bullpen isn't going to be perfect every single game

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

 not sure I can support this front office. 

If I was the owner , I would be questioning the leadership of this front office and manager , especially with the deadline trades of additions ( which has strengthened the bullpen  ) ...

Coaching has to change  and we know who they are , if no changes,   the front office is in jeopardy of losing their jobs of running operations at the end of 2023