Twins 2, Guardians 3 (10 Innings): Strong Pitching is Not Enough as Twins Fall to Guardians

So in a tight, extra innings game, only Contreras was available off the bench? Too many pitchers on the roster if only one guy is available off the bench and pitchers can go 3 or 4 days between appearances. 

10 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

So in a tight, extra innings game, only Contreras was available off the bench? Too many pitchers on the roster if only one guy is available off the bench and pitchers can go 3 or 4 days between appearances. 

Yep.  And to repeat what’s being said on Twitter a lot: why in God’s name was Buxton unavailable to pinch hit at all.  So weird- the playoffs are not a given so why do they act like they need to keep everyone healthy for it?

First, I think we’re better without early season Sano. Also, I’m really worried about Krilloff and Im not confident he will ever be back to normal with his wrist.
 

Im also not confident on Smeltzer being back in the rotation. He’s a Triple A guy until something drastic occurs. 

What a mess - On the radio that said it was a scheduled rest day for Buxton.  His appeared in 22 of 34 games - how much rest are we going to give him?  He certainly should have been able to swing the bat.  Is he injured again?  I am confused.  

Regarding Buxton, the prevailing wisdom seems to be "he can't get hurt if we don't play him". Either that or "we won't have to worry about the incentives in his contract if he's on the bench". He could've been the difference maker in this game, and needs to be out there everyday until he tells Rocco he can't go or needs a break.

Baldelli is a stiff for a manager and needs to go.  He's turning Buxton into a stiff.  Buxton had played 3 days in a row.  OMG I hope he's not too worn out.  You see nothing, absolutely nothing, will get in Baldellis system.  A scheduled day off after all the days off he's had?  How utterly ridiculous!  Then he won't even use him as a punch hitter.  Why is the bat to heavy for him?  Maybe he will get a splinter if he swings a bat.  He wouldn't use him because you don't mess with Baldellis system.  What a joke.  Buxton has already missed 12 of 34 games this year.  He doesn't need a day of rest after 3 days of "work".  And why does the stiff of a manager do it at home?  People pay good money to watch the Twins.  Many of them come to watch Buxton.  If he has to "rest" him for doing nothing at least do it on the road.    He has very poor in game management and lineups are strange.  Why for example do you take a player who the previous day went 2-4 and then sit him the next day even though its the same right/ lefty matchup.  Why was Lewis bunting not once but twice trying to bring the runner in from third.  Is Lewis a great bunter?  He may be a great player but not bunter.  He had only bunted once in his pro career.  That was in 2018.  Very odd decision by a very odd manager.  He manages like he doesn't care if they win or lose, as long as his system is in place.  Baldelli will cost this team any chance of a post season.  Baldelli has got to go.

Following up on Whitey, yes, the loss reflects on some intrinsic weaknesses in Rocco's game-time strategies, including:

1. The Twins lineup is badly depleted now with injuries to Correa, Larnach, and Sano - to name 3.  So why is their best hitter remaining, BB, kept out of the lineup, including even PH?  Just inexplicable in a close game with one of the 2 major competitors in the Div.  This is on Rocco and perhaps the FO if they are, indeed, calling the shots.  Quit babying our best player!  Games count now just as much as in Sept.

2. Rocco's ineptness is even more apparent in his bullpen usage last nite.  He blew thru our arguably 5 best relievers now, to leave Cotton the last arm remaining for extra innings.  Are Thielbar(15 pitches), Duffey(5), Smith(15), Pagan(9), and Duran(12) so fragile that they couldn't go longer?  With a runner on second to start extra innings, you want your best(and in the Twin's case, only) flamethrower for that inning.  I can see using Duran for the 9th with a save opportunity, but not a tie game.  Giving Duffey or Thielbar an extra inning would have allowed that, but alas we get Cotton - and the loss.

I know there are those on TD will accuse the writer of second guessing but Rocco's mismanagment of the pen last night is not a fluke.  We have seen it consistently during his stewardship.  He babies his players to the point of absurdity.  Not that he is the only one to blame.  It was obvious to most of us this team badly needed a second closer alternative this offseason - and that was before trading Rogers!!  We got a good pickup in Smith but that was it.  While Duran has emerged as a potential closer, Rocco(and maybe the FO) are too risk averse to hand him the job, preferring instead to use the closer by committee.  With the current quality of RPs, can we still afford to gamble in every tight game.  Annoint Duran the closer and see how that goes.  There is no one else on the roster who is even close.

