The Five Most Underrated Players in Twins History

I'd probably give a Shane Mack/Shannon Stewart for HM.

Oh this could be fun! The fWAR of 20 could be tough as it may eliminate a few good candidates and also provide homework some of us just don't want to do, LOL. I really like your initial list and would make a couple quick comments.

Mack: Really glad you mentioned him. He was just so good and did so much for the Twins in his limited time with them. Boy I wish we could have him, as he was, for another season or two.

Tovar: He was before my time, but I've read enough and heard enough to know who and what he is and did. He needs to be in the Twins HOF.

Koskie: We still lament, years later, about the concussions to Mauer and Morneau and what might have been, even though both remained quality ballplayers for a few years after the fact. But few mention Koskie. He was a virtual shell of himself and never really did recover. And it's a terrible shame because to those who watched him, he was beyond just good offensively and defensively.

Radke: I think he is simply undervalued, not forgotten by any means. He was just so consistent, and meant so much on some good and not so good teams. While he wouldn't qualify as a true ACE, he just took the ball and delivered time and again until his arm fell off.

Mauer: Making this simple as we have debated him already too often. He was a victim of circumstance, despite his greatness. It was never his fault his RBI numbers weren't what some wanted. You have to have guys on base. At times, he didn't have someone hitting behind him. He probably should have hit 1-2 much more in his career. Just because he was a strapping, athletic man doesn't mean he was born to be some 30HR power hitter. But so many wanted him to be that. It was never his fault, like Koskie, like Morneau, that concussions robbed him of some of his greatness.

In all my years watching baseball I've seen some truly great catchers. I've seen Bench, Boone, Fisk, Pena, Carter, Piazza, Rodriguez and others. Some were great defensively, some great offensively, some managed to be both. There was a stretch of about 7yrs where Mauer did both, and put up numbers that are actually historical in the annals of MLB before he was injured. IMHO, he should be in the HOF. He may end up being the Oliva equivalent at catcher, which would be unfortunate.

I would include Knoblauch and Gagne for sure. Not sure about fWAR vs WAR...these things confuse me...but both had over 20+ WAR in their careers.

I think we sometimes forget about Knoblauch because of his late career finish with the Yankees, and we dismiss Gagne because his offense was only OK, but each was a stalwart for many years.

All good choices. I think of a couple of G-Men (Gaetti and Gagne) asunderrated although they won three championships combined for the Twins. 

 

Four of the five were position players. A couple more pitchers could get consideration. Jim Perry is one that comes to mind. Kevin Tapani is another that comes to mind.

Sort of feel like Tapani was Radke before Radke came along. Very consistent and a stalwart for a few years.

Roy Smalley... Matt Lawton... Fun list to think about...

Two of my favorite all timers. The precursor to the modern day offensive SS and the beginning of the "soul patrol".

Smalley is a definite add. By OP context, much of a fan as I am, career WAR would leave Lawton out. But underrated, yes.

I'm all for tovar. He just did so many things on the field, on the bench, with his attitude. He was a spark that ignited the great twins teams of the '60s. I'm not sure war is the measure for the question you've asked. I would even venture to say that Nick Punto might belong in this discussion. Radtke during his time gained accolades. Maybe Dave Goltz belongs in the pitcher discussion.

Tovar for sure. Absolute great player. Tapani is also a good candidate.

Not underrated but favorites, Luis Tiant and Vic Power.

Interesting, I like the list but I would say a key indicator of under-rated would be $ per fwar. Mauer would drop off the list based on career numbers.

Certainly Gagne, Gaetti and Tovar but also Al Worthington, Camilo Pascual & Dave Boswell.

Dave Goltz - pretty good pitcher on some not so good teams.

Just my own take.   I have always thought Mack was overlooked.   His career OPS as a Twin was better than Puckett's.   I think Radke has always been valued exactly as he was.   A good durable pitcher.   I would take him off the list.  Goltz was much the same pitcher but no one really talks about him.    Koske would be on top of my list.   I just don't remember him being as good as his numbers but his numbers were really good.   I don't know about Mauer.   He was great and people knew it and then he was just ok and people knew it.   Tapani doesn't qualify but he had the best ERA, by far the best WHIP   and the best OPS+ of any of the regulars on the 91 team. Rick Aguillera  honorable mention.     My list 1.  Koskie  2.  Goltz  3.  Tobar  4.  Kaat

Honorable mention goes to Nick PUnto.    Most fans here would have guessed his WAR as a Twin at somewhere around -70 based on comments while he was here.  It was actually +10 so his spread of 80 is by far the biggest.

I'm not intimately familiar with Goltz, but he was a strong candidate for sure. More fWAR than Viola in less IP. I also saw Kaat mentioned above. I didn't include him and he was never a consideration as I don't think there's much underrated about his track record. Tons of awards, second highest fWAR in team history.

I think Kaat was probably appreciated in his time.   I just don't know if he is remembered in the same vein.     For second highest fWAR he just is never talked about much on these boards.    Carew, Killebrew, Allison, Oliva and yes, even Tovar are brought up way more often.

To me, under-rated is a guy who is better (more valuable) than his numbers indicate...particularly the offensive numbers. Guys who had qualities not necessarily captured in many of the numbers...particularly the 'averages'. Qualities like defensive flexibility, good/smart on the bases, ability to perform in big moments, great durability/availability, defensive quality/consistency. This list comes off more like popularity vs numbers.

Mauer and Koskie are not those guys for me...to me, they're better examples of players that were exactly as good as their numbers would indicate.

Tovar, Gladden, Pierzynski...I'd probably go with Gagne as an all-timer.

And while Mack certainly served a useful role with the Twins in the early 90s, it's easy IMO to argue that he was actually NOT as good as his numbers would indicate. His numbers are based on a relatively small period of time where he demolished left-handed pitching. Not the most valuable skill for a guy that played primarily a corner outfield spot. He actually platooned for a significant period with the Twins. In the outfield, he had a legendarily weak arm (early career injury contributed). At age 30,  he OPS'd .966 in the major leagues. The Twins let him go...and the highest bidder was the Giants. The Yomiuri Giants.

Fun article, but I am not going to look up fwar for players I think of, if they do not meet the number, so sorry.  First, comments on the list in the article.  I agree with Mack and Tovar and Koskie for sure.  I think Radke was not underrated, at least not by Twins fans.  If he was by national media it was because he was never a media guy and just wanted to fish when he was not playing.  

I am going to say something very controversial, as all things are when it comes to Joe.  I think he was overrated in areas of his game and underrated in others.  The problem with Joe and his underrated is that people wanted him to be something he was never going to be.  That being a power hitter, run producer, and leader.  He was overrated as a defensive catcher, he won gold gloves because he could hit and was not terrible as a defensive catcher.  However, when you look at him as a catcher he could throw guys out and control baserunning, although he should have tried to throw behind runners.  He was not good at blocking pitches in dirt and would let plenty of wild pitches past him he should not have.  

That being said, he was one of the best pure average and on-base guys the Twins have ever had.  The Twins always put him the 3 hole, when he should have been in the 2 hole or even the lead off spot, but he was managed by people that said best "hitter" bats 3 hole even though Joe never fit that spot.  Joe would frustrate me so much in his lack of situational decision making as a hitter.  Not sure if it was all him, or leadership telling him, but he would constantly do things that were counter to producing runs.  Mainly taking strikes when runner was on third with less than 2 out and eventually walk, when he could have hit the strike to try and produce the run and not leave it to someone behind him.  

Now that my Joe vent is over, he was still one of the best hitters of all time and just because he was not a power hitter he still was great, and just lacked the personality stars have.  

My number one underrated players, from the 2000 era, is Nick Punto.  He was amazing on defense, and just because he did not put huge numbers on offense he did not get the gred he deserved.  When he was hitting well the team was winning.  He would never drive fear in the other teams, but when Nick was going well the team was winning. 

Bob Allison comes to mind for me. 31.1 fWAR as a Twin (removing all the Senators seasons, though I'm fine including them) with a terrific run in the prime of his career. Feels like he's become the forgotten man from those great Twins clubs in the 60's. Heck of a player, a big thumper in the middle of the lineup.

Joe Mauer.....the “most underrated” Twin in history??

The guy that literally the entire fan base couldn’t stop talking about (good or bad) for 20 years??

The universally accepted view of “underrated” would be a guy who was ignored but did pretty well in reality.  Everyone knew how good Joe Mauer was......they just expected more out of him.

Unappreciated?  Maybe.

Underrated?  No.

To me, under-rated is a guy who is better (more valuable) than his numbers indicate...particularly the offensive numbers. Guys who had qualities not necessarily captured in many of the numbers...particularly the 'averages'. Qualities like defensive flexibility, good/smart on the bases, ability to perform in big moments, great durability/availability, defensive quality/consistency. This list comes off more like popularity vs numbers.

 

Mauer and Koskie are not those guys for me...to me, they're better examples of players that were exactly as good as their numbers would indicate.

 

Tovar, Gladden, Pierzynski...I'd probably go with Gagne as an all-timer.

 

And while Mack certainly served a useful role with the Twins in the early 90s, it's easy IMO to argue that he was actually NOT as good as his numbers would indicate. His numbers are based on a relatively small period of time where he demolished left-handed pitching. Not the most valuable skill for a guy that played primarily a corner outfield spot. He actually platooned for a significant period with the Twins. In the outfield, he had a legendarily weak arm (early career injury contributed). At age 30,  he OPS'd .966 in the major leagues. The Twins let him go...and the highest bidder was the Giants. The Yomiuri Giants.

I am sure someone can go into specific details, but that is not how I remember it. I don't remember the Twins letting him go. I remember him going to Japan because of the strike. And that killed me.

I think that Brian Harper was under rated

Jaques Jones, another of the Soul Patrol, had like 7 - 8 really nice seasons and then just disappeared.

I am sure someone can go into specific details, but that is not how I remember it. I don't remember the Twins letting him go. I remember him going to Japan because of the strike. And that killed me.

Crazy disappearance, 1994 the strike shortened season Mack hit .333 with a .966 OPS and then was gone. Dude could hit.

Not many pitchers mentioned on here, but one that comes to mind for me is Kyle Lohse; he probably had a better career away from Minnesota than with Minnesota. But he just seemed to keep pitching forever and was always decent. Had some good seasons for St Louis and Milwaukee.