With a now winnable Central Division Title possible, does anyone still think Rocco has the smarts to steer this team to playoff territory?  To this observer, the clear answer is NO.  Replace him with a more demanding, experienced guy with a modicum of baseball savvy.

I like Rocco.

Hard not to root for DaSmeltz. 

I haven't been nearly as negative about Baldelli as many people, BUT......

I wonder what players like Cal Ripken, Joe Morgan, Ernie Banks, etc. would think about being told to take a day off after just a few days of playing.  When I was still young enough to be playing sports (hockey, softball, and golf until my mid-70s), I always felt that the more I played, the better I played.  I would hate coming to Target Field every day just to be told to ride the pines once or twice a week.  IMHO, the "scheduled" day off philosophy is something that sort of sounds like a good idea but really isn't.  If a player feels like he should sit, he should be professional enough to tell the manager.

Smeltzer & co. kept us in the game. He should have been called up from the start of season to help out in long relief. From ST Smeltzer shown he's ready this season, forget about the time he struggled.

I was impressed that w/o our main SS & CF in the line-up we still competed. Other years we'd get clobbered

We've seen this movie before: Twins don't hit, lose ballgame. Bieber just another great pitcher who this team can't touch I guess. Wonder what they're going to do in the playoffs against good teams' 1-2-3 starters in the first round?

So Buxton sits 3x a week now even if he's healthy?

Nice to see Smeltzer step up.

3 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

He certainly should have been able to swing the bat.  Is he injured again?  I am confused.  

It is confusing, yes. But I think Buxton is injured. He seemed very defensive about his earlier hip soreness, and I think they're taking it very slow. His pre-game hitting regimen seems pretty involved, and it helps him ramp up. When Buxton has an off day, he has an off day. Full stop. A quick jump into the lineup won't work for his health.

I can see fans not liking, not agreeing with, or not understanding that approach, but I don't think Buxton will ever play more than 90 games a season. I think his contract is even structured to reflect this, He's had a career's worth of injuries, and those injuries are literally the only reason he's still a Minnesota Twin. I think we all have to accept that at this point.

On the plus side, we have a great chance of winning in those 90 games. On the negative side, we're going to have games like this - where he could possibly have been the difference maker and wasn't available.

As for me? It's May. We had Smeltzer going against Bieber with no Correa. I think this one was pre-tagged for an L, and I'm glad we were able to make it close. Let's move on. 

3 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Baldelli is a stiff for a manager and needs to go.  He's turning Buxton into a stiff.  Buxton had played 3 days in a row.  OMG I hope he's not too worn out.  You see nothing, absolutely nothing, will get in Baldellis system.  A scheduled day off after all the days off he's had?  How utterly ridiculous!  Then he won't even use him as a punch hitter.  Why is the bat to heavy for him?  Maybe he will get a splinter if he swings a bat.  He wouldn't use him because you don't mess with Baldellis system.  What a joke.  Buxton has already missed 12 of 34 games this year.  He doesn't need a day of rest after 3 days of "work".  And why does the stiff of a manager do it at home?  People pay good money to watch the Twins.  Many of them come to watch Buxton.  If he has to "rest" him for doing nothing at least do it on the road.    He has very poor in game management and lineups are strange.  Why for example do you take a player who the previous day went 2-4 and then sit him the next day even though its the same right/ lefty matchup.  Why was Lewis bunting not once but twice trying to bring the runner in from third.  Is Lewis a great bunter?  He may be a great player but not bunter.  He had only bunted once in his pro career.  That was in 2018.  Very odd decision by a very odd manager.  He manages like he doesn't care if they win or lose, as long as his system is in place.  Baldelli will cost this team any chance of a post season.  Baldelli has got to go.

Thanks for the data on Lewis' bunting experience.  Would hope that he gets more work on it because even the best players may need to do so once in awhile.  Such a disappointing game.  Now need to get Ryan back on track today.

Understand those going to games and not seeing Buxton being disappointed.  Have a feeling that he is battling one or more injuries and didn't have a problem giving him a night off. 

Comments by the tv crew about the pen having only one leftie.  Why isn't Moran back up?  Or does he have to be down for X days and isn't past that requirement?

Dustin Seltzer is a bad man!!

3 hours ago, wabene said:

I like Rocco.

Just curious. Why?

A one run game and one of the best players on the planet doesn't even take his warm-ups off, This manager has to GO!!!

3 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

It is confusing, yes. But I think Buxton is injured. He seemed very defensive about his earlier hip soreness, and I think they're taking it very slow. His pre-game hitting regimen seems pretty involved, and it helps him ramp up. When Buxton has an off day, he has an off day. Full stop. A quick jump into the lineup won't work for his health.

I can see fans not liking, not agreeing with, or not understanding that approach, but I don't think Buxton will ever play more than 90 games a season. I think his contract is even structured to reflect this, He's had a career's worth of injuries, and those injuries are literally the only reason he's still a Minnesota Twin. I think we all have to accept that at this point.

On the plus side, we have a great chance of winning in those 90 games. On the negative side, we're going to have games like this - where he could possibly have been the difference maker and wasn't available.

As for me? It's May. We had Smeltzer going against Bieber with no Correa. I think this one was pre-tagged for an L, and I'm glad we were able to make it close. Let's move on. 

"As for me? It's May. We had Smeltzer going against Bieber with no Correa. I think this one was pre-tagged for an L, and I'm glad we were able to make it close. Let's move on."   

Wow.  Just.  Wow.  So because the game looked tough ON PAPER let's not try all that hard and just mail it in for all of the 23,000 suckers who made the mistake of paying money for a game that Rocco deemed unwinnable ON PAPER.  If that's the acceptable though process the fans allow the Twins to have why stop with benching Buxton?  Maybe let Sanchez try his luck out in Left Field since he played there a few times in Little League?  Maybe Jeffers can come out of the bullpen for the 7th inning?  

Maybe if the future the Twins can set up a promotion where games that pre-tagged as tough ON PAPER tickets can be 50% off.  Next time the Yankees or Dodgers or Astros come into town the Twins will allow you to come out and watch a wasted game, but.... you'll only pay $15 to do it!!!  

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

So wait....people are complaining that we used our best bullpen arms first and kept the other team from scoring as long as possible?

Serious?  Is that what you took from the comments??

1 hour ago, KnoblauchWasFramed said:

Wow.  Just.  Wow.  So because the game looked tough ON PAPER let's not try all that hard and just mail it in for all of the 23,000 suckers who made the mistake of paying money for a game that Rocco deemed unwinnable ON PAPER. 

Slow your roll there, partner.

My GUESS was that Rocco was trying to be strategic about where/when to use Buxton. Rocco's own comments seemed to refute this, indicating that Buxton's knee soreness made him a non-option for yesterday.

So there we all have it. No need to dial this up into the code-red outrage zone where dogs and cats live together and Jeffers comes out of the pen as a set-up man - the world's got plenty of that nonsense already. ?

4 hours ago, Epravens said:

Just curious. Why?

224–183 

He is a unique type character in the sports world personality wise and I appreciate individuals. 

He has an interesting backstory as a player, a little tragic and at one time was quite the player. I'm sure this gives him the gravitas and perspective players can relate to.

He comes from a good organization.

Pisano.

I like the new structure of the Twins front office and Rocco fits in well with it.

I don't like to complain all the time.

It's not all roses Eprav, his taste in music. Phish? C'mon man.

3 hours ago, wabene said:

224–183 

He is a unique type character in the sports world personality wise and I appreciate individuals. 

He has an interesting backstory as a player, a little tragic and at one time was quite the player. I'm sure this gives him the gravitas and perspective players can relate to.

He comes from a good organization.

Pisano.

I like the new structure of the Twins front office and Rocco fits in well with it.

I don't like to complain all the time.

It's not all roses Eprav, his taste in music. Phish? C'mon man.

Thank you for your response. Differing opinions make the world go 'round.